Needham Girls HS Hazing

[Unregistered]

What if the kids who reportedly were hazed have no issue with what occurred as they do not feel it was a bullying or hazing behavior. What if the parents and school have blown this whole thing way out of proportion with the hysteria surrounding bullying and their knee jerk reaction. What if the girls involved actually support the elimination of these suspensions. Maybe the bullying going on here is all this misinformation and crucification of this team before the facts are clear, and is really now becoming more the WBZ and school doing a hatchet job on these kids, the team and the coach without knowing what really happened?

Wow! All you care about is whether your top players get to play in a game?? Brush it all off as nothing? It's gone too far for that.

[Unregistered]

What if the kids who reportedly were hazed have no issue with what occurred as they do not feel it was a bullying or hazing behavior. What if the parents and school have blown this whole thing way out of proportion with the hysteria surrounding bullying and their knee jerk reaction. What if the girls involved actually support the elimination of these suspensions. Maybe the bullying going on here is all this misinformation and crucification of this team before the facts are clear, and is really now becoming more the WBZ and school doing a hatchet job on these kids, the team and the coach without knowing what really happened?

I'm sorry, once the dog leash was placed around a players neck and a pie touched her face there is absolutely no question that this has become an act of hazing. And the opinion of those who were the subject of the act has no bearing on the outcome. This is not even close to being a grey area.

[Unregistered]

I've had two kids go and play recently- one D3 and one D1 - no such thing happened to them. Perhaps you are speaking of a longer time ago?

Nope. Current college kids. Maybe your kids just didn't tell you because they were afraid you'd go running to the school? I don't know, but I've heard of it happening at all other schools I've known kids to play sports at. It's not called "hazing". It's called "orientation" by the team. It's basically stupid stuff - running around with "granny panties" over their clothes, eating something disgusting (but not poisonous or harmful) or something like that. Again, the freshmen aren't forced to participate, but most do.

I don't know anything about the Needham situation, but I'm wondering the same thing as another poster - how do the freshmen girls feel about this? Was this all in fun and they laughed about it or did they feel humiliated?

[Unregistered]

You know, I hate to break it to you people, but if your daughter plans to go on to play soccer in college, they arre going to experience some sort of hazing as a freshman. It is not condoned by the schools or the coach, but it does happen. I had 3 kids go to 3 different colleges (D1-D3) and they all experienced it. Nothing was done to harm them, though they did do some humiliating things - but my kids laughed about it. If the freshman does not want to participate, they are not forced to, but the ones who do are more accepted by the upper classmen. I'm not saying it's right - I'm saying it happens.

Yes, it does. In may ways, shapes and forms, it takes place in many parts of adolescent and adult life.

I assume that after a week and a half, the upperclassmen have admitted that they hazed the freshmen. So, innocent until proven guilty kind of goes out the window.

But...in this day and age, with video cameras watching our every move, with media wolves dying for stories like this one....what is wrong with this coach for not being completely and totally clear with his upperclassmen - NO HAZING! It should have been addressed at the very first day of practice.

The kids in question are old enough to know better, too. You can't take them off the hook and they deserve consequences for their actions. If I were a player on the team, I'd be pretty upset at my teammates for jeopardizing the season.

But the coach is just plain stupid for letting this happen. And he's even stupid-er for trying to cover it up.

JB

[Unregistered]

As the parent of a senior captain (for another school), I would be absolutely horrified if my daughter participated in or condoned this behavior.... in fact, I can't even imagine such a thing crossing her mind, in any way, shape or form. It is NOT inconsequential, fun, funny or "just a prank" and shame on the parents for pushing this into the courtroom. And for raising kids that would do such a thing. Am I being judgmental? Yes I am. Being a team leader (as a senior, captain or not) carries a lot of weight, and there is a right way and a wrong way to behave and build team cohesiveness. There is no gray area here.

Good point - we've heard a lot on various threads about the character traits that make for a good captain, and why certain kids are made captain. To hear about seniors behaving this way is disgusting. My daughter played with v. her freshman year in a private high school, and the freshmen were subjected to mild hazing (being obliged to do certain menial tasks, etc.). My daughter simply refused, and absolutely was excluded for her unwillingness to submit, but she felt she did the right thing. Unfortunately, not all kids will be able to withstand peer pressure and the pressure from upperclassmen.

On the boys side, the senior alpha male attitude can still be noted. Less so in smaller schools, I'd imagine, but it's there. It's a shame, as it's a self-perpetuating cycle.

[Unregistered]

What if the kids who reportedly were hazed have no issue with what occurred as they do not feel it was a bullying or hazing behavior. What if the parents and school have blown this whole thing way out of proportion with the hysteria surrounding bullying and their knee jerk reaction. What if the girls involved actually support the elimination of these suspensions. Maybe the bullying going on here is all this misinformation and crucification of this team before the facts are clear, and is really now becoming more the WBZ and school doing a hatchet job on these kids, the team and the coach without knowing what really happened?

The fact that the children who reportedly were hazed , may have no issue isn't relevant.

If the act was committed, it is against the law, against the standards put in place for athletes, and the coach if applicable.

" Hysteria" is not the proper word to address the issue of bullying , and in this case hazing. Society has moved in the direction that it now considers such behavior irresponsible and it is not a desired element of children's lives. Any analogy with what goes on in college, is not sound. High School Freshman are children, College students are young adults. Bullying is a real problem, bigger than ever with the advent of the electronic messaging and social network.

The only "facts " that are clear, are that it did happen. That's enough to suspend the students and coach. Students in school are not subject to the same rights as they would be if this was not a co-curricular activity.

When one of my children was a Senior Captain on the College Soccer team, one of the Freshman's parents approached me to tell me how comforting it was to know that their wasn't any hazing tolerated. When I spoke to my child about the issue, it was said that the coach, who has been at the school for decades, strictly forbid that behavior.

That is what is expected by any rational thinking adult.

[Unregistered]

At the start of the 2010-2011 School Year:
• Ongoing Professional Development. School districts must establish and have in place the professional development provisions of the bullying law which requires that professional development be provided to all staff members, including, but not limited to, educators, administrators, school nurses, cafeteria workers, custodians, bus drivers, athletic coaches, advisors to extracurricular activities and paraprofessionals and must include, but not be limited to: (i) developmentally appropriate strategies to prevent bullying incidents; (ii) developmentally appropriate strategies for immediate, effective interventions to stop bullying incidents; (iii) information regarding complex interaction and power differential that can take place between and among a perpetrator, victim and witnesses to the bullying; (iv) research findings on bullying, including information about specific categories of students who have been shown to be particularly at risk for bullying in the school environment; (v)information on the incidence and nature of cyber-bullying; and (vi) internet safety issues as they relate to cyber-bullying. (s. 5(d); s. 15) Faculty and staff at each school must be trained annually on the Bullying Prevention and Intervention Plan applicable to the school. (s. 5(e)(2))

[Unregistered]

What if the kids who reportedly were hazed have no issue with what occurred as they do not feel it was a bullying or hazing behavior. What if the parents and school have blown this whole thing way out of proportion with the hysteria surrounding bullying and their knee jerk reaction. What if the girls involved actually support the elimination of these suspensions. Maybe the bullying going on here is all this misinformation and crucification of this team before the facts are clear, and is really now becoming more the WBZ and school doing a hatchet job on these kids, the team and the coach without knowing what really happened?

What if the "do not feel it was bullying or hazing"? Hmmm, it's fun to be dog collared and have pies thrown at you? What if "the girls actually support the elimination of these suspension"? Hmmm, consider the possibility that the girls are being "forced" (peer pressure, threats...) to recant. Consider the likliehood that they will be able to advance in the tournament without their Sr. starters. "Blown way out of proportion"? Evena knuckle dragging neandrethal is aware of how sensitive schools are to bullying and hazing over the last 10 years. It's part of the curriculum .

[Unregistered]

These girls have not been arrested for a violent crime.
.

Believe me, the Needham Policy Dept. and the Dist. Attorney's Office will be under quite a bit of pressure to bring charges up against the five players involved as well as the coach who had an obligation to come forward once he was made aware of the incident but failed to do so. Those who were the subject of the hazing will have no say in the matter although their testimony will be critical.

[Unregistered]

Wow! All you care about is whether your top players get to play in a game?? Brush it all off as nothing? It's gone too far for that.

Not from Needham so you are wrong as I have no vested interest here on who plays in what game. But I agree with you that this seems to have gone way too far, too quickly without people having the right infomation to draw their conclusions with. Typical of how our society works now with all the social networking sites and blogs that fire storm something before the facts can catch up. What about the kids who are being harmed with all this hysteria who had nothing to do with this, or the school not doing their due diligence first before jumping in the middle of this?

[Unregistered]

I'm sorry, once the dog leash was placed around a players neck and a pie touched her face there is absolutely no question that this has become an act of hazing. And the opinion of those who were the subject of the act has no bearing on the outcome. This is not even close to being a grey area.

Really? And you base this on your many years on the Superior Court Bench... right? Coaches are instructed in every MIAA school I know of to report anything that could be considered a violation of the Statute. Unlike many posters here, the thought on that is that we don't want coaches trying to interpret the law. Which is not quite as cut and dried as some might think. In that respect this coach was dead wrong for trying to handle it in-house and he is paying the price. But please stop making sweeping pronouncements about the guilt of these students. This is a crime, and they do deserve a presumption of innocense. As for the administrative remdies employed by the Principal, again lets wait and see what the Court says. My guess (as educated as it might be) is that the parents will lose.

[Unregistered]

What if the "do not feel it was bullying or hazing"? Hmmm, it's fun to be dog collared and have pies thrown at you? What if "the girls actually support the elimination of these suspension"? Hmmm, consider the possibility that the girls are being "forced" (peer pressure, threats...) to recant. Consider the likliehood that they will be able to advance in the tournament without their Sr. starters. "Blown way out of proportion"? Evena knuckle dragging neandrethal is aware of how sensitive schools are to bullying and hazing over the last 10 years. It's part of the curriculum .

I did not allow hazing during my years as a coach. However freshman did carry equipment etc to the field, water coolers, ice, etc. and were assigned various tasks by the Captains during practice. It was between the players but I kept an eye on it and the captains were clear in understanding that there would be no physical or mental intimidation of any kind.

Strictly speaking the Needham incident almost certainly falls short of a criminal act IMHO. However it does appear to mentally demeaning and not appropriate. There are other and better ways of getting a team to bond than dog leashes. The kids who say they were ok with the treatment they received may be saying it because they are smart enough to know that there may be repercussions down the road when the media and school spot lights are off of the incident. 4 years can be a long time in HS.....

I believe that both the coach and players should be suspended for at least a game but should not have any permanent blemish on their records. This incident falls short of being outrageous and is better classed as inappropriate.

- Cujo

[Unregistered]

Injunction denied

Sanity prevails!
http://boston.cbslocal.com/2010/11/0...ed-for-hazing/

[Unregistered]

I did not allow hazing during my years as a coach. However freshman did carry equipment etc to the field, water coolers, ice, etc. and were assigned various tasks by the Captains during practice. It was between the players but I kept an eye on it and the captains were clear in understanding that there would be no physical or mental intimidation of any kind.

Strictly speaking the Needham incident almost certainly falls short of a criminal act IMHO. However it does appear to mentally demeaning and not appropriate. There are other and better ways of getting a team to bond than dog leashes. The kids who say they were ok with the treatment they received may be saying it because they are smart enough to know that there may be repercussions down the road when the media and school spot lights are off of the incident. 4 years can be a long time in HS.....

I believe that both the coach and players should be suspended for at least a game but should not have any permanent blemish on their records. This incident falls short of being outrageous and is better classed as inappropriate.

- Cujo

If the facts bear out, I totally agree with this as well.

[Unregistered]

Really? And you base this on your many years on the Superior Court Bench... right? Coaches are instructed in every MIAA school I know of to report anything that could be considered a violation of the Statute. Unlike many posters here, the thought on that is that we don't want coaches trying to interpret the law. Which is not quite as cut and dried as some might think. In that respect this coach was dead wrong for trying to handle it in-house and he is paying the price. But please stop making sweeping pronouncements about the guilt of these students. This is a crime, and they do deserve a presumption of innocense. As for the administrative remdies employed by the Principal, again lets wait and see what the Court says. My guess (as educated as it might be) is that the parents will lose.

So a girl can get suspended for riding a horse to school on "Dress as a Knight Day" in Wenham and the Needham girls should be allowed to play