ACC or Ivy?

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In the interest of returning back to the subject matter, are the ivys doing anything to ensure academic index in light of the waiver of some prior items required for admission?

You mean like test optional? Almost all schools went test optional for this year's seniors and will be tracking their admitted students very closely over time. They already know high school performance is a better indicator of college success. Yet they also need something to quasi-equalize applicants because grading across high schools is so variable.

[Unregistered]

Covid test optional =equalizer

You mean like test optional? Almost all schools went test optional for this year's seniors and will be tracking their admitted students very closely over time. They already know high school performance is a better indicator of college success. Yet they also need something to quasi-equalize applicants because grading across high schools is so variable.

the next few years will be interesting to see the results of no standardized tests.
The diversity in higher level education was blown open. Let's hope academic achievement is a sign of success - I know my kid doesn't test well but exceeds academically -

[Unregistered]

In the interest of returning back to the subject matter, are the ivys doing anything to ensure academic index in light of the waiver of some prior items required for admission?

For the ‘21s that just finished they “highly encouraged” athletes to have a test score.
Because it was test optional for the applicant pool they may have been slightly more lax on the score needed. Mine got in with her score from sophomore year. My understanding is that ‘22s will be same conditions. Optional for general admissions and athletes getting pre-reads this summer will be encouraged to have a test

[Unregistered]

For the ‘21s that just finished they “highly encouraged” athletes to have a test score.
Because it was test optional for the applicant pool they may have been slightly more lax on the score needed. Mine got in with her score from sophomore year. My understanding is that ‘22s will be same conditions. Optional for general admissions and athletes getting pre-reads this summer will be encouraged to have a test

Even before covid there was 900-something test optional schools, but they typically make it clear you're going to need better than typical grades and other qualifiers. I have a non athlete graduating this year who is not a strong test taker. They had only one under their belt pre Covid. Their score was very ok but they understandably didn't want the extra stress this summer and fall to take it again. Their acceptances wound up being where we expected - rejected from two real reach schools and wait listed at a third. Got into all the well targeted schools and got more merit $ where they were stronger than the average applicant. I am curious to see how this all works going forward and what schools find studying this class.

[Unregistered]

Even before covid there was 900-something test optional schools, but they typically make it clear you're going to need better than typical grades and other qualifiers. I have a non athlete graduating this year who is not a strong test taker. They had only one under their belt pre Covid. Their score was very ok but they understandably didn't want the extra stress this summer and fall to take it again. Their acceptances wound up being where we expected - rejected from two real reach schools and wait listed at a third. Got into all the well targeted schools and got more merit $ where they were stronger than the average applicant. I am curious to see how this all works going forward and what schools find studying this class.

The equity issues associated with standardized tests are real, and I think the climate is right to phase them out. The question is what replaces them? Colleges still need a method to mitigate academic risk and demonstrate excellence. Status, Rankings and selectivity still matter. a lot.

[Unregistered]

The equity issues associated with standardized tests are real, and I think the climate is right to phase them out. The question is what replaces them? Colleges still need a method to mitigate academic risk and demonstrate excellence. Status, Rankings and selectivity still matter. a lot.

In the case of the Ivies, the schools still need some way of ensuring that athletes with below-standard academic records will manage to succeed in their schools. Since they need to make recruiting decisions before essays are written and applications completed, how are they going to handle pre-reads if there are no standardized tests? Two years of grades alone is not enough; at least having an SAT score that hit a certain range provided a bit more confidence.

[Unregistered]

The equity issues associated with standardized tests are real, and I think the climate is right to phase them out. The question is what replaces them? Colleges still need a method to mitigate academic risk and demonstrate excellence. Status, Rankings and selectivity still matter. a lot.

They definitely had real issues and needs a re-work, yet they also served a much needed purpose - to equalize the playing field somewhat. A high GPA at one school isn't necessarily the same thing at another. If applicants are local then admissions offices know what high schools send them good-fit students, but that isn't always the case. If a good school has 40,000 applicants, many from across the country, they need something else to use besides GPA to whittle things down to a more manageable number, where they then take a ddper dive into activities, recommendations etc

[Unregistered]

The equity issues associated with standardized tests are real, and I think the climate is right to phase them out. The question is what replaces them? Colleges still need a method to mitigate academic risk and demonstrate excellence. Status, Rankings and selectivity still matter. a lot.

Schools are not at all ready to phase them out because as posted above they serve and important purpose at many schools. They will look at this year's freshmen class very closely.

I went to a crap high school and did great, top 5 students in my class and had good (not great) scores (literally zero test prep, certainly no $1000 test prep classes since my parents were poor as dirt). Went to a great college but wholly crap I was unprepared for college and felt everyone was way smarter than me. First year was a real struggle and adjustment. Some high schools just aren't very rigorous while some are overly so - to the point that many very smart kids only get decent GPAs. Good test scores can help them demonstrate they are qualified.

[Unregistered]

In the case of the Ivies, the schools still need some way of ensuring that athletes with below-standard academic records will manage to succeed in their schools. Since they need to make recruiting decisions before essays are written and applications completed, how are they going to handle pre-reads if there are no standardized tests? Two years of grades alone is not enough; at least having an SAT score that hit a certain range provided a bit more confidence.

Ivies make their decisions after junior grades are submitted (3 years of grades) - they don't "commit" anyone until applications are in - at least for boys. They are an a "pipeline" but need to submit junior final grades (and SAT/ACT scores are highly encouraged) with an application in the fall - interviews with alumni too

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Schools are not at all ready to phase them out because as posted above they serve and important purpose at many schools. They will look at this year's freshmen class very closely.

I went to a crap high school and did great, top 5 students in my class and had good (not great) scores (literally zero test prep, certainly no $1000 test prep classes since my parents were poor as dirt). Went to a great college but wholly crap I was unprepared for college and felt everyone was way smarter than me. First year was a real struggle and adjustment. Some high schools just aren't very rigorous while some are overly so - to the point that many very smart kids only get decent GPAs. Good test scores can help them demonstrate they are qualified.

I wrote the "equity issues.." post and I agree with you and the above two posters. The climate may be right, but until something else emerges they won't go away, because of all the issues you raise ++

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Ivies make their decisions after junior grades are submitted (3 years of grades) - they don't "commit" anyone until applications are in - at least for boys. They are an a "pipeline" but need to submit junior final grades (and SAT/ACT scores are highly encouraged) with an application in the fall - interviews with alumni too

You "commit to the application process".
Covid recruiting timelines have pushed this out (thankfully), but for the '21s that I know, the coach commitments from Ivy came on the same timeline as the other D1 schools. What other choice is there?

So with the present recruiting calendar that means starting in Aug after Sophomore year and before Junior year classes even start. So, if you want early commit to Ivy you need to bank reasonable test scores during your Sophomore year. Late commits may need better test scores depending on AI of the early commits.

[Unregistered]

You "commit to the application process".
Covid recruiting timelines have pushed this out (thankfully), but for the '21s that I know, the coach commitments from Ivy came on the same timeline as the other D1 schools. What other choice is there?

So with the present recruiting calendar that means starting in Aug after Sophomore year and before Junior year classes even start. So, if you want early commit to Ivy you need to bank reasonable test scores during your Sophomore year. Late commits may need better test scores depending on AI of the early commits.

clarifying: this is girls

[Unregistered]

clarifying: this is girls

yup. diff for boys