Playing time/ substitutions

[Unregistered]

A good player makes those around him better.

Not always true. We hope this would be the case but if players have 10 foot touches and are afraid of the ball your good players will learn quickly how much easier it is to get it done themself/

[Unregistered]

After reading these post.Is H.S.soccer really worth it if you play club.

[Unregistered]

After reading these post.Is H.S.soccer really worth it if you play club.

That is a question that should be answered by the player and only the player. None of the parents business and certainly they should have ZERO role in the players decision. 99.8% of all club players will CHOOSE to play soccer.

- Cujo

[Unregistered]

Not always true. We hope this would be the case but if players have 10 foot touches and are afraid of the ball your good players will learn quickly how much easier it is to get it done themself/

Kevin Stevens 50 goal scorer with Lemieux, 15 goal without.

Explain.

[HS Harry]

After reading these post.Is H.S.soccer really worth it if you play club.

Yes, but you must have a set of expectations that allows a player (and parent) to enjoy it for what it is. It isn't high end (National League) club. It is usually competitive and exciting soccer. As I have said on multiple times, one of the great challenges for the coach and players is to combine players with some wide ranging skills and abilities to make a succesful and productive unit. Sometimes that means an over-emphasis on "riding" a star player for as much as you can get. Sometimes it means the player that is projected as a defender in college will need to play CM or maybe even forward for her HS team. Usually, it means playing a more simplistic (and agressively defensive) system than you may see in club. Call it kick and run, call it direct, really call it what you want, but in HS the object is to get the little round ball over the goal line and into the back of that big net more than your opponent. And teams will employ lots of systems, tactics and schemes in an effort to accomplish that end ... winning. I've also pointed out that HS soccer has a huge community element. That means the team, school community and the community at large. Don't underestimate this social/communal part of HS soccer. As one of my daughters once piinted out: I played before more people that cared about the result in one HS season than in all my college and club games combined.

[Unregistered]

Alot of it is the parents who think that the HS coach is going to roll out the red carpet for a hotshot club player. It just doesn't happen tht way. I coached HS for a number of years and I could tell the club players that were good and that were going to get lots of playing time as freshman. But I'll be damned if I am going to make it easy from Day 1 and take away playing time from someone who has played for me for three years. It is the incumbent players position to lose and the new players position to win. HS is all about winning and it really is a meritocracy. That being said I started many Freshman and Sophmores. Sometimes they beat out an upperclassman sometimes they got time due to an injury. Typically I would roster 18 players on Varsity. I was clear that those in the 12-18 slots may go several games with little or no time. But given the 2/3 game per week pace injuries and the need to rest the top 5 players guaranteed that everyone got some time on the field. Additionally I would bring JV players up here and there to get them some varsity experience. Sometimes I felt it was better leaving a player down on JV to get lots of playing time if I was deep at a position. Typically my #2 GK was in JV while the #3 keeper was with the Varsity.

I also love the kick and chase comments. I never saw kick and chase except with the least talented teams. I certainly never saw it with Fenwick, AC, Archbishop Williams, AP etc etc. Most had club coaches and many club players and the played the game very competently. Is the level close to top club - no, of course not but HS soccer is far from the Neanderthalian clusterbleep that the soccer snobs in here would have you believe. Mostly it is just sour grapes because their little Mia or Landon found HS soccer to be a little more challenging than expected. The natural reaction is to demean the venue rather than admit that your kid is not as good as you thought they were and that HS places demands on club players that they are not prepared for i.e. 6 practices per week, 2/3 games per week and tough, big and fast players. The mental demands of a HS season far far outpace those of club. That is the biggest reason it is a different animal. Otherwise the ball is round, the pitch is slightly pitches and the goal is 192 SF. Not to mention the fact that the GK in HS is VERY good.

- Cujo

And that is why ladies and gentlemen why HS soccer will continue to suck.
Overated high school power hungry coaches that cannot accept the fact that some of the players more likely know more about the sport than themselves.

[MASC]

The "grind" is very similar to college. Additionally, club soccer is a very artifical environment. One is only playing against others in the same age group. The difference between a college freshman and college senior, especially on the men's side is considerable. Men don't reach their full speed potential until roughly 28 and they continue to get stronger until well into their 40's.

A lot of HS soccer play is restricted more by the physical differences than the outright skill and tactical differences. A senior in HS is much stronger and faster than a HS freshman irrespective of their skill. "Power" soccer becomes very tempting when confronting a smaller, slower, weaker player. Even the highly trained club player and most seniors in HS have no problems doing such.

The best HS soccer teams do not play many if any freshmen. They are mostly composed of juniors and seniors. When two such teams play, they rarely play the "over the top" game.

I have seen a lot of high level HS soccer and very few teams ever played "kick and chase". The play more closely resembled top level club play than anything else. In fact most of these teams were composed of club trained players and were coached by coaches with a great deal of soccer experience from having played through college and coached at many levels.

[Unregistered]

Someone posted earlier that for women, they get fatter and slower as they mature through college.

[Unregistered]

And that is why ladies and gentlemen why HS soccer will continue to suck.
Overated high school power hungry coaches that cannot accept the fact that some of the players more likely know more about the sport than themselves.

A little harsh, perhaps, but more or less on point. My son's school (Algonquin) is in CMASS. The competition, from what I've seen, is absolutely horrendous. Plenty of blowouts, in Freshman, JV & Varsity, both boys & girls. And none of the Algonquin teams are that good. Yes, the Boys Varsity team is loaded with club players, so it looks more like a club team than many, but it still got blown out by Acton-Boxborough. (To Algonquin, a 2-0 loss is a blowout). Does A/B have more club players? Don't know, but I know it definitely has some.

To me, HS soccer is just a way to have fun with your friends and represent your school against other high schools. I had thought that there would be good training & development in our district, but it seems there really isn't. This is done in clubs, and that's ok. After all, the HS season is very short.

I agree with one poster who observed that a club player in his/her town doesn't shine. It can be hard to join a HS team and get up to speed quickly with the difference in how the game's played. You only have 12 weeks of a HS season, you have the rest of the year with club. You know your club teammates and understand how they play. You're all trained to play the same scheme and you're all on the same page. In HS, it's a free for all. Kick and run works (we all know it does), brutal tackles work (same) and you absolutely don't benefit from being a finesse player. You definitely don't benefit from being known as a top club player! (Note: DF of Leominster isn't playing) Better to keep your head down.

[Unregistered]

Alot of it is the parents who think that the HS coach is going to roll out the red carpet for a hotshot club player. It just doesn't happen tht way. I coached HS for a number of years and I could tell the club players that were good and that were going to get lots of playing time as freshman. But I'll be damned if I am going to make it easy from Day 1 and take away playing time from someone who has played for me for three years. It is the incumbent players position to lose and the new players position to win. HS is all about winning and it really is a meritocracy. That being said I started many Freshman and Sophmores. Sometimes they beat out an upperclassman sometimes they got time due to an injury. Typically I would roster 18 players on Varsity. I was clear that those in the 12-18 slots may go several games with little or no time. But given the 2/3 game per week pace injuries and the need to rest the top 5 players guaranteed that everyone got some time on the field. Additionally I would bring JV players up here and there to get them some varsity experience. Sometimes I felt it was better leaving a player down on JV to get lots of playing time if I was deep at a position. Typically my #2 GK was in JV while the #3 keeper was with the Varsity.

I also love the kick and chase comments. I never saw kick and chase except with the least talented teams. I certainly never saw it with Fenwick, AC, Archbishop Williams, AP etc etc. Most had club coaches and many club players and the played the game very competently. Is the level close to top club - no, of course not but HS soccer is far from the Neanderthalian clusterbleep that the soccer snobs in here would have you believe. Mostly it is just sour grapes because their little Mia or Landon found HS soccer to be a little more challenging than expected. The natural reaction is to demean the venue rather than admit that your kid is not as good as you thought they were and that HS places demands on club players that they are not prepared for i.e. 6 practices per week, 2/3 games per week and tough, big and fast players. The mental demands of a HS season far far outpace those of club. That is the biggest reason it is a different animal. Otherwise the ball is round, the pitch is slightly pitches and the goal is 192 SF. Not to mention the fact that the GK in HS is VERY good.

- Cujo

Cujo - with all due respect, if this is really you posting, perhaps you didn't take a long enough break during the summer. You might benefit from using HS Harry as a role model. He does not demean, and is always thoughtful & respectful in his posts. It's really difficult to read yours sometimes, they're so hate-filled. Just my opinion.

[Unregistered]

Cujo - with all due respect, if this is really you posting, perhaps you didn't take a long enough break during the summer. You might benefit from using HS Harry as a role model. He does not demean, and is always thoughtful & respectful in his posts. It's really difficult to read yours sometimes, they're so hate-filled. Just my opinion.

Actually as someone who has posted my disagreement with Cujo on prior occasions, I thought this last post was pretty tame and I found myself agreeing with most of it. "Hate-filled" ? Not so much. I also happen to enjoy Cujo's posts even when he gets his dander up- it makes this forum a far more interesting place. I do agree that folks like MASC and HS Harry are also interesting without the color. However, I think Cujo is well past the age of looking for a role model.

[Unregistered]

If you as a coach/club take a parents money and you roster that player you MUST play them. Practice tells you something about a player but not everything. I have seen players who excel in practice but choke during games and vice versa. This has nothing to do with "participation trophies" and everything to do with the MAPLE credo. "Do not roster a player if you do not intend to use them regularly". Which part of that sentence is so hard to understand. Players are still developong at U22.

The MAPLE admonition refers to playing frequency (e.g., every game), not duration. Given the promotion-relegation aspect of the league at U11 and above, it is probably not reasonable to expect every player to receive at least 30 minutes a game.

[Unregistered]

And that is why ladies and gentlemen why HS soccer will continue to suck.
Overated high school power hungry coaches that cannot accept the fact that some of the players more likely know more about the sport than themselves.

How do you write stuff like that and expect to be taken seriously. I have coached and played in several thousands games and some 14 year old is going to walk on the field and know more than a 50 year old coach who has been around the game for over 40 years? Are you smoking crack or something. I have NEVER run into a 14 year old player with that attitude. But I have run into parents who think that way. That is the problem with far too many club parents. You CANNOT differentiate between what you think and what your kids think. They are less like you than you could ever imagine.

- Cujo

[Unregistered]

Alot of it is the parents who think that the HS coach is going to roll out the red carpet for a hotshot club player. It just doesn't happen tht way. I coached HS for a number of years and I could tell the club players that were good and that were going to get lots of playing time as freshman. But I'll be damned if I am going to make it easy from Day 1 and take away playing time from someone who has played for me for three years. It is the incumbent players position to lose and the new players position to win. HS is all about winning and it really is a meritocracy. That being said I started many Freshman and Sophmores. Sometimes they beat out an upperclassman sometimes they got time due to an injury. Typically I would roster 18 players on Varsity. I was clear that those in the 12-18 slots may go several games with little or no time. But given the 2/3 game per week pace injuries and the need to rest the top 5 players guaranteed that everyone got some time on the field. Additionally I would bring JV players up here and there to get them some varsity experience. Sometimes I felt it was better leaving a player down on JV to get lots of playing time if I was deep at a position. Typically my #2 GK was in JV while the #3 keeper was with the Varsity.

I also love the kick and chase comments. I never saw kick and chase except with the least talented teams. I certainly never saw it with Fenwick, AC, Archbishop Williams, AP etc etc. Most had club coaches and many club players and the played the game very competently. Is the level close to top club - no, of course not but HS soccer is far from the Neanderthalian clusterbleep that the soccer snobs in here would have you believe. Mostly it is just sour grapes because their little Mia or Landon found HS soccer to be a little more challenging than expected. The natural reaction is to demean the venue rather than admit that your kid is not as good as you thought they were and that HS places demands on club players that they are not prepared for i.e. 6 practices per week, 2/3 games per week and tough, big and fast players. The mental demands of a HS season far far outpace those of club. That is the biggest reason it is a different animal. Otherwise the ball is round, the pitch is slightly pitches and the goal is 192 SF. Not to mention the fact that the GK in HS is VERY good.

- Cujo

Speaking as another poster who has argued with Cujo in the past -- and won ;-) -- I think he's hit the nail solidly on the head with his posts in this thread.

[Unregistered]

Speaking as another poster who has argued with Cujo in the past -- and won ;-) -- I think he's hit the nail solidly on the head with his posts in this thread.

Meant to add an emoticon :) to that last post.