Boys 05

[Unregistered]

4H are defending 05 state cup winners. Having to stick to a fixed roster didn't seem to hurt them any...

And refs always check player cards during league play, not just cups.

LOL....And neither did the fact that the DA teams were not playing. Because if they had been in State Cup, 4H is then not even the best team from Salem. No hate, just stating a fact.

[Unregistered]

Sure, that’s why IFC, 4H and SSC are on top of the table behind updx and Westside post DA in the 04 division. You’ll see similarities next year, keep over looking the other clubs then complain about “boot ball” cause your kid lost meanwhile kids in Brazil are toe poking the ball to score and sending long balls while that’s frowned upon here.

Hey, I am all about hearing Westside is looking up at other teams in the table! And I am also all about playing it over the top as well. What I am not okay with, is just kicking it as hard as you can with no purpose or direction.

[Unregistered]

Hey, I am all about hearing Westside is looking up at other teams in the table! And I am also all about playing it over the top as well. What I am not okay with, is just kicking it as hard as you can with no purpose or direction.

4H is not a bootball team, for what it's worth.

[Unregistered]

Sure, that’s why IFC, 4H and SSC are on top of the table behind updx and Westside post DA in the 04 division. You’ll see similarities next year, keep over looking the other clubs then complain about “boot ball” cause your kid lost meanwhile kids in Brazil are toe poking the ball to score and sending long balls while that’s frowned upon here.

The purpose of "play it out of the back" is not to discourage certain styles of soccer that someone considers unsporting. It's to help kids get comfortable with the ball, especially under pressure. Kids in Brazil already know how to play soccer and can play it out of the back. And kids in Brazil are generally playing pickup soccer, not organized pay-to-play club soccer where a coach is trying to justify his paycheck by filling a trophy case.

It's about discouraging a club business model where technique is neglected in favor of tactics at a younger age--a strategy that can produce lots of wins in middle school ages but doesn't develop good soccer players long term. The clubs that will have the best success in the high school ages are those that have (whether from organic development, recruiting, or some combination) the best soccer players. Winning track meets like can be done at U13 won't work any more.

[Unregistered]

LOL....And neither did the fact that the DA teams were not playing. Because if they had been in State Cup, 4H is then not even the best team from Salem. No hate, just stating a fact.

Not to mention that these coaches outside of the DA would struggle with the “no re-entry” rule. They sub like hockey

[Unregistered]

The purpose of "play it out of the back" is not to discourage certain styles of soccer that someone considers unsporting. It's to help kids get comfortable with the ball, especially under pressure. Kids in Brazil already know how to play soccer and can play it out of the back. And kids in Brazil are generally playing pickup soccer, not organized pay-to-play club soccer where a coach is trying to justify his paycheck by filling a trophy case.

It's about discouraging a club business model where technique is neglected in favor of tactics at a younger age--a strategy that can produce lots of wins in middle school ages but doesn't develop good soccer players long term. The clubs that will have the best success in the high school ages are those that have (whether from organic development, recruiting, or some combination) the best soccer players. Winning track meets like can be done at U13 won't work any more.

There are 1-2 coaches in the area that combine development with great results and win

[Unregistered]

The purpose of "play it out of the back" is not to discourage certain styles of soccer that someone considers unsporting. It's to help kids get comfortable with the ball, especially under pressure. Kids in Brazil already know how to play soccer and can play it out of the back. And kids in Brazil are generally playing pickup soccer, not organized pay-to-play club soccer where a coach is trying to justify his paycheck by filling a trophy case.

It's about discouraging a club business model where technique is neglected in favor of tactics at a younger age--a strategy that can produce lots of wins in middle school ages but doesn't develop good soccer players long term. The clubs that will have the best success in the high school ages are those that have (whether from organic development, recruiting, or some combination) the best soccer players. Winning track meets like can be done at U13 won't work any more.

The "play it out of the back" coaches can be just as absolutist, self-justifying, "big hat no cattle" coaches as the "if only our best athletes played soccer, lets grip and rip" neanderthals.

Technique neglected in favor of tactics? Give me a break. Go read what the Kleiban brothers write on that meaningless distinction, or the suddenly in fashion tovo crowd. Playing it out of the back is a tactical decision.

[Unregistered]

The purpose of "play it out of the back" is not to discourage certain styles of soccer that someone considers unsporting. It's to help kids get comfortable with the ball, especially under pressure. Kids in Brazil already know how to play soccer and can play it out of the back. And kids in Brazil are generally playing pickup soccer, not organized pay-to-play club soccer where a coach is trying to justify his paycheck by filling a trophy case.

It's about discouraging a club business model where technique is neglected in favor of tactics at a younger age--a strategy that can produce lots of wins in middle school ages but doesn't develop good soccer players long term. The clubs that will have the best success in the high school ages are those that have (whether from organic development, recruiting, or some combination) the best soccer players. Winning track meets like can be done at U13 won't work any more.

Don’t try to explain to these win now Neanderthals. Their kids can’t handle this type of play so they don’t understand it.

[Unregistered]

There are 1-2 coaches in the area that combine development with great results and win

And they are.... ?

[Unregistered]

The "play it out of the back" coaches can be just as absolutist, self-justifying, "big hat no cattle" coaches as the "if only our best athletes played soccer, lets grip and rip" neanderthals.

Technique neglected in favor of tactics? Give me a break. Go read what the Kleiban brothers write on that meaningless distinction, or the suddenly in fashion tovo crowd. Playing it out of the back is a tactical decision.

Agreed. The idea of building out is just another way to be effective in the game. Until recently 99% of the games played in this area were very direct and direct only. Now that kids are learning a different style they can be unpredictable. Playing direct or building out? Which one is better? My answer is neither. You use each of the tactics to create an opportunity to use the other tactic. I bet that’s waaaaay too deep for most. Travel to TOVO and you’ll learn that perception and how fast your brain processes information on the field determines a good player.

So when you see your child standing in lines passing and following in a linear exercise you’ll understand that your child’s coach is waaaaay behind the game.

[Unregistered]

And they are.... ?

They are at my club not your club

[Unregistered]

The "play it out of the back" coaches can be just as absolutist, self-justifying, "big hat no cattle" coaches as the "if only our best athletes played soccer, lets grip and rip" neanderthals.

Certainly; everything has its place.

Technique neglected in favor of tactics? Give me a break. Go read what the Kleiban brothers write on that meaningless distinction, or the suddenly in fashion tovo crowd. Playing it out of the back is a tactical decision.

Not one of the Kleibans, but this article http://brasherblog.************/2012...icans-too.html sums up my opinion.

And here's GK himself on the subject: http://blog.3four3.com/2013/10/31/po...-at-any-level/
Of course, if you read his advice between the lines, you COULD interpret that as: to improve players tactically, put them in a lower division so they will have more time to react (lower speed of play) and thus not need the technical skill to make the next pass. While I don't think that's what he really meant... it could be read that way. He is correct, of course, that players that know how to get open to receive a pass will have more time to decide what to do with it than players who are marked as soon as they receive the ball, so that the tactic a) getting open if you don't have the ball and b) passing to open players when you do, is very important. But sooner or later, you're going to run into a smart pressing team that aggressively marks everyone within range of the player with the ball, at which point being able to dribble around people and/or engage in one-touch play will become essential. (Or simply hoof it over the top, and hope the linesman's flag stays down).

A lot, at any rate, depends on what you are trying to accomplish. If you are trying to improve the soccer skills of non-elite athletes (rec or even OYSA division one level players), players who will never make a DA team but love to play and want to maximize their potential, then improving their tactics is a great way to do it. A tactically-sound, technically deficient team might even be able to beat one that is the reverse.

OTOH... if you are trying to develop elite players, you need to develop all facets of their ability. And age matters here--at younger ages, ball control is more easily mastered than at older ages; at older ages, the higher level cognitive functions are more receptive to learning advanced formations and such.

A DA team whose first instinct is to send it over the top, probably is focusing on the wrong thing.

[Unregistered]

Agreed. The idea of building out is just another way to be effective in the game. Until recently 99% of the games played in this area were very direct and direct only. Now that kids are learning a different style they can be unpredictable. Playing direct or building out? Which one is better? My answer is neither. You use each of the tactics to create an opportunity to use the other tactic. I bet that’s waaaaay too deep for most. Travel to TOVO and you’ll learn that perception and how fast your brain processes information on the field determines a good player.

So when you see your child standing in lines passing and following in a linear exercise you’ll understand that your child’s coach is waaaaay behind the game.

At high levels of soccer, "hoofing it" is often discouraged because in many cases, it results in a turnover--few teams can reliably play longballs and maintain possession at a high percentage. And in high-level soccer, turnovers and possession matter--pro teams, good ones at any rate, turn the ball over far less than in youth.

In many youth games, including (sadly) the DA, possession matters far less. Passes bounce off feet. Players try to beat defenders one-on-one and lose the ball. Scrums ensue, in which nobody has clear possession of the ball. If the other team is likely to turn it back over, why worry about possession?

And why the continual mention of TOVO? This is soccer 101 stuff; you don't need an expensive trip to Barcelona to train with Cruyff's son-in-law to learn this insight. The trip might be fun, and the football culture itself is probably worth the price of the ticket. But TOVO, schmovo.

[Unregistered]

Certainly; everything has its place.



Not one of the Kleibans, but this article http://brasherblog.************/2012...icans-too.html sums up my opinion.

And here's GK himself on the subject: http://blog.3four3.com/2013/10/31/po...-at-any-level/
Of course, if you read his advice between the lines, you COULD interpret that as: to improve players tactically, put them in a lower division so they will have more time to react (lower speed of play) and thus not need the technical skill to make the next pass. While I don't think that's what he really meant... it could be read that way. He is correct, of course, that players that know how to get open to receive a pass will have more time to decide what to do with it than players who are marked as soon as they receive the ball, so that the tactic a) getting open if you don't have the ball and b) passing to open players when you do, is very important. But sooner or later, you're going to run into a smart pressing team that aggressively marks everyone within range of the player with the ball, at which point being able to dribble around people and/or engage in one-touch play will become essential. (Or simply hoof it over the top, and hope the linesman's flag stays down).

A lot, at any rate, depends on what you are trying to accomplish. If you are trying to improve the soccer skills of non-elite athletes (rec or even OYSA division one level players), players who will never make a DA team but love to play and want to maximize their potential, then improving their tactics is a great way to do it. A tactically-sound, technically deficient team might even be able to beat one that is the reverse.

OTOH... if you are trying to develop elite players, you need to develop all facets of their ability. And age matters here--at younger ages, ball control is more easily mastered than at older ages; at older ages, the higher level cognitive functions are more receptive to learning advanced formations and such.

A DA team whose first instinct is to send it over the top, probably is focusing on the wrong thing.

Another way to interpret what GK wrote above - quit putting your teams in the wrong division, particularly early in implementing a possession style of play.

A mistake we seem to make over and over again in our club, particularly by the more progressive/possession oriented coaches.

As for developing elite players

[Unregistered]

They are at my club not your club

Sure they are.