Talent Consolidation and "Destination" Teams

What do posters think about the movement of talent to one or two teams in the state?

At what ages do you think this happens (if you think it happens) and is it different ages for boys and girls?

What makes a team a destination team? Is it the club, the coach or the players (or some combination)?

How does state cup championship or tournament acceptance play into this?

How does commitment of players to club affect this? Is it better for a team to have soccer only players at U15 and above or is it better for the team to allow players to participate in high school sports? Will this affect the success of the team either on the field or as a destination team?

Re: Talent Consolidation and "Destination" Teams

What do posters think about the movement of talent to one or two teams in the state? A natural process

At what ages do you think this happens (if you think it happens) and is it different ages for boys and girls? U13 to U14

What makes a team a destination team? Is it the club, the coach or the players (or some combination)? Success

How does state cup championship or tournament acceptance play into this? State Cup is big

How does commitment of players to club affect this? Is it better for a team to have soccer only players at U15 and above or is it better for the team to allow players to participate in high school sports? Will this affect the success of the team either on the field or as a destination team? Commitment to train regularly as a group is huge

What do posters think about the movement of talent to one or two teams in the state?

It is inevitable and for those players who want to concentrate on soccer - a good thing. It is most difficult for those left behind who perhaps resent those who move on to more competitive environments. To the extent the "destination" team has to cut for there to be vacancies, it is obviously difficult for those cut and those losing friends. It is best if the destination team remains largely intact over numbers of years - with just small variations. Sometimes players may be carried too long – usually in hopes that they will develop, but sometimes just because they are loved or there is no one with a higher skill set to take their place. When the cut takes place it is hugely hurtful and upsetting all around

At what ages do you think this happens (if you think it happens) and is it different ages for boys and girls?

It seems this happens earlier on the boys side - almost from U11 on - - maybe it's the social issues with the girls that keep them on the same teams until U14 or U15?

What makes a team a destination team? Is it the club, the coach or the players (or some combination)?

Club prestige must be there at some level but generally it would seem that the coach and/or the players play the biggest role. Some teams it’s all about the coach, but for many it’s about a player wanted to play with other players on that team. Success would be important - but at least on the girls' side I do not believe a player would move if she truly didn't want to play with the other players on the team. My kids have been involved with two destination teams and on one it was clearly the players who were the recruiting attraction (notwithstanding what the coach thought), the other success and the coach - although the players were a positive as well.

How does state cup championship or tournament acceptance play into this?

At U14 and above state cup performance is critical because of how it plays into tournament acceptance, at least for players who would like to play in college. So this can be what makes a team a destination team. Of course, the theory would be that a destination team doesn’t need other players since they’ve already succeeded.

How does commitment of players to club affect this? Is it better for a team to have soccer only players at U15 and above or is it better for the team to allow players to participate in high school sports? Will this affect the success of the team either on the field or as a destination team?

Some clubs/teams are very friendly to hs athletes (MPS and Scorpions come to mind on the girls side). Other teams obviously allow hs soccer at the older ages but draw the line at winter sports whether expressly or by indicating that training absences will not be penalized. It would make sense that eventually the additional training time as well as full rosters at pre-season tournaments would affect the team's performance in a positive way. However, these policies might make one team a destination team over another for a particular player. A track or basketball athlete would want a team with flexibility.

[reality]

These are excellent questions and I think analysis of the last few will provide the best answer to the first. Player consolidation begins at very young ages. Clubs have reputations for quality and/or success. These clubs will tend to attract even the youngest players into their developmental academies or schools of excellence or whatever they want to call them. As for team specific consolidation, again it can occur at the earliest stages of team development. At U10/11/12 this is going to be driven almost entirely by parents and most will be based on a consistency between a clubs reputation and the early game results. Respected club + placement in Blue = destination squad. I happen to believe that the biggest movement occurs between U12 and U14. In the past ODP had a lot to do with this as better players would communicate and look to play together in club. Certain clubs may even have used their ODP connections as a recruiting tool. Now the participation in the academy system, R1 Premier Leagues and national leagues act as an important draw and that can be clearly articulated entering the U14 year. A coach's reputation is also critical, but some clubs (like MPS) have tried to minimize the coach centric situation by consistently rotating coaches. Still, the Stars Rovers is a great example of how a team aligns itself with each other and their coach before their club. That 20 month period between the start of U12 and end of U13 can bring roster changes of up to 35-50%. So where a team is at U14 is really important to the perception about that team. However, it becomes very difficult to crack into one of these top 2 or 3 squads. Try-outs are really by invitation only and you need to have either a stellar resume (regional or national pools) or a proven track record of success against that team. Players moving from playing up to age appropriate also impacts roster changes. You also need to be fully committed to soccer. The travel and time sacrifices make it virtually impossible to play a spring sport in HS and very difficult to play a winter one. There are certainly examples of players who do, but they are exceedingly rare. I found that rosters tend to stagnate some through 15 and 16 but heading into U17 (and the real college recruitment process) there can be big changes. The pressures to be seen at the elite showcases can make for fierce competition for spots on teams guaranteed acceptances to Disney, Vegas, Jefferson or PDA.

Other teams obviously allow hs soccer at the older ages but draw the line at winter sports whether expressly or by indicating that training absences will not be penalized.

Should say will be penalized (or will not be permitted)

Another recent trend in talent consolidation seems to be movement to destination teams by players who have been playing up. This makes a lot of sense for those who are actually in a lower grade, but what does it take to get a "young" player who is playing with grade to move down to the USYS age appropriate team? It must be a significantly better situation in order to
overcome the college recruitment process difficulties.

The coach

The coach probably isn't enough - there has to be confidence that the team will get enough exposure so that coaches will come watch the one or two juniors on a U16 team.

But the coach contributes to the expectation of team success and the better the reputation and/or college connections a coach has - the more likely a successful team will be looked at even at U16 or U15.

[Cujo]

Re: Talent Consolidation and "Destination" Teams

What do posters think about the movement of talent to one or two teams in the state?

At what ages do you think this happens (if you think it happens) and is it different ages for boys and girls?

What makes a team a destination team? Is it the club, the coach or the players (or some combination)?

How does state cup championship or tournament acceptance play into this?

How does commitment of players to club affect this? Is it better for a team to have soccer only players at U15 and above or is it better for the team to allow players to participate in high school sports? Will this affect the success of the team either on the field or as a destination team?

If it is a bonafide search - I think it is fundamentally a good idea. Unfortunately the search will be primarily focused on the territory between 128 and 495. The geography of the state results in inequities in opportunity. It is a long way from P-town to Pittsfield. I think more (5 at a minimum) would be required: 1) Western Ma, 2) Central Ma, 3) Greater Boston, 4) SE Mass, 5) Cape & Islands. I had a number of players interested in ODP. Who is going to drive from Boston to North Central Ma at rush hour? MA simply does not devote enough resources to scour the state for the top talent, nor have adequate facilities to support such a search if it actually occurred. It some ways it would be like moving Boston Latin to Sudbury and claiming that the school was open to all of the best students out there.

Geography is an issue - no doubt. Maybe that's why things free up a bit at the older ages as Reality indicates - cause the kids can drive themselves (if they have cars - mine certainly don't)

[Cujo]

Geography is an issue - no doubt. Maybe that's why things free up a bit at the older ages as Reality indicates - cause the kids can drive themselves (if they have cars - mine certainly don't)

True but doesn't that further skew the sport towards favoring kids of upper income families?

Yes sadly this sport like many others - is consolidated toward upper income families. It is unfortunate.

Cujo-

You are an idea guy and read the original post as suggesting a change where as the original poster (me) saw the change as one that already takes place and I was interested in what other posters thought about the process.

It took me a couple reads to realize you were looking at the question from a different direction. Kudos to you for wanting to make a change for the better.

Maybe there is a better way for this all to be structured. FSM used to post in favor of the ultra large club multi-layer - rec to elite - freely flowing model. If there were one state wide organization then some of the geographic difficulties could be alleviated.

Thanks for thinking outside the box.

Re: Talent Consolidation and "Destination" Teams

What do posters think about the movement of talent to one or two teams in the state?

At what ages do you think this happens (if you think it happens) and is it different ages for boys and girls?

What makes a team a destination team? Is it the club, the coach or the players (or some combination)?

How does state cup championship or tournament acceptance play into this?

How does commitment of players to club affect this? Is it better for a team to have soccer only players at U15 and above or is it better for the team to allow players to participate in high school sports? Will this affect the success of the team either on the field or as a destination team?

If it is a bonafide search - I think it is fundamentally a good idea. Unfortunately the search will be primarily focused on the territory between 128 and 495. The geography of the state results in inequities in opportunity. It is a long way from P-town to Pittsfield. I think more (5 at a minimum) would be required: 1) Western Ma, 2) Central Ma, 3) Greater Boston, 4) SE Mass, 5) Cape & Islands. I had a number of players interested in ODP. Who is going to drive from Boston to North Central Ma at rush hour? MA simply does not devote enough resources to scour the state for the top talent, nor have adequate facilities to support such a search if it actually occurred. It some ways it would be like moving Boston Latin to Sudbury and claiming that the school was open to all of the best students out there.

Was this originally the pupose of the District Select program?

Maybe there is a better way for this all to be structured. FSM used to post in favor of the ultra large club multi-layer - rec to elite - freely flowing model. If there were one state wide organization then some of the geographic difficulties could be alleviated.

Uh....we have this already. MPS.