Playing time/ substitutions

[Unregistered]

I agree with some of HS Harry says, but he leaves out the important reality that even HS coaches need to develop players. They have kids from freshmen on up, who may know how to play better than their seniors, but don't have the size or experience with the HS game to contribute much - yet. The coach has to look down the road to next year, and get those players comfortable in the HS game, and have a team ready for the next year.

I agree with some of HS Harry says, but she leaves out. Harry is really Harriet.

[Unregistered]

How do you write stuff like that and expect to be taken seriously. I have coached and played in several thousands games and some 14 year old is going to walk on the field and know more than a 50 year old coach who has been around the game for over 40 years? Are you smoking crack or something. I have NEVER run into a 14 year old player with that attitude. But I have run into parents who think that way. That is the problem with far too many club parents. You CANNOT differentiate between what you think and what your kids think. They are less like you than you could ever imagine.

- Cujo

Exactly right.

[Unregistered]

I agree with some of HS Harry says, but she leaves out. Harry is really Harriet.

oh - maybe it should be HS Harriet.

[Unregistered]

Cujo's post explains a lot. We in the US have a lot of high level clubs and other organizations trying to produce world class soccer players on the one hand, and on the other hand a huge cadre of HS and college coaches who churn out 2nd and 3rd rate soccer in every town for years on end (was that 40+, Cujo), sucking up every talented kid whose been trying to develop into another Xavi, and turning them into a Dempsey (in terms of style of course). Yeah Cujo, high school is great stuff, or fun whatever, but that's all it is and it never will contribute to making US soccer better - its on the wrong side of the ledger. That why US soccer tried to make DAP year round, and for some teams it is, and that's specifically to keep the best talent away from high school teams.

[Unregistered]

Cujo's post explains a lot. We in the US have a lot of high level clubs and other organizations trying to produce world class soccer players on the one hand, and on the other hand a huge cadre of HS and college coaches who churn out 2nd and 3rd rate soccer in every town for years on end (was that 40+, Cujo), sucking up every talented kid whose been trying to develop into another Xavi, and turning them into a Dempsey (in terms of style of course). Yeah Cujo, high school is great stuff, or fun whatever, but that's all it is and it never will contribute to making US soccer better - its on the wrong side of the ledger. That why US soccer tried to make DAP year round, and for some teams it is, and that's specifically to keep the best talent away from high school teams.

That is fine and dandy but I leave that kind of development to coaches with more credentials than I have and that care about the US team. That was never my objective when I got involved in youth soccer. I don't care about DAP, WNT, the Olympics, OPD or anything else. Not my job. I cared about teaching kids the importance of working together with 16 other girls towards a shared objective, that the team is more important than the individual, and that what you learn on the soccer field about yourself will pay dividends repeatedly in your adult life. All but a few of the kids who came through my program understood those objectives and benefitted from their time as part of my team. Just the other day I ran into a player who is now married and has a baby. She was with her husband and yelled out 'Hey Coach" while I was at a mall. We talked for a while, she has a good job and in parting she commented that the time spent on the bus going to and from games with her teammates is one of the best memories of her life and something she would never forget. THOSE OF YOU THAT HAVE NEVER BEEN ON THAT "BUS" SIMPLY CANNOT UNDERSTAND MY POINT OF VIEW.

Good for DAP, I think it is a good thing to identify the best players at U16 and move them into an environment where they will thrive. But the player has to want it. The thing that fare too many parents in here fail to realize is that your kid may not have the same goals in soccer that you do. The reasons for playing HS soccer are identical to the reasons why players in all sports love playing for their HS. It fills an emotional need that club soccer can never fill. 90+% of the kids who play HS soccer will never play again after their Sr season ends. The problem with too many of the club parents is that they believe that in order to fulfill their fantasy's and dreams about their kids' chances of professional and collegiate soccer glory is that they need to demean and perhaps even destroy HS soccer to reach that objective. Don't like HS soccer? Then force your kid out of it..... Keep this in mind. They may not say it but most of them will HATE you for it. For every 100 parents that think their kid is the next soccer golden child maybe 2 or 3 have the potential to play at the highest level.

In closing the idea that HS 'runis' players is laughable. What is ruining US soccer are parents who have their kids in it for the wrong reason and the clubs/coaches that exploit those parents for personal financial gain and who are no better than snake oil salesmen who have convinced parents that recruitment and development are mutually compatible. They are not. Never have been and never will be.

- Cujo

[Unregistered]

How do you write stuff like that and expect to be taken seriously. I have coached and played in several thousands games and some 14 year old is going to walk on the field and know more than a 50 year old coach who has been around the game for over 40 years? Are you smoking crack or something. I have NEVER run into a 14 year old player with that attitude. But I have run into parents who think that way. That is the problem with far too many club parents. You CANNOT differentiate between what you think and what your kids think. They are less like you than you could ever imagine.

- Cujo

I think the crack I am on is a lot better than yours.
1.By prefacing your comments with statements like"i will be damned if a give a hotshot player time etc" you have already placed your ego above any objective evaluation of incoming talent That is why you will have a team full of Aby Wambachs instead of Martas.
2. My little Mia does start and play in high school but I cringe every time her coach who has been around for 40 years would yell go to the ball when the game is already 3 goal difference. I would welcome a hotshot freshman coming in for her and rest her so she does not end up with an injury ,which btw is an all time record pace at high school players.

Unfortunately too many coaches like you start thinking about themselves more than the players or the game and in the end the final product is not the quality we deserve.
I can send you over some of my good quality crack if you like.

[Unregistered]

...I cringe every time her coach who has been around for 40 years would yell go to the ball when the game is already 3 goal difference. I would welcome a hotshot freshman coming in for her and rest her so she does not end up with an injury ,which btw is an all time record pace at high school players.

I agree. This is caused by too many games in a week and some officials who can't control a game and HS coaches who don't understand the tatical aspects of the game.

[Unregistered]

I think the crack I am on is a lot better than yours.
1.By prefacing your comments with statements like"i will be damned if a give a hotshot player time etc" you have already placed your ego above any objective evaluation of incoming talent That is why you will have a team full of Aby Wambachs instead of Martas.
2. My little Mia does start and play in high school but I cringe every time her coach who has been around for 40 years would yell go to the ball when the game is already 3 goal difference. I would welcome a hotshot freshman coming in for her and rest her so she does not end up with an injury ,which btw is an all time record pace at high school players.

Unfortunately too many coaches like you start thinking about themselves more than the players or the game and in the end the final product is not the quality we deserve.
I can send you over some of my good quality crack if you like.

When I have a team that was 14-1-2 with 10 returning starters I really don't care what an incoming Freshman's reputation is. I want to SEE what they can do. And not on the first day. I want to see how they hold up after two weeks of training and a scrimmage against a tough opponent. The one thing about my HS team is that every player knew that playing time was earned based upon effort, ability, and PERFORMANCE.

You know what makes me cringe? Watching a club practice with players paying $$4k per year to stand around doing diddly drills and standing in line.

If you watched one of my practices you would see lots of technical work, lots of small sided games, and something you rarely see in club, work on set plays so that players know what to do during a game.

Furthermore, you know what my HS practices looked like? My club practices.....

[Unregistered]

Cujo's post explains a lot. We in the US have a lot of high level clubs and other organizations trying to produce world class soccer players on the one hand, and on the other hand a huge cadre of HS and college coaches who churn out 2nd and 3rd rate soccer in every town for years on end (was that 40+, Cujo), sucking up every talented kid whose been trying to develop into another Xavi, and turning them into a Dempsey (in terms of style of course). Yeah Cujo, high school is great stuff, or fun whatever, but that's all it is and it never will contribute to making US soccer better - its on the wrong side of the ledger. That why US soccer tried to make DAP year round, and for some teams it is, and that's specifically to keep the best talent away from high school teams.

Every academy player I know is on a HS team. They are in public, private, and parochial leagues. The only exception I can think of is DF, who has gone pro. The thought that HS soccer ruins elite soccer players, or that crazed parents regularly keep their kids out of HS soccer, is ludicrous. Those who do are the exception, not the rule.

[Unregistered]

Every academy player I know is on a HS team. They are in public, private, and parochial leagues. The only exception I can think of is DF, who has gone pro. The thought that HS soccer ruins elite soccer players, or that crazed parents regularly keep their kids out of HS soccer, is ludicrous. Those who do are the exception, not the rule.

You can include the kid from Nantucket, Caio Correa, who as far as I know never played club or did ODP, but did play for his HS team and still he's playing professionally in Brazil.

Now look at the article about girls soccer from DiCicco. Clearly giving up HS for club isn't the answer.

[Unregistered]

When I have a team that was 14-1-2 with 10 returning starters I really don't care what an incoming Freshman's reputation is. I want to SEE what they can do. And not on the first day. I want to see how they hold up after two weeks of training and a scrimmage against a tough opponent. The one thing about my HS team is that every player knew that playing time was earned based upon effort, ability, and PERFORMANCE.

You know what makes me cringe? Watching a club practice with players paying $$4k per year to stand around doing diddly drills and standing in line.

If you watched one of my practices you would see lots of technical work, lots of small sided games, and something you rarely see in club, work on set plays so that players know what to do during a game.

Furthermore, you know what my HS practices looked like? My club practices.....

If it makes you feel better I am not pro club soccer either. And you may be a better coach than a lot of club coaches. And also it is your job as a coach to make sure your players do "hold up" by properly preparing them. I want you to understand that in all of this
you must maintain an open mind about players abilities ,qualitites and mental attitudes
before we destroy their confidence with our ego.

[Unregistered]

If it makes you feel better I am not pro club soccer either. And you may be a better coach than a lot of club coaches. And also it is your job as a coach to make sure your players do "hold up" by properly preparing them. I want you to understand that in all of this
you must maintain an open mind about players abilities ,qualitites and mental attitudes
before we destroy their confidence with our ego.

There is a fine line between ego and alpha. Actually both overlap each other. When you run a program with 40 women between the ages of 14 and 18 you need to be in control from Day 1. You can always ease up but you can never ratchet up control. Everything that gets done get done within a team context. This is why Captains are so important in HS women's soccer. They are your conduit to what is going on with the team. They are in the fourth year of the program and they are as essential as Border Collies are to sheperds. If you do not run the program with a firm hand you are inviting chaos. I took over an underperforming team that had never been to tournament and one in which the players held sway over the coach. The very first practice I threw 3 players off the team for taking unauthorized breaks, one actually took a cigarette break. See Ya!!!!! Believe me the line of parents complaining was long during the first few weeks as I destroyed cliques, eliminated automatic varsity status for seniors, the no freshman on varsity policy, brought rebelious players into line, and established control over a talented but undisciplined group of players. We fell one game short of tournament that year. The next 4 years we made tournament every year and won our conference twice while winning 80% of our games.

I stand by my system and approach. Some players could not handle my system but 95% did. That was enough to convince me that I took the right path.

[Unregistered]

Every academy player I know is on a HS team. They are in public, private, and parochial leagues. The only exception I can think of is DF, who has gone pro. The thought that HS soccer ruins elite soccer players, or that crazed parents regularly keep their kids out of HS soccer, is ludicrous. Those who do are the exception, not the rule.

When my son played HS, his team had 3 kids on it (in different years) that eventually had (short) pro careers: 2 in MLS and one in Italy. Each of them made choices at various times which conflicted with HS (one sat out to rest one year, they all missed games for various call ups...). They ALL loved playing for their HS. BTW, the HS coach was also the club coach for 2 of them. So, I don't see the big distinction.

But I will say this, there are plenty of (elite) 15-16 yr old players that know the game better than many experienced, yet run-of-the-mill coaches. Remember, in most countries, that is the age you go pro. It does not take 30 years to become world class. And a bad coach CAN instill bad habits in a player at any age, HS or club.

Bottom line, if YOUR HS is run in a way the conflicts with YOUR soccer goals, just stay away. But for most kids, it is the memory of a lifetime. (Which is why schools need to get the best coaches they can find......)

[Unregistered]

Your comment is irrelevant without framing it according to age group:

U10: All levels - everybody plays, roughly equal time
U12: All levels - everybody plays, playing time varies based on ability merit but everyplayers should get meaninful time. i.e. two stretches of at least 15 minutes
U14 and up: Premier Leagues - everybody plays at least one meaningful stretch, but playing time is based upon merit and ability.

All leagues are development. If you as a coach/club take a parents money and you roster that player you MUST play them. Practice tells you something about a player but not everything. I have seen players who excel in practice but choke during games and vice versa. This has nothing to do with "participation trophies" and everything to do with the MAPLE credo. "Do not roster a player if you do not intend to use them regularly". Which part of that sentence is so hard to understand. Players are still developong at U22.

- Cujo

Getting back to the original topic.

http://www.socceramerica.com/blogs/y..._insider/?p=92

Barcelona’s approach to youth development

"Through age 17, Barcelona fields two teams at each age group. Each player plays at least 45 percent of the games.

Hey, but what do they know at Barca about player development, right?

[Unregistered]

http://www.topdrawersoccer.com/index..._pdf=1&id=8347

Principles of substitution in youth soccer
Monday, 18 May 2009 02:00 Robert Ziegler, ESNN

"The high-pressure part I'm willing to argue with anyone, anywhere, about. When the Academy games started, teams were playing the same old way and then realized you can't sustain that sort of effort over a 90-minute match. The rest of the world refrains from embracing that kind of tactic for more than a few minutes at a time. This allows players from both sides a little more freedom on the ball and thus they have opportunities to be creative and skillful. So then, technical ability and imagination become at least equal value to physical ability and hard work. I'm not saying there isn't room for all of these attributes, but for too long our game has favored everything athletic at the expense of skill development. After two years of the Academy we are seeing a marked improvement in this area and the games are most definitely better to watch."