Sounders for Boys? What am I missing?

[SoccerDadSeattle]

So my son has been asked to play on the sounders academy team...

On the surface, it seems like a great opportunity...

But the more I look at it, the more terrible it seems. What am I missing?

Here are my notes:

1. It's only u15 and u17. So you would have to leave your current club team for sounders u15. Then at U16, you hope the club team that you just ditched for greener pastures wants you back for u16. Then you can ditch them again at 17, and hope they will take you back at u18/19. I cant imagine a club/coach would want a kid that bounces around for better opportunities.

Has anyone dealt with this? Was it hard to get back on the team? I could just imagine at u16 you are stuck with a new team, and same at u18/19. Seems terrible. Forever homeless, hoping to get on somewhere.

2. If you are good enough to play pro (I couldn't find any true homegrown success stories) then you are stuck playing for sounders.

If you play at another ECNL club, and you are good enough to play pro... then you can be drafted anywhere, theoretically for top dollar...

Where if you go to Sounders as a youth, you are bound to play for them, with a crap contract.

Is this right?

I was looking at a couple of MLS salary contracts for kids that are similar that just got signed... and I noticed one that played for sounders is making around 50K and another that didn't play for sounders, similar quality player... is over 200K because he was able to negotiate his contract vs being tied to the youth contract. They have the right to do league minimum, because they own you.

Is this right?

This alone seems terrible. I dont think my kid is going pro... but if that was the goal, wouldn't it be insane to lock in a contract as a youth? And forgo any negotiation or ability to play anywhere as a pro?

The other part is... Sounders 1st team is a top club... so a kid may eventually be good enough to be a pro in Minnesota for the 1st team, but not for sounders 1st team. So then the kid is stuck playing for the sounders B team until you wash up and they release you.

If the goal is to play pro... having all of your options... where to play, contract price... all of that seems so so so important. Being locked into a "we own you" contract seems like a recipe for failure.

3. For the non-delusional parents out there, Isn't youth sports primarily about a team experience? To raise good men and women?

This doesn't seem like a team experience at all. Seems like a transactional experience. They pick you up, and try to replace you with someone better for as long as you are there. Could be a week, a month, a year... anytime.

They are always trying to level up, and the kid is just a transaction.

As well, you dont get the years of bonding, everyone comes and goes...

Seems like signing up for a job, not for youth sports. I get that some parents want to push their kids, and that's cool... but at what cost?

4. For most kids, playing on a youth team is the goal in and of itself. Playing in college is a great aspiration. Playing pro is an anomaly. Seems like with sounders you give up the team, give up on college (they only will release you to a college if they want to) and you are stuck with a path that may lead to 50K per year if you are the lucky one... and one injury later... you have no college, no job. Is this right?

5. Is the quality of soccer better?

Straight up...

Do they win more, is it better training?

I dont know about this...

Looks to me like they are barely playing at all this last year... MLS next is a mess... and even during sounders prime pre-covid they were rarely beating Crossfire teams and run of the mill in DA in general. So I dont get the notion that they are playing better soccer... or better training.

6. The team selection is weird. Really good kids they aren't interested in, mediocre kids they are. It's odd... There are kids from my sons team that they are googley eyed for that don't even start on an ECNL team... and kids that kill it that they have no interest in.

7. If you are wanting to take the college path, this seems like a tough way to get there. I heard from a college recruiter that they aren't really into the academy kids and dont bother going to the events/tournaments to scout, because the negotiation with getting a release is very difficult, and just not worth the hassle. They said why bother with all of that, when you can go find great talent in ECNL.

What am I missing? Is there some intrinsic value that I don't understand?

All things considered, so far... i can't find a single reason to to go sounders, except to be able to post on insta that my kid is better than yours. Maybe that's a good reason. :)

Any insight out there?

[Unregistered]

My son played for Sounders Academy, though it was before they cut U19 & still part of the DA. Some pluses:

1. free - gear, travel, training, everything
2. better soccer training by far
3. excellent athletic trainers
4. academic support/advising/college guidance from a education liaison
5. High visibility to colleges
6. Very well run organization, clear communication on expectations, schedules etc


Things to consider:

1. No playing high school sports
2. training 4x/week
3. Competitive environment - they recruit from all over the country
4. frequent travel and high expectations means your son has to be willing to miss out on a lot of fun activities with school friends etc
5. Kids can be cut at any time -- but any local team will be glad to accept a Sounders player on the roster. Saw this happen and it was no issue in terms of kids finding a new spot

I'm incredibly thankful that my son had an opportunity to be part of the program. He plays D1 now and all his teammates who did not sign with Sounders or the second team are playing D1 at excellent schools. It's not for everyone, but a kid who enjoys the challenge and is ready for that level of discipline will thrive.

[Unregistered]

Also to clarify one thing: you aren't "stuck" playing for sounders. Sounders can pick up a former academy kid before they enter the draft if they want, but if they don't, former players can enter the draft when eligible like anyone else.

[Unregistered]

So my son has been asked to play on the sounders academy team...

On the surface, it seems like a great opportunity...

But the more I look at it, the more terrible it seems. What am I missing?

Here are my notes:

1. It's only u15 and u17. So you would have to leave your current club team for sounders u15. Then at U16, you hope the club team that you just ditched for greener pastures wants you back for u16. Then you can ditch them again at 17, and hope they will take you back at u18/19. I cant imagine a club/coach would want a kid that bounces around for better opportunities.

Has anyone dealt with this? Was it hard to get back on the team? I could just imagine at u16 you are stuck with a new team, and same at u18/19. Seems terrible. Forever homeless, hoping to get on somewhere.

2. If you are good enough to play pro (I couldn't find any true homegrown success stories) then you are stuck playing for sounders.

If you play at another ECNL club, and you are good enough to play pro... then you can be drafted anywhere, theoretically for top dollar...

Where if you go to Sounders as a youth, you are bound to play for them, with a crap contract.

Is this right?

I was looking at a couple of MLS salary contracts for kids that are similar that just got signed... and I noticed one that played for sounders is making around 50K and another that didn't play for sounders, similar quality player... is over 200K because he was able to negotiate his contract vs being tied to the youth contract. They have the right to do league minimum, because they own you.

Is this right?

This alone seems terrible. I dont think my kid is going pro... but if that was the goal, wouldn't it be insane to lock in a contract as a youth? And forgo any negotiation or ability to play anywhere as a pro?

The other part is... Sounders 1st team is a top club... so a kid may eventually be good enough to be a pro in Minnesota for the 1st team, but not for sounders 1st team. So then the kid is stuck playing for the sounders B team until you wash up and they release you.

If the goal is to play pro... having all of your options... where to play, contract price... all of that seems so so so important. Being locked into a "we own you" contract seems like a recipe for failure.

3. For the non-delusional parents out there, Isn't youth sports primarily about a team experience? To raise good men and women?

This doesn't seem like a team experience at all. Seems like a transactional experience. They pick you up, and try to replace you with someone better for as long as you are there. Could be a week, a month, a year... anytime.

They are always trying to level up, and the kid is just a transaction.

As well, you dont get the years of bonding, everyone comes and goes...

Seems like signing up for a job, not for youth sports. I get that some parents want to push their kids, and that's cool... but at what cost?

4. For most kids, playing on a youth team is the goal in and of itself. Playing in college is a great aspiration. Playing pro is an anomaly. Seems like with sounders you give up the team, give up on college (they only will release you to a college if they want to) and you are stuck with a path that may lead to 50K per year if you are the lucky one... and one injury later... you have no college, no job. Is this right?

5. Is the quality of soccer better?

Straight up...

Do they win more, is it better training?

I dont know about this...

Looks to me like they are barely playing at all this last year... MLS next is a mess... and even during sounders prime pre-covid they were rarely beating Crossfire teams and run of the mill in DA in general. So I dont get the notion that they are playing better soccer... or better training.

6. The team selection is weird. Really good kids they aren't interested in, mediocre kids they are. It's odd... There are kids from my sons team that they are googley eyed for that don't even start on an ECNL team... and kids that kill it that they have no interest in.

7. If you are wanting to take the college path, this seems like a tough way to get there. I heard from a college recruiter that they aren't really into the academy kids and dont bother going to the events/tournaments to scout, because the negotiation with getting a release is very difficult, and just not worth the hassle. They said why bother with all of that, when you can go find great talent in ECNL.

What am I missing? Is there some intrinsic value that I don't understand?

All things considered, so far... i can't find a single reason to to go sounders, except to be able to post on insta that my kid is better than yours. Maybe that's a good reason. :)

Any insight out there?

Thanks Bernie, appreciate the insight

[Unregistered]

Thanks Bernie, appreciate the insight

So funny, I was thinking the exact same thing!

[SoccerDadSeattle]

My son played for Sounders Academy, though it was before they cut U19 & still part of the DA. Some pluses:

1. free - gear, travel, training, everything
2. better soccer training by far
3. excellent athletic trainers
4. academic support/advising/college guidance from a education liaison
5. High visibility to colleges
6. Very well run organization, clear communication on expectations, schedules etc


Things to consider:

1. No playing high school sports
2. training 4x/week
3. Competitive environment - they recruit from all over the country
4. frequent travel and high expectations means your son has to be willing to miss out on a lot of fun activities with school friends etc
5. Kids can be cut at any time -- but any local team will be glad to accept a Sounders player on the roster. Saw this happen and it was no issue in terms of kids finding a new spot

I'm incredibly thankful that my son had an opportunity to be part of the program. He plays D1 now and all his teammates who did not sign with Sounders or the second team are playing D1 at excellent schools. It's not for everyone, but a kid who enjoys the challenge and is ready for that level of discipline will thrive.

Thanks for the reply. Really helpful.

How long ago was your son on Sounders Academy? Recently? Just curious if things have changed with college coaches. I just heard that from one coach I know... so maybe it is just one opinion. But he seemed to think it was common knowledge between coaches he knew that it was a pain to recruit kids from MLS academies given the variables, so they don't bother anymore. he did say "anymore"... not that it wasn't done in the past... just that they don't bother now.


I agree with the considerations... and mentioned some originally.

- High school sports is a bummer. Forgot about that.

- Training 4 days per week is pretty normal.

- the competitive environment is part of the rest of the equation... good and bad. Good if you are the stud. Bad if you get bounced after just leaving your other team.

- The travel seems fun. But yeah, this might be a downside. I think of this as a plus. But a friends son plays for 06s and I think they barely traveled or played this last year. Granted covid was a problem... but it was less than other RCL clubs even.

On the positives... curious about a few things from your experience.

1. free - gear, travel, training, everything

This doesn't seem that interesting. Anything free is cool... but at what cost... so Ill leave this in the bonus category.

2. better soccer training by far

How do you judge that? That's a consideration. We've done the SDP thing for a couple of years... and its ok. But not really better, and definitely not better by far.

It can be good because there are a bunch of good players... but so many drills, not a lot of playing.

Is it different with older team?

Im not convinced kids get better running drills where there is no opposition. Totally unrealistic. Pass to cone A. Player A goes to cone be... blah blah blah. It was good... but not great.

Maybe academy is different. But I have watched a lot of their practices and didn't think it was incredible. And this year, it was dismal from what I've heard. Again. covid... but even when we have been there pre-covid, it didn't seem great.


3. excellent athletic trainers
This would be a bonus for sure. Granted, i don't care about it too much. but a positive.

4. academic support/advising/college guidance from a education liaison
Yeah, not worried about this. For my kid in particular. Good grades, not really a bonus. But maybe good for the right family.

5. High visibility to colleges
I think this is a debate... and one of my big concerns. I think that colleges all know they are good players... but back to my question before... will they still recruit given the variables and the pain in the butt?

6. Very well run organization, clear communication on expectations, schedules etc

really? I actually think the communication of this program is really bad. By far worse than any other team we have been a part of. Coaches don't even talk to parents. so maybe I am not understanding what you mean by communication... My experience with SDP was pretty bad communication. Maybe its different with academy? Did you think the communication was bad with SDP and then good with academy? My daughters rec basketball coach is 100x better communicator. :)

[SoccerDadSeattle]

Thanks Bernie, appreciate the insight

Ha. thats funny. But no, im not bernie.
I am asking about sounders... the only time I mentioned crossfire was because they were the only other team around locally that was in DA playing sounders DA team.

[SoccerDadSeattle]

Also to clarify one thing: you aren't "stuck" playing for sounders. Sounders can pick up a former academy kid before they enter the draft if they want, but if they don't, former players can enter the draft when eligible like anyone else.

OK. Maybe I understood this wrongly.

The way I understood it is...

If your son is good enough to be drafted, the sounders wont release for the draft.

If they do release, then its a signal they are washed up. So draft isn't likely.

Why would they take a player that can be drafted and release? Wouldnt they be better off selling the contract vs releasing the player/contract?

It just seems... if you are good enough to play on the first team you are screwed by the league minimum... and if they are willing to release you to the draft, other teams wouldn't be interested.

Sounders can stick you on the second team too. Right? So they could leave you on the second team, keep for first team, sell contract (league minimum with bonus to them) or let you get drafted.

Have you heard of anyone being released to the draft that was drafted successfully?

[Unregistered]

Thanks Bernie, appreciate the insight

Thats beautiful

[Unregistered]

OK. Maybe I understood this wrongly.

The way I understood it is...

If your son is good enough to be drafted, the sounders wont release for the draft.

If they do release, then its a signal they are washed up. So draft isn't likely.

Why would they take a player that can be drafted and release? Wouldnt they be better off selling the contract vs releasing the player/contract?

It just seems... if you are good enough to play on the first team you are screwed by the league minimum... and if they are willing to release you to the draft, other teams wouldn't be interested.

Sounders can stick you on the second team too. Right? So they could leave you on the second team, keep for first team, sell contract (league minimum with bonus to them) or let you get drafted.

Have you heard of anyone being released to the draft that was drafted successfully?

You need to keep in mind there's a depth chart on every team and shifting needs - if a particular team doesn't draft a player it's hardly an indication they are "washed up."

[Unregistered]

Thanks for the reply. Really helpful.

How long ago was your son on Sounders Academy? Recently? Just curious if things have changed with college coaches. I just heard that from one coach I know... so maybe it is just one opinion. But he seemed to think it was common knowledge between coaches he knew that it was a pain to recruit kids from MLS academies given the variables, so they don't bother anymore. he did say "anymore"... not that it wasn't done in the past... just that they don't bother now.


I agree with the considerations... and mentioned some originally.

- High school sports is a bummer. Forgot about that.

- Training 4 days per week is pretty normal.

- the competitive environment is part of the rest of the equation... good and bad. Good if you are the stud. Bad if you get bounced after just leaving your other team.

- The travel seems fun. But yeah, this might be a downside. I think of this as a plus. But a friends son plays for 06s and I think they barely traveled or played this last year. Granted covid was a problem... but it was less than other RCL clubs even.

On the positives... curious about a few things from your experience.

1. free - gear, travel, training, everything

This doesn't seem that interesting. Anything free is cool... but at what cost... so Ill leave this in the bonus category.

2. better soccer training by far

How do you judge that? That's a consideration. We've done the SDP thing for a couple of years... and its ok. But not really better, and definitely not better by far.

It can be good because there are a bunch of good players... but so many drills, not a lot of playing.

Is it different with older team?

Im not convinced kids get better running drills where there is no opposition. Totally unrealistic. Pass to cone A. Player A goes to cone be... blah blah blah. It was good... but not great.

Maybe academy is different. But I have watched a lot of their practices and didn't think it was incredible. And this year, it was dismal from what I've heard. Again. covid... but even when we have been there pre-covid, it didn't seem great.


3. excellent athletic trainers
This would be a bonus for sure. Granted, i don't care about it too much. but a positive.

4. academic support/advising/college guidance from a education liaison
Yeah, not worried about this. For my kid in particular. Good grades, not really a bonus. But maybe good for the right family.

5. High visibility to colleges
I think this is a debate... and one of my big concerns. I think that colleges all know they are good players... but back to my question before... will they still recruit given the variables and the pain in the butt?

6. Very well run organization, clear communication on expectations, schedules etc

really? I actually think the communication of this program is really bad. By far worse than any other team we have been a part of. Coaches don't even talk to parents. so maybe I am not understanding what you mean by communication... My experience with SDP was pretty bad communication. Maybe its different with academy? Did you think the communication was bad with SDP and then good with academy? My daughters rec basketball coach is 100x better communicator. :)

OK, you have a lot of questions -
My kid started in the Discovery program and left the Academy in 2020. There isn't the same level of communication with the Discovery program - it's an ancillary thing. An extended tryout, basically

The Academy program is very well organized, but if you as a parent expect to have direct communication with coaches, you will be disappointed. There's a big parent meeting 1-2 times a year and weekly emails with information (this is what I mean by clear communication), but the kids are expected to take the lead. Parents don't sit in on feedback sessions with the coach or anything. When the team travels, parents can go watch but you can't even stay in the same hotel as the boys. They are teaching the kids to have a professional mindset and take personal responsibility. It's also not a social thing for the parents the way most other teams/clubs are -- no parties, bbqs etc so if that's part of what you want, you won't get it.

You can believe me or not that the training and team environment is better than other options. The only other local organization that comes close is XF. If your son wants a more traditional club experience that is a great option.

Re: the academic advisor, it's not just grades but also things like identifying SAT test dates that don't conflict with the game schedule. Things you can do yourself but it's just part of the support and what I consider a well-run organization.

I can see that some colleges might be hesitant that they could start recruiting a boy who then signs with Sounders -- my son got questions about that, but he was clear he wanted to go to college. I don't know how the landscape has changed with new MLS next league but it hasn't been that long.

What does your son want to do is one of the biggest questions. For my kid, it was the perfect fit. The boys who chose to leave the program usually wanted either less intensity or the chance to play high school sports

[SoccerDadSeattle]

You need to keep in mind there's a depth chart on every team and shifting needs - if a particular team doesn't draft a player it's hardly an indication they are "washed up."

Yeah, I don't know for sure. Thats the point of the post. I am trying to sort this out.

Sounders don't have to draft academy players.

The question I am wondering... if the sounders release a player to be drafted... that would seem to mean they are washed up.

Because the sounders would theoretically keep the player for 1st team or 2nd team, or sell the contract. Only if it isn't sellable, and they don't want the player.. .would they release to draft.

So it seems that's a signal that they are washed up. No one wants to buy (maybe terms are bad), and sounders arent interested.

I could have this wall wrong, that is why I am asking.

And ultimately, the odds of any kid going pro are so minimal that we would have to be insane to be betting on that.

But, if your kid can go pro... wouldn't it be better to have their options open to a free market, vs being tied up by academy contract? All things being equal.

If same player is at Pac vs Sounders...

When it is time to go pro, wouldn't the Pac kid have the advantage? He can go anywhere. No contract tying him up. He can go to Europe or another lesser MLS team. He can be drafted with an open contract price. Manager can try to get a higher salarary vs league minimum.

right? So why would the soon to be pro kid go get locked into a contract for free shoes and travel?

And for the other 99.9%, I wonder if its true that college coaches don't bother. Has anyone else heard this?

[Unregistered]

Thanks Bernie, appreciate the insight

Funny, but let's be honest anyone who has ever been on Crossfire knows Bernie couldn't draft anything so level headed and articulate

[SoccerDadSeattle]

Funny, but let's be honest anyone who has ever been on Crossfire knows Bernie couldn't draft anything so level headed and articulate

Wow. you guys are so nice to Bernie. Geez. Tough crowd. :)

[Unregistered]

Dumb

This is dumb. Seattle Sounders run an excellent academy. If you have a chance to play do so. If you are in the academy and for some reason get cut, you are still an excellent player and any club is going to take you.