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    What would you do?

    You are either coach:

    http://highschool.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1036676

    Yates High School in Houston already had proven it could score a lot of points, topping the century mark five times in its first 13 games. Tuesday night the team topped itself - scoring 100 points in the first half on the way to a 170-35 victory over Houston (Lee) High.

    The totals - both at the half and for the game - broke state records in Texas. The 100-point first half is believed to be the second-highest total all-time in the country.

    But it does not come without controversy. On the day that Yates takes over the top spot in the RivalsHigh Top 100 boys basketball rankings, it figures to be answering questions about sportsmanship. The game was marred by a third-quarter fight and led to a war of words by the coaches afterward.

    "I feel very disrespected right now," Lee coach Jacques Armant told Jenny Dial of The Houston Chronicle. (Read her game story here.) "I don't understand why Yates just kept scoring and pressing when they were up so much. These are kids. It isn't good to do that to other young men."

    Yates coach Greg Wise didn't apologize for his team's play.

    "We practice running, pressing, trapping every day," he told The Chronicle. "If we get to a game and I tell them not to do what we do in practice, I am not coaching well. I am not leaving my starters in the whole game. We have 15 guys, and all 15 play."

    And all play hard, Wise said. He said it isn't fair to tell them to play any other way.

    "They work really hard in practice, and when they go in, they deserve the chance to play hard and compete, too," Wise said. "We are looking for another state championship, and we can't get that unless we are continuing to get better and perfect our game. We aren't scoring on other teams out of disrespect."

    Lee's players apparently felt differently. In the third quarter, one took matters into his own hands with an intentional foul that led to a fight, according to The Chronicle's report.


    Joseph Young finished with 37 points.
    After breaking up the fight, the referees told both coaches they would have to play just five players the remainder of the game. The other players for both teams spent the rest of the second half sitting in the stands.

    But most of the damage had already been done by that point.

    Yates got going early, pouring in 57 points in the first quarter alone. It reached 100 when junior guard Ronnie Lewis hit a 3-pointer in the second quarter. The team was well aware of its total.

    "When Ronnie hit that three, I was on the bench, but I had a smile on my face," Providence commit and senior guard Joseph Young told Texashoops.com, RivalsHigh's partner publication in Texas. "Getting 170, that's a first for me. We keep on setting records."

    Yates, the defending Texas Class 4A state champion, opened the season with a 142-80 win against Dickinson. It has scored 163 against Houston Sam Houston, 148 against Houston Kashmere, 139 against Houston Stephen F. Austin, 131 against San Antonio Country Day, 128 against Houston Westside and 108 against Huntsville (Ala.) Butler this season. Only six times has Yates missed the 100-point mark, and four of those six games were at the Iolani Classic in Hawaii.

    Yates' 100 first-half points ranks second nationally all-time. Loudon, Tenn., scored 158 in a half and wound up scoring 197 in a game in 1956. Yates' 170 points overall ties with Hobbs, N.M., (1969-70 season) for eighth all-time. The national record for points in a game is 211, set in 1964 by Grand Avenue High School in DeQuincy, La.

    Brandon Peters, a Western Kentucky signee, scored a game-high 43 points in the win for Yates (14-0). Young finished with 37, Alex Davis had 25, and ****** Gardner , a Stephen F. Austin signee, had 21 for the Lions. Defensively, Yates held Lee to only 16 points through the first three quarters.

    The result marked the fourth time this season that Yates has won by at least 50 - it fell a point short in its 148-49 victory over Houston (Texas) Kashmere - but is the first time by more than 100. The team, however, appears more concerned with its point total than its margin of victory.

    Yates has scored 1,666 points this season. The team currently is averaging 119 points per game, which would shatter the national record of 114.6 set by Hobbs. Yates also has a chance to break the 1972-73 Houston Wheatley team's record of 31 100-point games in a season.

    That Wheatley team, in addition, recorded 4,567 points in 42 games. If Yates finishes 40-0 and continues its 119 points-per-game average, it will record 4,760 and be ranked second all-time. The Florien, La., team from the 1979-80 season recorded 4,947 points but achieved the mark in 65 games.

    "We're trying to get all of those records," Young said.

    And perhaps a national title along the way, too.

    Here's the scary thing. Now that it is in league play, Yates' schedule the rest of the way doesn't figure to provide many tests until the state tournament. An undefeated season appears realistic.

    The biggest challenge may be sportsmanship. Lee's coach said other teams don't want to play Yates.

    "No coach wants to put his kids in a position to be embarrassed," Armant told The Chronicle. "We have great kids on our team, hard workers, and I am proud that they played the whole game tonight, but you can see how coaches are hesitant to put their kids on the floor with a team that is going to score on them that way."

    #2
    By the ptime the lead was at 40 points, the press should have stopped and the defense should have gone to zone. While on offense, run the shot clock to 5 seconds before shooting. The losing team has the responsibility to stop the offense, but sometimes the winning team has the responsibility too.

    Comment


      #3
      If I were coaching for NEFC, I'd keep running up the score. But since I'm not coaching for NEFC, we'd go to 4-corners and shoot when there were 4-5 seconds left, and use the off-hand. We'd play zone, and definitely no pressing.

      Comment


        #4
        Coach is a loser and should not be in youth sports. His team should know better, too.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
          If I were coaching for NEFC, I'd keep running up the score. But since I'm not coaching for NEFC, we'd go to 4-corners and shoot when there were 4-5 seconds left, and use the off-hand. We'd play zone, and definitely no pressing.
          How badly did your team get beat in the fall?

          Comment


            #6
            The whole newspaper story shows systemic problems in the way youth sport and HS sport in Texas and other places are handled. Why is such a strong basketball program playing in such a low division? Can't each sport at a HS play in an appropriate division?

            Even more interesting is where the seniors mentioned have committed to play in college. There is much more to this story than was published. Is this a private HS that actively recruits players?

            There are many examples of HS's playing in different divisions in the MIAA, e.g. Franklin HS plays soccer in D1, football in D3, hockey in D2, track in B, etc.

            It is a very sensational story. The players can not be benefiting from playing against such inferior opponents. On its face it is disgusting. One has to suspect that the truth is even more disturbing.

            Another question, why are HS basketball teams playing 40 game seasons? College teams don't play so many games. Such is more than 1/2 an NBA season that stretches from October to May!
            Last edited by MASC; 01-07-2010, 01:11 PM. Reason: grammar

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by MASC View Post
              The whole newspaper story shows systemic problems in the way youth sport and HS sport in Texas and other places are handled. Why is such a strong basketball program playing in such a low division? Can't each sport at a HS play in an appropriate division?

              Even more interesting is where the seniors mentioned have committed to play in college. There is much more to this story than was published. Is this a private HS that actively recruits players?

              There are many examples of HS's playing in different divisions in the MIAA, e.g. Franklin HS plays soccer in D1, football in D3, hockey in D2, track in B, etc.

              It is a very sensational story. The players can not be benefiting from playing against such inferior opponents. On its face it is disgusting. One has to suspect that the truth is even more disturbing.

              Another question, why are HS basketball teams playing 40 game seasons? College teams don't play so many games. Such is more than 1/2 an NBA season that stretches from October to May!
              Doesn't this really argue for the establishment of some form of geographically constrained promotion/relegation system to determine competttiveness across all HS sports?

              The same thing goes on in Mass HS soccer. My daughters HS team either lost by 8 goals or won by eight goals all season long. It was ridiculous.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                Doesn't this really argue for the establishment of some form of geographically constrained promotion/relegation system to determine competttiveness across all HS sports?

                The same thing goes on in Mass HS soccer. My daughters HS team either lost by 8 goals or won by eight goals all season long. It was ridiculous.
                Promotion/relegation is a great idea. Unfortunately, the only way it will happen is after a continued history of EXTREME wins/losses such as the one mentioned. Additionally, the powers that be in the MIAA may not even realize that an 8 goal differential in soccer is nearly as bad as the above basketball score

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                  How badly did your team get beat in the fall?
                  I haven't played competitive sports in over 20 years. What's this "your team" nonsense?

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                    Promotion/relegation is a great idea. Unfortunately, the only way it will happen is after a continued history of EXTREME wins/losses such as the one mentioned. Additionally, the powers that be in the MIAA may not even realize that an 8 goal differential in soccer is nearly as bad as the above basketball score
                    Well, in CMASS things have been the same for a long long time. Sutton should be in D1, the inter high in D3, and so on. It has been dangerous to put recreational kids on the same field as All Americans.

                    Does MIAA track injury statistics in any way? If so, I bet they would find this to be another reason to have a better form of managing competition.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                      Promotion/relegation is a great idea. Unfortunately, the only way it will happen is after a continued history of EXTREME wins/losses such as the one mentioned. Additionally, the powers that be in the MIAA may not even realize that an 8 goal differential in soccer is nearly as bad as the above basketball score
                      I made the above post, but have an additional opinion as well. The better team is put in a diificult position with this situation. Obviously, 100+ points diference is ridiculous, but on the flip side, what does that much scoring do for his players? If I'm a college recruiter and I see that a player(s) is scoring 40+ points a game, I'd take a look. If that team won their state title 4 years in a row, college recruiters will take notice of the entire team. Obviously, there is an issue with the level of competition within the league, but it's a tough call to ask players to play down when college $ may be on the horizon.
                      ...they still could've done something to lessen the damage

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                        I made the above post, but have an additional opinion as well. The better team is put in a diificult position with this situation. Obviously, 100+ points diference is ridiculous, but on the flip side, what does that much scoring do for his players? If I'm a college recruiter and I see that a player(s) is scoring 40+ points a game, I'd take a look. If that team won their state title 4 years in a row, college recruiters will take notice of the entire team. Obviously, there is an issue with the level of competition within the league, but it's a tough call to ask players to play down when college $ may be on the horizon.
                        ...they still could've done something to lessen the damage
                        I would think the first thing recruiters would do when faced with outrageous numbers is to check against whom the star player has scored. Most super high scoring in bball and soccer is done against the weaker teams. That's fine for the scoring player, but the real measure is how they perform against the better/playoff teams, relative to their own teammates.

                        In soccer for example, a person scoring 30 goals a season might show on closer examination that say, 25 of the goals were scored against teams less than say .400.

                        I would expect coaches and scouts to filter this data.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                          You are either coach:

                          http://highschool.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1036676

                          Yates High School in Houston already had proven it could score a lot of points, topping the century mark five times in its first 13 games. Tuesday night the team topped itself - scoring 100 points in the first half on the way to a 170-35 victory over Houston (Lee) High.

                          The totals - both at the half and for the game - broke state records in Texas. The 100-point first half is believed to be the second-highest total all-time in the country.

                          But it does not come without controversy. On the day that Yates takes over the top spot in the RivalsHigh Top 100 boys basketball rankings, it figures to be answering questions about sportsmanship. The game was marred by a third-quarter fight and led to a war of words by the coaches afterward.

                          "I feel very disrespected right now," Lee coach Jacques Armant told Jenny Dial of The Houston Chronicle. (Read her game story here.) "I don't understand why Yates just kept scoring and pressing when they were up so much. These are kids. It isn't good to do that to other young men."

                          Yates coach Greg Wise didn't apologize for his team's play.

                          "We practice running, pressing, trapping every day," he told The Chronicle. "If we get to a game and I tell them not to do what we do in practice, I am not coaching well. I am not leaving my starters in the whole game. We have 15 guys, and all 15 play."

                          And all play hard, Wise said. He said it isn't fair to tell them to play any other way.

                          "They work really hard in practice, and when they go in, they deserve the chance to play hard and compete, too," Wise said. "We are looking for another state championship, and we can't get that unless we are continuing to get better and perfect our game. We aren't scoring on other teams out of disrespect."

                          Lee's players apparently felt differently. In the third quarter, one took matters into his own hands with an intentional foul that led to a fight, according to The Chronicle's report.


                          Joseph Young finished with 37 points.
                          After breaking up the fight, the referees told both coaches they would have to play just five players the remainder of the game. The other players for both teams spent the rest of the second half sitting in the stands.

                          But most of the damage had already been done by that point.

                          Yates got going early, pouring in 57 points in the first quarter alone. It reached 100 when junior guard Ronnie Lewis hit a 3-pointer in the second quarter. The team was well aware of its total.

                          "When Ronnie hit that three, I was on the bench, but I had a smile on my face," Providence commit and senior guard Joseph Young told Texashoops.com, RivalsHigh's partner publication in Texas. "Getting 170, that's a first for me. We keep on setting records."

                          Yates, the defending Texas Class 4A state champion, opened the season with a 142-80 win against Dickinson. It has scored 163 against Houston Sam Houston, 148 against Houston Kashmere, 139 against Houston Stephen F. Austin, 131 against San Antonio Country Day, 128 against Houston Westside and 108 against Huntsville (Ala.) Butler this season. Only six times has Yates missed the 100-point mark, and four of those six games were at the Iolani Classic in Hawaii.

                          Yates' 100 first-half points ranks second nationally all-time. Loudon, Tenn., scored 158 in a half and wound up scoring 197 in a game in 1956. Yates' 170 points overall ties with Hobbs, N.M., (1969-70 season) for eighth all-time. The national record for points in a game is 211, set in 1964 by Grand Avenue High School in DeQuincy, La.

                          Brandon Peters, a Western Kentucky signee, scored a game-high 43 points in the win for Yates (14-0). Young finished with 37, Alex Davis had 25, and ****** Gardner , a Stephen F. Austin signee, had 21 for the Lions. Defensively, Yates held Lee to only 16 points through the first three quarters.

                          The result marked the fourth time this season that Yates has won by at least 50 - it fell a point short in its 148-49 victory over Houston (Texas) Kashmere - but is the first time by more than 100. The team, however, appears more concerned with its point total than its margin of victory.

                          Yates has scored 1,666 points this season. The team currently is averaging 119 points per game, which would shatter the national record of 114.6 set by Hobbs. Yates also has a chance to break the 1972-73 Houston Wheatley team's record of 31 100-point games in a season.

                          That Wheatley team, in addition, recorded 4,567 points in 42 games. If Yates finishes 40-0 and continues its 119 points-per-game average, it will record 4,760 and be ranked second all-time. The Florien, La., team from the 1979-80 season recorded 4,947 points but achieved the mark in 65 games.

                          "We're trying to get all of those records," Young said.

                          And perhaps a national title along the way, too.

                          Here's the scary thing. Now that it is in league play, Yates' schedule the rest of the way doesn't figure to provide many tests until the state tournament. An undefeated season appears realistic.

                          The biggest challenge may be sportsmanship. Lee's coach said other teams don't want to play Yates.

                          "No coach wants to put his kids in a position to be embarrassed," Armant told The Chronicle. "We have great kids on our team, hard workers, and I am proud that they played the whole game tonight, but you can see how coaches are hesitant to put their kids on the floor with a team that is going to score on them that way."

                          The coach of the winning team should have stopped the press at about +30. Playing his bench players should have become a priority. His argument that his starters need to work within the system is total BS. If they are not be challenged they are not really learning anything about their defensive and offensive systems that they don't already know well or know that it works. Secondly, injuries and academic ineligibility can have a really detrimental effect on teams that don't get bench players meaningful minutes when the opportunity arises.

                          Having been on both ends of lopsided scores I can say that there is a way to handle large leads. I don't want my team to be treated like it is a charity game and my players are a team of special olympians - on the other hand I don't want to see an All-world guard shooting three's with 2 minutes left and a 100 point lead UNLESS he is headed for a special milestone ie 2,000 point or some state record. That I get.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                            I would think the first thing recruiters would do when faced with outrageous numbers is to check against whom the star player has scored. Most super high scoring in bball and soccer is done against the weaker teams. That's fine for the scoring player, but the real measure is how they perform against the better/playoff teams, relative to their own teammates.

                            In soccer for example, a person scoring 30 goals a season might show on closer examination that say, 25 of the goals were scored against teams less than say .400.

                            I would expect coaches and scouts to filter this data.
                            I agree, but the 30 goals a season might be what gets them the first look before someone else.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                              I agree, but the 30 goals a season might be what gets them the first look before someone else.
                              True, but there should be common etiquette about piling on. If only one coach sits down their star because the game's a laugher, then they are handicapping their player in the stats wars. But, it is the decent thing to do.

                              They should invent weighted goals. Here's how it would work: for every point you score in soccer, you multiply that point by the opponents current winning percentage.

                              You could wait until the end of the season, or keep a running tab during the season as the opponents winning% changes.

                              This approach could be informative.

                              Comment

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