Help with flat back 4

[Unregistered]

Post #13 makes me sick. Sounds like someone who has never played at a high level, coached at a high level or has attended any coaching courses from the NCSAA Adv. National / USSF B or above.

Someone needs to stop regurgitating what they read in coaching books, get some real life experience and actually get a mentor that can help them further understand the variety of different systems that use a four "zonal" defenders.

[Unregistered]

... and another thing, if you want answers to tactical questions, do not come on here looking for intelligent answers. Take the time to research a 5-6 coaches with either a B License/Adv. National Diploma or higher and pick THEIR brains. You will not get what you are looking for by coming on here and leaving it to these folk.

[Unregistered]

Post #13 makes me sick. Sounds like someone who has never played at a high level, coached at a high level or has attended any coaching courses from the NCSAA Adv. National / USSF B or above.

Someone needs to stop regurgitating what they read in coaching books, get some real life experience and actually get a mentor that can help them further understand the variety of different systems that use a four "zonal" defenders.

Isn't #13 from Coach Marino's site?

Anyway, FWIW (zero), I think all of this over thinks the idea for U12. Yes you can play a flat 4 back, but you need to have the right players to do it and expect good results. If you had a solid central defender at 8v8 s/he can probably deal with this and has already started to. S/he needs to be the leader now and organize your defense. I like to have that one very solid defender in the middle and have the second middle player be very fast to help out when you get burned or the ref misses an offsides call. If you can get them to see zones, realize about the second defender/defensive support and weakside defense, then I think you will have made a lot of progress for one year. Baby steps... Just my 2 cents....

[Unregistered]

Isn't #13 from Coach Marino's site?

I think all of this over thinks the idea for U12. Yes you can play a flat 4 back, but you need to have the right players to do it and expect good results. If you had a solid central defender at 8v8 s/he can probably deal with this and has already started to. S/he needs to be the leader now and organize your defense. ....

I think that this person misses the point. If you are coaching U12 or younger even you should not be about finding the "right" player. You should be about teaching the skills necessary for each player to be successful.

[Unregistered]

To find love, you don't go to a whore.
To get facts, you don't go to anonymous blog website.

Email anyone at MASS YOUTH if you want assistance coaching U12s. Don't come here looking for answers.

[Unregistered]

To find love, you don't go to a whore.
To get facts, you don't go to anonymous blog website.

Email anyone at MASS YOUTH if you want assistance coaching U12s. Don't come here looking for answers.

Probably true on both accounts.

However, my xpereince is it is very 4-4-2 is very difficult at younger ages. It is tough to find/have outside midfielders to handle the responsibilites/distance this formation requires. typically, the outside mids, at younger age groups (unless you trulely have exceptional players) are usually out of position. They are either on the attack and cannot get back on D, or supporting the D and cannot get upfield on time to be effective on offense. this leads to a lot of frustration. Keep it simple unult they really have a grasp of 11v11 soccer. then introduce more complex systems. Both you and your kids will be less frustrated.

[Unregistered]

I am a licensed and experienced coach, and I find no fault with the coachmarino article. It's a good starting point for the uninitiated. I don't think you'll find any college coaches going to the site, but I also don't think that's the intended audience.

As for the poster, your players will be better off for you investing the time in their development. Good for you!

[Unregistered]

I think that this person misses the point. If you are coaching U12 or younger even you should not be about finding the "right" player. You should be about teaching the skills necessary for each player to be successful.

BINGO!!! In fact it is sometimes easier to teach the concepts by rotating players you wouldn't necessarily have playing defense. Putting players whose natural tendency to attack on the defensive wings, shows the team that it is OK to go forward from this position. At the same time you are teaching attacking players that they must learn to defend, which is very valuable as players mature and play at higher levels which expect even the forwards to learn to defend all over the field.

[Unregistered]

Probably true on both accounts.

However, my xpereince is it is very 4-4-2 is very difficult at younger ages. It is tough to find/have outside midfielders to handle the responsibilites/distance this formation requires. typically, the outside mids, at younger age groups (unless you trulely have exceptional players) are usually out of position. They are either on the attack and cannot get back on D, or supporting the D and cannot get upfield on time to be effective on offense. this leads to a lot of frustration. Keep it simple unult they really have a grasp of 11v11 soccer. then introduce more complex systems. Both you and your kids will be less frustrated.

This is one of the advantages of 8v8. You can teach these tactical concepts earlier, because you have fewer players confusing the matter and a smaller field for young players to move.

[Unregistered]

BINGO!!! In fact it is sometimes easier to teach the concepts by rotating players you wouldn't necessarily have playing defense. Putting players whose natural tendency to attack on the defensive wings, shows the team that it is OK to go forward from this position. At the same time you are teaching attacking players that they must learn to defend, which is very valuable as players mature and play at higher levels which expect even the forwards to learn to defend all over the field.

Agreed, but frustration and failure have a very large impact on a U12 players ability to "get" a concept. I don't believe putting a player who will likely fail in that position teaches very much. Success on the other hand is a great teacher at that age. Not strictly pigeonholing players, but just increasing certain players chances of success does seem to work with age group.

[Unregistered]

Agreed, but frustration and failure have a very large impact on a U12 players ability to "get" a concept. I don't believe putting a player who will likely fail in that position teaches very much. Success on the other hand is a great teacher at that age. Not strictly pigeonholing players, but just increasing certain players chances of success does seem to work with age group.

You learn from your mistakes just as much as you learn from your success; however, for the teaching method to be successful, it requires patient adults who recognize making mistakes is part of the learning curve. If the adults, and this includes parents as well as coach, are more concerned with winning U12 games then teaching players to play the game correctly, then these kids will not be allowed to make mistakes or given the time needed to learn.

[Unregistered]

You learn from your mistakes just as much as you learn from your success; however, for the teaching method to be successful, it requires patient adults who recognize making mistakes is part of the learning curve. If the adults, and this includes parents as well as coach, are more concerned with winning U12 games then teaching players to play the game correctly, then these kids will not be allowed to make mistakes or given the time needed to learn.

Again I don't disagree, except I would draw the line when we are talking here about 10-11 year olds trying to learn a new defensive scheme. Getting beat and giving up goals is much different then encouraging kids to try to make a move or use the outside of their foot - or even their weaker foot at 10-11 years old. Allowing them to make mistakes and using it as a teachable moment is great - implementing a new defensive scheme as per the original post, when your kids are not physically or intellectually able to grasp it or actually do it is considerably less great. If you set them up to make mistakes (versus allowing them to get into situations where they MAY make a mistake) b/c they are not yet ready, to me that is bad coaching. Its not about winning or losing, but about success and failure. I've seen many "successful" players and games at this level when that team didn't win on the score board.

[Unregistered]

Exuse me but the last place to go is the MA Youth side show.

They have been teaching everyone "pressure, cover, Balance" as defensive principles for years knowing full well that almost everyone played a 4-3-3 with man marking wuing a "diamond" system.

Now please tell me just how that works!

I have a "MYSA" "F", "D", National "C" and participated in the National "B" so I done a lot of course work with this state's finest.

[Unregistered]

Again I don't disagree, except I would draw the line when we are talking here about 10-11 year olds trying to learn a new defensive scheme. Getting beat and giving up goals is much different then encouraging kids to try to make a move or use the outside of their foot - or even their weaker foot at 10-11 years old. Allowing them to make mistakes and using it as a teachable moment is great - implementing a new defensive scheme as per the original post, when your kids are not physically or intellectually able to grasp it or actually do it is considerably less great. If you set them up to make mistakes (versus allowing them to get into situations where they MAY make a mistake) b/c they are not yet ready, to me that is bad coaching. Its not about winning or losing, but about success and failure. I've seen many "successful" players and games at this level when that team didn't win on the score board.

The key is how you match up players on the field. No goals get scored and kids learn a great deal from one another.

[Unregistered]

The key is how you match up players on the field. No goals get scored and kids learn a great deal from one another.

Completely agree, from my original post:

I like to have that one very solid defender in the middle and have the second middle player be very fast to help out when you get burned or the ref misses an offsides call.

There are obviously other combos, strong/weak player, defender/striker, lefty/righty, and many more. My kids play every position throughout the year though I will admit they tend to play 50%+ in a certain position, but they do rotate even as keeper. It doesn't always work out perfectly but if you are flexible along the lines you suggest you improve your odds of a positive outcome.