2011 Boys Soccer Verbal Commitments

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"It is appalling to think that a student would forego attending a college with an academic program perfectly suited to her needs in order to attend a school that scores 10 places higher in some guidebook, but I suppose it happens."

Excerpted from 2010 Annual State of the College Message
William D. Adams, President, Colby College

And the reason for the quote on this thread is...?

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And the reason for the quote on this thread is...?

Because there are parents (some have even posted in this very thread) and kids who chose a college solely on the prestige of it without regard to what kind of fit it is academically and socially.

Because there are people in this very thread who have bashed kids for not going to a D1 school to play soccer, choosing a school for reasons other than soccer.

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And the reason for the quote on this thread is...?

I posted the quote and someone else replied to your question in the post after you.

You've read through the thread (and other threads with similar content) and the relevance of the quote doesn't compute for you?

I thought it was quite germane. When we began the college process in earnest about a year or so ago during my kid's junior year I think we all had the naive thought that he most likely would choose the "best" school he could get into that also seemed a reasonable fit. For the sake of argument, let's say we viewed "best" in a conventional way (reputation, rankings, etc). As we approach the finish line over the next 2-3 weeks, it is possible that his final choice will end up being whatever that "best" school is among his options. But maybe not. And that is because the decision process is far more complicated than we imagined. A year ago we were not thinking about receiving offers of merit money from some schools. We went into the process thinking we would visit, compare, and he would decide between the places where he was accepted on equal footing so to speak (i.e. all things being equal which school rose to the top). But then you find out that there are not always equal comparisons. We (as I assume is true for some of you) are confronted with choices between very good schools where we'll be paying @55-58K a year with no financial relief vs. quite good enough schools where he's being offered 15-30K per year in merit money. The quite good enough schools look much better in that light, and we have no reason to believe that these schools won't provide plenty of challenge, room to grow, and if desired, very good graduate school opportunities. As a reference point, let's say by very good schools I'm referring to LACs ranked in #8-#35 range and by quite good enough schools ranked in the #36-#70 range.

Let's say DDay comes and his choice ultimately is between a school ranked at #13 (with no money) vs. #46 (with 20K). I'll be honest, when we open the news from #13 and see Accepted, that is going to feel damn good for both my kid and me. And it's possible there will be some particular reason that #13 wins the day. But I hope he doesn't make that decision based on what he thinks others think, or our egos. And I hope he feels completely free to choose #46 if that is the better or equal choice overall, especially when factoring in the financial aspect. There is another scenario. Let's say he has his heart set on #13 and gets wait-listed or denied. Should he feel like he should do a PG year so that he can get #13 (or higher)? There is an inherent problem in the system with viewing #46 as insufficient or not good enough, especially if there are plenty of data to suggest that he can do whatever he wants to do with his future and might be even happier at #46. I'm not saying that I won't feel a twinge of pain and/or envy if and when he has to let go of #13 (partly because he's worked damn hard to earn #13), but I hope his perception of my reaction won't unduly influence his choice or dampen his excitement about #46.

In my mind, these points parallel the discussion also in this thread (and others) about playing soccer at the highest level that one can possibly be accepted in to. And I would say the same thing. Let's say my kid could make a DAP team as a bottom 3rd player. Contrary to what some (or at least one person) have argued, I think my kid is just as well off and still amply challenged playing for a good enough non-DAP team. He doesn't need to play DAP just so he can say he played DAP. If he was NT material, then I'd say something different. Just as I would say something different if my kid was Harvard MD/PhD material. But if you're on a path that will more than adequately facilitate the next projected steps on one's path then why, for what, and for whom go for the overkill?

[Unregistered]

I posted the quote and someone else replied to your question in the post after you.

You've read through the thread (and other threads with similar content) and the relevance of the quote doesn't compute for you?

I thought it was quite germane. When we began the college process in earnest about a year or so ago during my kid's junior year I think we all had the naive thought that he most likely would choose the "best" school he could get into that also seemed a reasonable fit. For the sake of argument, let's say we viewed "best" in a conventional way (reputation, rankings, etc). As we approach the finish line over the next 2-3 weeks, it is possible that his final choice will end up being whatever that "best" school is among his options. But maybe not. And that is because the decision process is far more complicated than we imagined. A year ago we were not thinking about receiving offers of merit money from some schools. We went into the process thinking we would visit, compare, and he would decide between the places where he was accepted on equal footing so to speak (i.e. all things being equal which school rose to the top). But then you find out that there are not always equal comparisons. We (as I assume is true for some of you) are confronted with choices between very good schools where we'll be paying @55-58K a year with no financial relief vs. quite good enough schools where he's being offered 15-30K per year in merit money. The quite good enough schools look much better in that light, and we have no reason to believe that these schools won't provide plenty of challenge, room to grow, and if desired, very good graduate school opportunities. As a reference point, let's say by very good schools I'm referring to LACs ranked in #8-#35 range and by quite good enough schools ranked in the #36-#70 range.

Let's say DDay comes and his choice ultimately is between a school ranked at #13 (with no money) vs. #46 (with 20K). I'll be honest, when we open the news from #13 and see Accepted, that is going to feel damn good for both my kid and me. And it's possible there will be some particular reason that #13 wins the day. But I hope he doesn't make that decision based on what he thinks others think, or our egos. And I hope he feels completely free to choose #46 if that is the better or equal choice overall, especially when factoring in the financial aspect. There is another scenario. Let's say he has his heart set on #13 and gets wait-listed or denied. Should he feel like he should do a PG year so that he can get #13 (or higher)? There is an inherent problem in the system with viewing #46 as insufficient or not good enough, especially if there are plenty of data to suggest that he can do whatever he wants to do with his future and might be even happier at #46. I'm not saying that I won't feel a twinge of pain and/or envy if and when he has to let go of #13 (partly because he's worked damn hard to earn #13), but I hope his perception of my reaction won't unduly influence his choice or dampen his excitement about #46.

In my mind, these points parallel the discussion also in this thread (and others) about playing soccer at the highest level that one can possibly be accepted in to. And I would say the same thing. Let's say my kid could make a DAP team as a bottom 3rd player. Contrary to what some (or at least one person) have argued, I think my kid is just as well off and still amply challenged playing for a good enough non-DAP team. He doesn't need to play DAP just so he can say he played DAP. If he was NT material, then I'd say something different. Just as I would say something different if my kid was Harvard MD/PhD material. But if you're on a path that will more than adequately facilitate the next projected steps on one's path then why, for what, and for whom go for the overkill?

Excellent post! Thanks!

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To play devils advocate here, I have repeatedly noticed over the years a distinct sadness in the eyes of people as they mention the wonderful college they turned down in favor of merit aid from a far less well known school that was OK. I have seen this again and again among very bright people who do not return for alumni events or reunions and remain distanced from a college they simply aren't all that proud to be associated with. This is the opposite off those People I know that feel they attended the best college they could and are hugely proud of that association and accomplishment. I would argue that 20 years from now how your child feels about the entire experience will totally out weigh what they study or how much it costs.

Same with soccer. Don't settle for OK if you really don't want to and don't have to. Do what makes you feel happy and proud now and you'll have your best chance of feeling that way about the experience in the future.

[Unregistered]

To play devils advocate here, I have repeatedly noticed over the years a distinct sadness in the eyes of people as they mention the wonderful college they turned down in favor of merit aid from a far less well known school that was OK. I have seen this again and again among very bright people who do not return for alumni events or reunions and remain distanced from a college they simply aren't all that proud to be associated with. This is the opposite off those People I know that feel they attended the best college they could and are hugely proud of that association and accomplishment. I would argue that 20 years from now how your child feels about the entire experience will totally out weigh what they study or how much it costs.

Same with soccer. Don't settle for OK if you really don't want to and don't have to. Do what makes you feel happy and proud now and you'll have your best chance of feeling that way about the experience in the future.

Unfortunately, the costs of college these days mean that financial details play a large part of the decision making process.

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Thanks for these posts. Gave me a little perspective on my own "problem". My son is going to a top LAC. By top I mean perennially ranked in the top 3 in the country. He was recruited by the soccer coach (no money though in this league), whose team is perennially in the NCAA D3 finals. Perfect right? I actually think he his going to the WRONG school for the WRONG reasons and have been feeling quite sad about it. Before he committed to apply early to the school we had many long talks about all the other options he was giving up to take this opportunity. Once he decided to go there, I have kept my mouth shut and have tried to be 100% supportive. But I really think 4 years from now he will look back on his college career and think "why did I go there?"

These posts make me realize that there is no perfect school, or perfect answer. OUr kids will make decisions, sometimes good, sometimes no so much. But hopefully they keep moving forward and learn something every step of the way.

[Unregistered]

Thanks for these posts. Gave me a little perspective on my own "problem". My son is going to a top LAC. By top I mean perennially ranked in the top 3 in the country. He was recruited by the soccer coach (no money though in this league), whose team is perennially in the NCAA D3 finals. Perfect right? I actually think he his going to the WRONG school for the WRONG reasons and have been feeling quite sad about it. Before he committed to apply early to the school we had many long talks about all the other options he was giving up to take this opportunity. Once he decided to go there, I have kept my mouth shut and have tried to be 100% supportive. But I really think 4 years from now he will look back on his college career and think "why did I go there?"

These posts make me realize that there is no perfect school, or perfect answer. OUr kids will make decisions, sometimes good, sometimes no so much. But hopefully they keep moving forward and learn something every step of the way.

Is LAC shorthand for Liberal Arts College? Sorry...I'm a bit of a newbie. Also thank you for your candor. I would be curious as to why you feel it is the wrong school and what type of environment or school/program would have made for a better choice given his profile? Thanks. (Not knocking...just curious).

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Thanks for these posts. Gave me a little perspective on my own "problem". My son is going to a top LAC. By top I mean perennially ranked in the top 3 in the country. He was recruited by the soccer coach (no money though in this league), whose team is perennially in the NCAA D3 finals. Perfect right? I actually think he his going to the WRONG school for the WRONG reasons and have been feeling quite sad about it. Before he committed to apply early to the school we had many long talks about all the other options he was giving up to take this opportunity. Once he decided to go there, I have kept my mouth shut and have tried to be 100% supportive. But I really think 4 years from now he will look back on his college career and think "why did I go there?"

These posts make me realize that there is no perfect school, or perfect answer. OUr kids will make decisions, sometimes good, sometimes no so much. But hopefully they keep moving forward and learn something every step of the way.

Don't worry. Nothing is ground in stone here other than the first year. Kids switch colleges constantly after a false start somewhere. I think I know just as many kids who graduated happy from teir second pick as I do kids who stayed with their first choice. If it really is a mistake it is very fixable.

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Is LAC shorthand for Liberal Arts College? Sorry...I'm a bit of a newbie. Also thank you for your candor. I would be curious as to why you feel it is the wrong school and what type of environment or school/program would have made for a better choice given his profile? Thanks. (Not knocking...just curious).

I have a 2011 graduate and we are looking at things differently. Since the 4 yr commitment is expensive and soccer should not be the priority (in our house) we are guiding our child toward the best roi and to the path that will generate the least amount of debt. we have these discussions constantly, especially since the letters are starting arrive.

[Unregistered]

Thanks for these posts. Gave me a little perspective on my own "problem". My son is going to a top LAC. By top I mean perennially ranked in the top 3 in the country. He was recruited by the soccer coach (no money though in this league), whose team is perennially in the NCAA D3 finals. Perfect right? I actually think he his going to the WRONG school for the WRONG reasons and have been feeling quite sad about it. Before he committed to apply early to the school we had many long talks about all the other options he was giving up to take this opportunity. Once he decided to go there, I have kept my mouth shut and have tried to be 100% supportive. But I really think 4 years from now he will look back on his college career and think "why did I go there?"

These posts make me realize that there is no perfect school, or perfect answer. OUr kids will make decisions, sometimes good, sometimes no so much. But hopefully they keep moving forward and learn something every step of the way.

I think I may have one in over his head as well, but it is the route he has to go. If it doesn't work, he will have at least tried and will not have the "what if's" hanging over his head for the rest of his life. What looks smart and safe now may lead to a lifetime of" I could of been a contender" excuses. Better to just know.

[Unregistered]

To play devils advocate here, I have repeatedly noticed over the years a distinct sadness in the eyes of people as they mention the wonderful college they turned down in favor of merit aid from a far less well known school that was OK. I have seen this again and again among very bright people who do not return for alumni events or reunions and remain distanced from a college they simply aren't all that proud to be associated with. This is the opposite off those People I know that feel they attended the best college they could and are hugely proud of that association and accomplishment. I would argue that 20 years from now how your child feels about the entire experience will totally out weigh what they study or how much it costs.

Same with soccer. Don't settle for OK if you really don't want to and don't have to. Do what makes you feel happy and proud now and you'll have your best chance of feeling that way about the experience in the future.

Just getting time to respond to this...

You have "repeatedly" noticed a "distinct sadness"? Really? And have you ever run into anyone who went a very good or perfectly good school over so-called more elite or higher ranked choices who feels very good about the decision and is very proud of his or her school?

The merit aid being offered at some schools, perhaps considered a peg down from more elite schools, is important. But more than that, the offers make some of us look at those schools more carefully and we discover that these are really, really good schools -- and schools where our kids actually may be happier, and as said before, amply challenged and well prepared for future graduate school endeavors.

One of the problems with the "go for the absolutely 'best" or 'most elite' school possible syndrome" -- and this follows your sentiments above -- is that you're doomed to live within a bubble where you look at everything along that sort of continuum. So if you go to the 6th ranked school you can feel superior and beat your chest except for when you are at cocktail parties where folks went to schools ranked #1-#5. Not to mention the kind of attitude you exude when you're around everyone else in the world who went to all the other, lesser schools. There is no inherent value in being on the very best team you can possibly make or going to the very best school you could possibly get in.....unless doing so is in the service of something....and by in the service of something, I mean something other than one's ego or need to fend off a lifetime of insecurities. The kind of people you reference have some other problems or need help. They have no reason to have "distinct sadness in their eyes," and I imagine these are the same types of folks who as parents treat their kids' college choices as trophies or signs of family failure. Now that is sad if you want to talk about sadness.

BTW, as an aside, check out the current MIT hopefuls thread on College Confidential.....and see posting after posting of kids REJECTED in the 2350-2400 SAT range, 800s on SAT subject tests, with all 5s on AP exams, who already have their own companies with major, well-known clients, who have won national awards in math and science, and who have great ECs and great recs, etc. Sobering.

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The fact is that choosing a college based on soccer is short sighted. If you're used to a high school or DAP season, you're going to play half the number of games per fall season than you are used to. And the spring season is a few games, or no games, depending on your program.

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The fact is that choosing a college based on soccer is short sighted. If you're used to a high school or DAP season, you're going to play half the number of games per fall season than you are used to. And the spring season is a few games, or no games, depending on your program.

Shortsighted, "long"sighted? Life is what you make of it and making decisions is a life long series of lessons. I tell my guys to pursue your interests and passions to the fullest. The lessons learned there are a whole lot better than making decisions based on the alternatives and the lessons being laced with missed opportunities and regret.