2011 Boys Soccer Verbal Commitments

[Unregistered]

You are being very defensive and I think missing my point(s), or you don't like the points so you distort them as unreasonable.

I am not doubting that DAP is a highly attractive option or that better players gravitate to it. I am not doubting that the Duke kid and the Notre Dame kid are extremely good players who could have landed numerous impressive offers. I am doubting that DAP is as essential to the recruitment process as you make it out to be. You seem to be locked in on the Notre Dame kid now. I'm sure he could have gotten himself recruited to very good schools without DAP, just like Sam Mewis and a host of other girls have pre-ECNL.

As I have said, I think a kid being really good is the most important factor. I don't think DAP is the essential variable. Just like I don't think playing Reg 1, or MAPLE D1 vs MAPLE D2, "in the old days," were essential. Maybe preferred but not essential and I do feel the benefits are overstated. Sure, all things being equal, training with better players and playing competition are preferable. But the 'exposure' element in particular I think is overstated. I don't think players go to a DAP showcase, or any showcase, and end up with scholarship offers flying at them. I've seen teams with very recruitable players go to a bunch of showcases, consistent with the mantra that it is essential to participate, and not one kid has landed somewhere as a result. They have indeed landed places, but through their own and alternative efforts. Players for the most part have to get themselves recruited.

I'm not making any points that BTDT hasn't made over and over on the girls side. And he is also correct that 95% of players will land within 600 miles of home and 90%+ within 300 miles. The "national exposure" argument is simply overstated and except for very rare cases irrelevant.

And I'm not sure the DAP-era lists of commitments are more impressive than what the Bolts produced pre-DAP. I actually think the reverse might be true, and certainly Stars and Scorpions have yielded more impressive lists when compared head-to-head with the two local DAP teams. I'm just asking that you promote DAP with a little more balance.

I think you are confusing a few issues.

First of all, the DAP absolutely gets players more and broader exposure to D1 coaches. You may argue D1 vs. D2 and D3; but there cannot be any argument that the DAP is the best vehicle for exposure to D1 coaches. If you have gone to any DAP showcases or even regular season games and are being honest with what you see, you would have to agree.

Secondly, getting exposed to coaches and being recruited by them are two different things. Getting recruited takes a coach looking for a specific type of player, the player haveing a good game when a coach is watching, the and how the coach rates your son versus other recruits on his radar. The recruiting game is anything but rational.

Your points about distance from home are likely valid; however the reason these choices are made is the result of the players preference to stay home versus players not being recruited by distant schools.

Comparing the boys side with the girls side is apples to oranges; the dynamics, venues, and timing are all very different. It may be the same sport, but not the same recruiting process.

This is not at all to say that D1 is better than D2 or D3; or the DAP is for everyone. As you suggest, balance (and open mindedness) is important to any discussion.

[Unregistered]

I think you are confusing a few issues.

First of all, the DAP absolutely gets players more and broader exposure to D1 coaches. You may argue D1 vs. D2 and D3; but there cannot be any argument that the DAP is the best vehicle for exposure to D1 coaches. If you have gone to any DAP showcases or even regular season games and are being honest with what you see, you would have to agree.

Secondly, getting exposed to coaches and being recruited by them are two different things. Getting recruited takes a coach looking for a specific type of player, the player haveing a good game when a coach is watching, the and how the coach rates your son versus other recruits on his radar. The recruiting game is anything but rational.

Your points about distance from home are likely valid; however the reason these choices are made is the result of the players preference to stay home versus players not being recruited by distant schools.

Comparing the boys side with the girls side is apples to oranges; the dynamics, venues, and timing are all very different. It may be the same sport, but not the same recruiting process.

This is not at all to say that D1 is better than D2 or D3; or the DAP is for everyone. As you suggest, balance (and open mindedness) is important to any discussion.

Different poster here: After reading the last few posts, it appears to me that everyone is saying the same thing. What am I missing?

[Unregistered]

I think you are confusing a few issues.

First of all, the DAP absolutely gets players more and broader exposure to D1 coaches. You may argue D1 vs. D2 and D3; but there cannot be any argument that the DAP is the best vehicle for exposure to D1 coaches. If you have gone to any DAP showcases or even regular season games and are being honest with what you see, you would have to agree.

Secondly, getting exposed to coaches and being recruited by them are two different things. Getting recruited takes a coach looking for a specific type of player, the player haveing a good game when a coach is watching, the and how the coach rates your son versus other recruits on his radar. The recruiting game is anything but rational.

Your points about distance from home are likely valid; however the reason these choices are made is the result of the players preference to stay home versus players not being recruited by distant schools.

Comparing the boys side with the girls side is apples to oranges; the dynamics, venues, and timing are all very different. It may be the same sport, but not the same recruiting process.

This is not at all to say that D1 is better than D2 or D3; or the DAP is for everyone. As you suggest, balance (and open mindedness) is important to any discussion.

The poster below is right....we are saying the same thing. I'm not confused. I never said that DAP players couldn't get recruited by schools that are geographically distant. I only said that in the end this is trivial in most cases as very, very few would take advantage of that. 'Broad' exposure/recruitment is not a big selling point in my mind.

There do seem to be very few D1 commitments overall, DAP or non-DAP.

[Unregistered]

You are being very defensive and I think missing my point(s), or you don't like the points so you distort them as unreasonable.

I am not doubting that DAP is a highly attractive option or that better players gravitate to it. I am not doubting that the Duke kid and the Notre Dame kid are extremely good players who could have landed numerous impressive offers. I am doubting that DAP is as essential to the recruitment process as you make it out to be. You seem to be locked in on the Notre Dame kid now. I'm sure he could have gotten himself recruited to very good schools without DAP, just like Sam Mewis and a host of other girls have pre-ECNL.

As I have said, I think a kid being really good is the most important factor. I don't think DAP is the essential variable. Just like I don't think playing Reg 1, or MAPLE D1 vs MAPLE D2, "in the old days," were essential. Maybe preferred but not essential and I do feel the benefits are overstated. Sure, all things being equal, training with better players and playing competition are preferable. But the 'exposure' element in particular I think is overstated. I don't think players go to a DAP showcase, or any showcase, and end up with scholarship offers flying at them. I've seen teams with very recruitable players go to a bunch of showcases, consistent with the mantra that it is essential to participate, and not one kid has landed somewhere as a result. They have indeed landed places, but through their own and alternative efforts. Players for the most part have to get themselves recruited.

I'm not making any points that BTDT hasn't made over and over on the girls side. And he is also correct that 95% of players will land within 600 miles of home and 90%+ within 300 miles. The "national exposure" argument is simply overstated and except for very rare cases irrelevant.

And I'm not sure the DAP-era lists of commitments are more impressive than what the Bolts produced pre-DAP. I actually think the reverse might be true, and certainly Stars and Scorpions have yielded more impressive lists when compared head-to-head with the two local DAP teams. I'm just asking that you promote DAP with a little more balance.

Well, when you continually attack with mis-information, how can you blame anyone for being defensive?

Did you ever consider that most kids have landed at colleges within 600 miles of home because there hasn't been a significant vehicle of national exposure to college soccer coaches prior to DAP?

Have you looked at the the highly recruited D1 sports like football, hockey, and basketball? These sports have kids from all over the country. How many of these kids live within 600 miles from home? Few. Coaches from these programs recruit from everywhere. High level players look for the best programs.

I'm also confused by your comparison of Stars & Scorpions college attendees to the Bolts. Sounds like you're comparing girls to boys. As those who pay attention to such things know, girls recruiting is vastly different than boys. If, however, you're attempting to tell us that the boys from the Stars & Scorpions (do they even have a boys program?) are attending more prestigeous colleges than the Bolts DAP players, then it is time for you to seek immediate psychiatric help.

[Unregistered]

Well, when you continually attack with mis-information, how can you blame anyone for being defensive?

Did you ever consider that most kids have landed at colleges within 600 miles of home because there hasn't been a significant vehicle of national exposure to college soccer coaches prior to DAP?

Have you looked at the the highly recruited D1 sports like football, hockey, and basketball? These sports have kids from all over the country. How many of these kids live within 600 miles from home? Few. Coaches from these programs recruit from everywhere. High level players look for the best programs.

I'm also confused by your comparison of Stars & Scorpions college attendees to the Bolts. Sounds like you're comparing girls to boys. As those who pay attention to such things know, girls recruiting is vastly different than boys. If, however, you're attempting to tell us that the boys from the Stars & Scorpions (do they even have a boys program?) are attending more prestigeous colleges than the Bolts DAP players, then it is time for you to seek immediate psychiatric help.

What is the misinformation?

Since we live in New England, and given the selection of colleges from NC through DC, PA, NY, and into our area, I don't see very many kids EVER going more than 600 miles out of region. For what reason? An argument can be made for doing so, soccer or otherwise, as my kid might flourish at Univ of New Mexico (great soccer program and facilities by the way) and go on to med school there, but for most of our kids as they actually start applying the beyond the Mississippi River schools start falling off the list (if they were ever there to begin with).

But since you're concerned about misinformation, answer a couple of questions.

Do you think the DAP college commitment lists last year and this year will exceed the lists that the Bolts produced in the two years immediately preceding DAP?

Without naming players, how many Bolts DAP players do you think landed at a school that was unattainable for them without DAP?

I will take one shot....if you're going to be prestigious please learn how to spell it.

[Unregistered]

Did you ever consider that most kids have landed at colleges within 600 miles of home because there hasn't been a significant vehicle of national exposure to college soccer coaches prior to DAP?.

I'm not the poster you are arguing with, for what reason(s) I don't know. That said, I would agree that the"national exposure" is better since the DAP, but to what end? This aspect really doesn't mean anything if players aren't going to those schools outside 600 miles. Since there are many showcases up and down the east coast (now and before DAP) that provide that "600 mile" exposure (Bethesda, Jefferson Cup, Disney, PDA, MAPS, Potomac, SAC, etc..) you have to weigh what is the benefit? It's similar to the Las Vegas argument on the girls side or the bashing the Blazers take for going to AZ. What is the cost / benefit? I'm not saying that it's wrong to go there, just that a discussion can be had (hopefully) weighing the pros/cons and ultimately each family must decide.

[Unregistered]

I think you are confusing a few issues.

First of all, the DAP absolutely gets players more and broader exposure to D1 coaches. You may argue D1 vs. D2 and D3; but there cannot be any argument that the DAP is the best vehicle for exposure to D1 coaches. If you have gone to any DAP showcases or even regular season games and are being honest with what you see, you would have to agree.

Secondly, getting exposed to coaches and being recruited by them are two different things. Getting recruited takes a coach looking for a specific type of player, the player haveing a good game when a coach is watching, the and how the coach rates your son versus other recruits on his radar. The recruiting game is anything but rational.

Your points about distance from home are likely valid; however the reason these choices are made is the result of the players preference to stay home versus players not being recruited by distant schools.

Comparing the boys side with the girls side is apples to oranges; the dynamics, venues, and timing are all very different. It may be the same sport, but not the same recruiting process.

This is not at all to say that D1 is better than D2 or D3; or the DAP is for everyone. As you suggest, balance (and open mindedness) is important to any discussion.

Good post and in agreement on more exposure to D1 coaches--can't debate this point at all. Most interesting point and in complete agreement with is "The recruiting game is anything but rational". Spot on on this one. Every college coach is different when assessing talent, need of position, decision making ability, play making ability....it's all over the board. Recruitment is often more about the coache's need for a specific position or type of player--not whether this player can or cannot play D1 (or D2 or D3) or not. The question is can he play for this team and do we need his skill set now or next year? For example a coach may say "I'm looking for 2 left-footed players this class". Everyone knows some players who may be playing D2 or D3 and they say "I thought he would be playing D1" or others saying "I can't believe player "A" is playing D1 and player "B" is playing D3"--you never know as it is really up to the college coach and what he is looking for that year and how the player performed in the game(s) the coach watched him in.

[Unregistered]

Good post and in agreement on more exposure to D1 coaches--can't debate this point at all. Most interesting point and in complete agreement with is "The recruiting game is anything but rational". Spot on on this one. Every college coach is different when assessing talent, need of position, decision making ability, play making ability....it's all over the board. Recruitment is often more about the coache's need for a specific position or type of player--not whether this player can or cannot play D1 (or D2 or D3) or not. The question is can he play for this team and do we need his skill set now or next year? For example a coach may say "I'm looking for 2 left-footed players this class". Everyone knows some players who may be playing D2 or D3 and they say "I thought he would be playing D1" or others saying "I can't believe player "A" is playing D1 and player "B" is playing D3"--you never know as it is really up to the college coach and what he is looking for that year and how the player performed in the game(s) the coach watched him in.

And whether the player wanted to play D1 or D3 or go to a small school vs a large school. There are so many variables that come into play in the recruiting process and where the player wants to go to college and where they ultimately attend/play.

[Unregistered]

What is the misinformation?

Since we live in New England, and given the selection of colleges from NC through DC, PA, NY, and into our area, I don't see very many kids EVER going more than 600 miles out of region. For what reason? An argument can be made for doing so, soccer or otherwise, as my kid might flourish at Univ of New Mexico (great soccer program and facilities by the way) and go on to med school there, but for most of our kids as they actually start applying the beyond the Mississippi River schools start falling off the list (if they were ever there to begin with).

But since you're concerned about misinformation, answer a couple of questions.

Do you think the DAP college commitment lists last year and this year will exceed the lists that the Bolts produced in the two years immediately preceding DAP?

Without naming players, how many Bolts DAP players do you think landed at a school that was unattainable for them without DAP?

I will take one shot....if you're going to be prestigious please learn how to spell it.

Why does it always seem like those who have run out of convincing points to make always seem to resort to criticizing a poster's spelling?

[Unregistered]

And whether the player wanted to play D1 or D3 or go to a small school vs a large school. There are so many variables that come into play in the recruiting process and where the player wants to go to college and where they ultimately attend/play.

Exactly!

[Unregistered]

ApN66y

Why does it always seem like those who have run out of convincing points to make always seem to resort to criticizing a poster's spelling?

Nice redirect.

So I guess you couldn't answer the two simple questions.

[Unregistered]

Nice redirect.

So I guess you couldn't answer the two simple questions.

Sorry to disappoint. I wasn't having a discussion with you at all. Just pointing out that correcting spelling mistakes only comes up at certain times.

Oh, and the nauseating arrogance of those perfect people who feel the need to correct is also something I could do without.

[Unregistered]

Sorry to disappoint. I wasn't having a discussion with you at all. Just pointing out that correcting spelling mistakes only comes up at certain times.

Oh, and the nauseating arrogance of those perfect people who feel the need to correct is also something I could do without.

Gee, I hope I didn't ruin your holidays. Even though you weren't "part of the discussion," you did seem to offer an evaluative comment about "running out of convincing points..." Maybe you can take a stab at the questions posed. It is also annoying when folks ignore content and focus instead on some pet peeve like you did. But insofar as I offended you or you found my moment of weakness tiresome, please know that this happened in response to numerous arrogant and cock-sure lectures (with their own misinformation) about DAP and college soccer recruiting (and the also tiresome rejoinder about seeking psychiatric help).

[Unregistered]

Well, when you continually attack with mis-information, how can you blame anyone for being defensive?

Did you ever consider that most kids have landed at colleges within 600 miles of home because there hasn't been a significant vehicle of national exposure to college soccer coaches prior to DAP?

Have you looked at the the highly recruited D1 sports like football, hockey, and basketball? These sports have kids from all over the country. How many of these kids live within 600 miles from home? Few. Coaches from these programs recruit from everywhere. High level players look for the best programs.

I'm also confused by your comparison of Stars & Scorpions college attendees to the Bolts. Sounds like you're comparing girls to boys. As those who pay attention to such things know, girls recruiting is vastly different than boys. If, however, you're attempting to tell us that the boys from the Stars & Scorpions (do they even have a boys program?) are attending more prestigeous colleges than the Bolts DAP players, then it is time for you to seek immediate psychiatric help.

The Ghostly One is back!!

[Unregistered]

Gee, I hope I didn't ruin your holidays. Even though you weren't "part of the discussion," you did seem to offer an evaluative comment about "running out of convincing points..." Maybe you can take a stab at the questions posed. It is also annoying when folks ignore content and focus instead on some pet peeve like you did. But insofar as I offended you or you found my moment of weakness tiresome, please know that this happened in response to numerous arrogant and cock-sure lectures (with their own misinformation) about DAP and college soccer recruiting (and the also tiresome rejoinder about seeking psychiatric help).

I am sorry to burst your bubble, but DAP is where college coaches are putting the vast majority of their recruiting efforts and budgets. It it will only become increasingly more geared toward DAP as the costs of fuel, airline tickets, and hotels increase.

While you have the right to your opinion, you might want to attend local DAP games and a MAPLE or Region 1 game on the same weekend, and observe the number of coaches recruiting at each for yourself. Although I somehow doubt your own "cock-sure" point of view will allow you to see the truth through the blinders caused by whatever petty jealousy and bitternes you've built up through the years.