Best way to teach possession ball?

[Unregistered]

Reality Check

Thanks for your reply. One thing though, and I don’t mean this in a negative way, but I’m not sure you read my post very carefully. My point was, in fact, that numbers ARE irrelevant when it comes to development, and that coaching is the issue when it comes to lack of development in Oregon.

But that aside, I do have a few comments relative to your post.

Firstly, I don’t agree that the “DEMANDS of us parents to win at younger ages” is the cause of poor coaching or the reason Oregon teams play kick ball. That sounds more like a weak excuse of an incapable and untalented coach. I think the cause of poor coaching is simply poor coaching. I good coach should have little problem dealing with parents. Here’s some context.

First, I don’t buy into the tired idea that quality development is inconsistent with winning and getting results. I hear a lot of pseudo soccer intellectuals saying things like “if you do a good job developing players, you’re going to lose a lot of games in the early years.” I don’t buy it. And funny thing is, the coaches I hear this from the most turn out to be the worst coaches. The kinds that make you throw up in your mouth when watching their team play smash ball. De Anza played the same way at U10 as they play today, and by gosh, they dominated back then too.

Second, I’m really starting to sour on the term “possession soccer”. Why? The term seems to suggest that there’s some sort of coaching choice between “possession soccer” and “long ball” or “direct” soccer. I think this is a false choice, or, as Socrates would say, a false dilemma. To clarify, think for a minute about top professional league teams all over the world. If you watch any game, whether the Sirie A league, English premier league, Braileiro Serie A league, the Portland Timbers etc., those teams all possess the ball. What I mean by this is that they pass the dam ball. Sure, Barcelona achieves more possession than Manchester United, but Manchester United still passes the dam ball, a lot, over and over, probing defenses, shifting the point of attack, seeking to unbalance the defense, trying to break other teams down, the way the game should be played. I think if you went to any of the coaches of any of these teams and said “what type of soccer do you like to play, long ball or possession” they would think you were an idiot and wonder how you managed to get past security. Now of course the typical response to this point is “we’re talking about 10 years olds, not Barcelona”. And to that, I call bullpucky. Go to Barcelona’s youth program, or Manchester United, or (insert major professional club here, other than Portland Timbers :) ) and guess what. They play just like the full on professional team. Sure, they may not be as proficient as the pros, passes may be less accurate, but by gosh, they pass the dam ball. Seems this is an alien concept, though, in the U.S. I think rather than “possession soccer”, I’m going to call it “achieving optimum effective competitive soccer capability” and I’m going to call “direct” or “long ball” soccer, “shortchanging ambitious youth soccer players’ ability to achieve optimum effective competitive soccer capability due to subpar coaching ability and knowledge”.

So, long story short, I don’t think the parents cause bad coaching. Any decent coach can deal with that harmless group and achieve results by “achieving optimum effective competitive soccer capability.”

In the real world of US youth soccer if your team is not winning even at the lower ages the parents of the kids who are PAYING will move that MONEY to the clubs that are (see also THUSC, FC and OR-Xfire). It's nice to think that a good coach's reputation will attract and retain quality players but that is not REALITY in pay to play youth sports. Is this a 100% rule? No, but it is the experience of 85% of the coaches and clubs across the country. You either design your club program to attract and RETAIN players or you go out of business and that business is delivering a winning feeling for the parents who then want to give you money!

As for your observations about style here is a tidbit I got from several D1 college coaches this past year on the recruiting trail. "When we see players that understand and can execute possession play we are getting a "finished product" that we don't have to do remedial work with. It's easy to teach direct or long ball soccer but it takes years and years to develop a complete understanding of the possession game."

Hence if your player wants to move to the next level or beyond developing their understanding of and ability to execute the possession game under pressure is more valuable than putting 30 goals in the net in a long ball system.

[Unregistered]

Troglodyte

You soccer people are so funny. ......

No need to read any further.

When you get a more complete understanding of the game and terms you might understand how ridiculous your post was but I suspect it will be a few more years and another 100 games before you "get it".

[Unregistered]

You soccer people are so funny. ......

No need to read any further.

When you get a more complete understanding of the game and terms you might understand how ridiculous your post was but I suspect it will be a few more years and another 100 games before you "get it".

I could care less if you read any of my post. I'm not a soccer person...have a child who loves to play and so I support it as much as I can...but, like most non-soccer people agree, the reason your average fan doesn't like soccer in the U.S. is because of arrogant asses like yourself.....the soccer know it alls who think there game is so special and they are way smarter than everyone else...give me a break...like with everyother sport, its a fricking game that kids play and that a very few will ever go on to make money at....it's a game that is played to win...if you don't like the fact that a team beats you because they utilized the long ball...I'm sorry, and if your coach isn't teaching the "complete terms of the game" then go somewhere else...just quit whining!!

[Unregistered]

You soccer people are so funny. ......

No need to read any further.

When you get a more complete understanding of the game and terms you might understand how ridiculous your post was but I suspect it will be a few more years and another 100 games before you "get it".

Oh, and by the way...you called me a "troglodyte", which I am far from...that is why I am on here trying to get more of a perspective about the game. Furthermore, I am a highly educated person who is far from being a troglodyte.

And based on what I have learned by watching top teams in WA, OR, and CA as well as the professional game...is exactly what I prev posted......all teams utilize the long ball to score to create 1 v 1 situations.

If you would get out from under your "i'm a soccer know it all" and YOU stop being a troglodyte as you called me, then you too might recognize that the long ball is part of the game. but then again it is likely that your kids team hasn't played those top teams from wa or ca and it just hurts even more for you to know that a non soccer parents child is on a team that does..lol

[Unregistered]

If you only knew what you were talking about!

Oh, and by the way...you called me a "troglodyte", which I am far from...that is why I am on here trying to get more of a perspective about the game. Furthermore, I am a highly educated person who is far from being a troglodyte.

And based on what I have learned by watching top teams in WA, OR, and CA as well as the professional game...is exactly what I prev posted......all teams utilize the long ball to score to create 1 v 1 situations.

If you would get out from under your "i'm a soccer know it all" and YOU stop being a troglodyte as you called me, then you too might recognize that the long ball is part of the game. but then again it is likely that your kids team hasn't played those top teams from wa or ca and it just hurts even more for you to know that a non soccer parents child is on a team that does..lol

First, my player has and is playing at the highest levels nationally so you can take the personal attack so popular here and stuff your pipe and smoke it.

Second, you get and gain ZERO credibility by trying to distance yourself from the game your players loves so stop being an Iconoclast and join the group? The first thing you need to understand is that there is a difference between a long pass within the style of possession soccer and a long ball or the constant use of the long ball on both ends of the pitch. I could take hour or more to explain the difference between direct soccer and possession soccer but I don't have the time.

In short when you see possession soccer executed properly the light will come on in your head and you will say to yourself...oh now I understand what they were talking about. Unless you have watch ECNL teams or gone to Surf you have NOT seen it executed at the highest level. I suggest that you watch Barcelona or the Swedish National teams to get a better understanding of what it really means to play possession soccer.

Here is the number one thing to look for and measure a teams commitment to that style by. On the Defensive end to they kick it out or kick it long when pressured OR do they find a team mate no matter how close to pass to. If they are making close passes on the defensive end then you know that you are watching a team committed to possession Futbol!

Do possession teams make long passes to players making a run from the back or opposite side? Yes, but that is not long ball soccer.....that is a P A S S.

Sorry that you think someone who understands the game is an arrogant ass but we are trying to elevate the understanding of the game here in the Colonies so that we don't look like Futbol Troglodytes to the rest of the world!

[Unregistered]

It's about Athletes man

As for your observations about style here is a tidbit I got from several D1 college coaches this past year on the recruiting trail. "When we see players that understand and can execute possession play we are getting a "finished product" that we don't have to do remedial work with. It's easy to teach direct or long ball soccer but it takes years and years to develop a complete understanding of the possession game."

Hence if your player wants to move to the next level or beyond developing their understanding of and ability to execute the possession game under pressure is more valuable than putting 30 goals in the net in a long ball system.[/QUOTE]

That's all fine and dandy, but theses D-1 coaches are first and foremost looking for great athletes. Someone on here keeps saying you don't have to be a great athlete to play great possession soccer. This may be true, but you do have to be a great athlete to play possession soccer on a Xfire, DeAnza, Onyx..... team, not even to mention the level of athlete you have to be to play D-1. Xfire dominates from the get go because they have the most athletes to chose from and then they focus on developing their soccer skills over many years. Many young kids have great footskills, but can not hang with the athletes. The key to success is focusing on developing the best athletes, and keeping them playing soccer over the long run, instead of losing them to the more classic American sports.

[Unregistered]

First, my player has and is playing at the highest levels nationally so you can take the personal attack so popular here and stuff your pipe and smoke it.

Second, you get and gain ZERO credibility by trying to distance yourself from the game your players loves so stop being an Iconoclast and join the group? The first thing you need to understand is that there is a difference between a long pass within the style of possession soccer and a long ball or the constant use of the long ball on both ends of the pitch. I could take hour or more to explain the difference between direct soccer and possession soccer but I don't have the time.

In short when you see possession soccer executed properly the light will come on in your head and you will say to yourself...oh now I understand what they were talking about. Unless you have watch ECNL teams or gone to Surf you have NOT seen it executed at the highest level. I suggest that you watch Barcelona or the Swedish National teams to get a better understanding of what it really means to play possession soccer.

Here is the number one thing to look for and measure a teams commitment to that style by. On the Defensive end to they kick it out or kick it long when pressured OR do they find a team mate no matter how close to pass to. If they are making close passes on the defensive end then you know that you are watching a team committed to possession Futbol!

Do possession teams make long passes to players making a run from the back or opposite side? Yes, but that is not long ball soccer.....that is a P A S S.

Sorry that you think someone who understands the game is an arrogant ass but we are trying to elevate the understanding of the game here in the Colonies so that we don't look like Futbol Troglodytes to the rest of the world!

Wow, you are actually agreeing with my post that you initially strongly criticized and resorted to saying I must not understand soccer. Just go back and remove long ball with long pass and that's exactly what I was saying. I'm still learning the soccer teminology. I clearly stated that what I was saying was different from boot ball and that it is utilized within possession soccer, especially when I was referring to the wa and ca teams. The main reasoning for my post is that I was recently at a game (our team truly works on possession utilizing what you stated above) and after several passes amongst the backs they quickly moved the ball to a wing who saw an opening to pass the ball past the other teams back line and to her forward....the ball never caught air...stayed on the ground and went through several other players...to our forward who then played the ball 1 v 1 on the keeper and scored. Afterwards, I heard parents from the other team complaining about how we scored because of "boot ball". that's what drives me nuts....because we are a team that works hard at possession soccer!

So, I will stop rambling now and just wanted to make the point that "long passes" to a forward are part of the game :-)

[Unregistered]

Not the question

As for your observations about style here is a tidbit I got from several D1 college coaches this past year on the recruiting trail. "When we see players that understand and can execute possession play we are getting a "finished product" that we don't have to do remedial work with. It's easy to teach direct or long ball soccer but it takes years and years to develop a complete understanding of the possession game."

Hence if your player wants to move to the next level or beyond developing their understanding of and ability to execute the possession game under pressure is more valuable than putting 30 goals in the net in a long ball system.

That's all fine and dandy, but theses D-1 coaches are first and foremost looking for great athletes. Someone on here keeps saying you don't have to be a great athlete to play great possession soccer. This may be true, but you do have to be a great athlete to play possession soccer on a Xfire, DeAnza, Onyx..... team, not even to mention the level of athlete you have to be to play D-1. Xfire dominates from the get go because they have the most athletes to chose from and then they focus on developing their soccer skills over many years. Many young kids have great footskills, but can not hang with the athletes. The key to success is focusing on developing the best athletes, and keeping them playing soccer over the long run, instead of losing them to the more classic American sports.[/QUOTE]

Yes to play for the top 40 D1 and top 20 D2 schools they are going to want fast or quick ladies. But the question on the thread is how do you teach possession soccer. We do have enough of athletes in the Metro area it's just that they are spread out over four or five clubs which makes it hard to "show our stuff" to the outside US soccer community. Which is why the other thread about professionally run clubs is relevant.

Dilution causes three problems for Oregon Soccer. The most obvious is that we rarely put together a team with more than 10 top quality players where as the better run clubs from large metro areas regularly put together teams with 12-14 high quality players which allows them to sustain momentum despite injuries or a tight weekend tournament schedule.

The second thing that has been mentioned here is that dilution of talent between clubs also dilutes coaching quality and increases coaching turnover. Quality clubs with a tradition of development and success attract the best coaches who have longer tenure than what is typical here in Oregon. In quality clubs the DOC does not snake the best teams and instead works to develop coaches and promote the club philosophy to attract the best "new" coaching talent.

The third thing that dilution does to hold back Oregon soccer is that it dilutes the corporate support available to augment club income which allows the better run clubs in WA & CA and else where to pay their coaches about double are best coaches get per team.

The effects of dilution prevents most of the clubs in the area from teaching a possession style at the earlier ages because as mentioned previously parents vote with their wallets and it is the rare parent that really understands that at U10 that soccer is about development. Consequently work on possession soccer has historically not started in our area until U13, if at all, and our teams are handicapped playing against the teams from larger more professionally run clubs.

The simple answer to the first question is coaching but the larger answer includes all the things that influence the formation and the ongoing success of a club.

[Unregistered]

I'll get flamed by the parents of the kids in the other clubs but given the quality of coaching and style of play of the club I would choose BSC. Granted they have not built a reputation of winning at the highest levels but as I explained when you are a club truly committed to development soccer wins are a bonus not the goal.

DISCLAIMER: I do not now or have I ever had a player at the BSC but know ST and other coaches there and understand what they are trying to build.

FC would be my next choice but the coaching turnover makes it more difficult on your player to have the level of consistency to progress year over year.

Agree with you on that regarding BSC. Just because your own a winning team does not mean you have a winning coach at U11 or U12 teaching possession soccer.

[Unregistered]

First, my player has and is playing at the highest levels nationally so you can take the personal attack so popular here and stuff your pipe and smoke it.

Second, you get and gain ZERO credibility by trying to distance yourself from the game your players loves so stop being an Iconoclast and join the group? The first thing you need to understand is that there is a difference between a long pass within the style of possession soccer and a long ball or the constant use of the long ball on both ends of the pitch. I could take hour or more to explain the difference between direct soccer and possession soccer but I don't have the time.

In short when you see possession soccer executed properly the light will come on in your head and you will say to yourself...oh now I understand what they were talking about. Unless you have watch ECNL teams or gone to Surf you have NOT seen it executed at the highest level. I suggest that you watch Barcelona or the Swedish National teams to get a better understanding of what it really means to play possession soccer.

Here is the number one thing to look for and measure a teams commitment to that style by. On the Defensive end to they kick it out or kick it long when pressured OR do they find a team mate no matter how close to pass to. If they are making close passes on the defensive end then you know that you are watching a team committed to possession Futbol!

Do possession teams make long passes to players making a run from the back or opposite side? Yes, but that is not long ball soccer.....that is a P A S S.

Sorry that you think someone who understands the game is an arrogant ass but we are trying to elevate the understanding of the game here in the Colonies so that we don't look like Futbol Troglodytes to the rest of the world!

Yeah, sure your player is on the national team and plays at the highest level.

What is up with the comment:

"Unless you have watched ECNL or gone to Surf you have NOT seen it executed at the highest level"

***??? ECNLL and Surf are not at the highest level. There are plenty of teams at ECNL and who play in Surf who are not playing possesion soccer.

I doubt that your player is playing at the highest level. Even if they are that would not qualify you as a possession soccer expert. You are just a typical idiot parent who has never played the game, but now view themselves as an expert because their player has found some success in the game.

[Unregistered]

In the real world of US youth soccer if your team is not winning even at the lower ages the parents of the kids who are PAYING will move that MONEY to the clubs that are (see also THUSC, FC and OR-Xfire). It's nice to think that a good coach's reputation will attract and retain quality players but that is not REALITY in pay to play youth sports. Is this a 100% rule? No, but it is the experience of 85% of the coaches and clubs across the country. You either design your club program to attract and RETAIN players or you go out of business and that business is delivering a winning feeling for the parents who then want to give you money!

As for your observations about style here is a tidbit I got from several D1 college coaches this past year on the recruiting trail. "When we see players that understand and can execute possession play we are getting a "finished product" that we don't have to do remedial work with. It's easy to teach direct or long ball soccer but it takes years and years to develop a complete understanding of the possession game."

Hence if your player wants to move to the next level or beyond developing their understanding of and ability to execute the possession game under pressure is more valuable than putting 30 goals in the net in a long ball system.

Your reading comprehension needs help.

[Unregistered]

Oh, and by the way...you called me a "troglodyte", which I am far from...that is why I am on here trying to get more of a perspective about the game. Furthermore, I am a highly educated person who is far from being a troglodyte.

And based on what I have learned by watching top teams in WA, OR, and CA as well as the professional game...is exactly what I prev posted......all teams utilize the long ball to score to create 1 v 1 situations.

If you would get out from under your "i'm a soccer know it all" and YOU stop being a troglodyte as you called me, then you too might recognize that the long ball is part of the game. but then again it is likely that your kids team hasn't played those top teams from wa or ca and it just hurts even more for you to know that a non soccer parents child is on a team that does..lol

Uh no, you are definitely a troglodyte.

[Unregistered]

In the real world of US youth soccer if your team is not winning even at the lower ages the parents of the kids who are PAYING will move that MONEY to the clubs that are (see also THUSC, FC and OR-Xfire). It's nice to think that a good coach's reputation will attract and retain quality players but that is not REALITY in pay to play youth sports. Is this a 100% rule? No, but it is the experience of 85% of the coaches and clubs across the country. You either design your club program to attract and RETAIN players or you go out of business and that business is delivering a winning feeling for the parents who then want to give you money!

As for your observations about style here is a tidbit I got from several D1 college coaches this past year on the recruiting trail. "When we see players that understand and can execute possession play we are getting a "finished product" that we don't have to do remedial work with. It's easy to teach direct or long ball soccer but it takes years and years to develop a complete understanding of the possession game."

Hence if your player wants to move to the next level or beyond developing their understanding of and ability to execute the possession game under pressure is more valuable than putting 30 goals in the net in a long ball system.

Quality development is not inconsistent with winning! Do you get that?

[Unregistered]

As for your observations about style here is a tidbit I got from several D1 college coaches this past year on the recruiting trail. "When we see players that understand and can execute possession play we are getting a "finished product" that we don't have to do remedial work with. It's easy to teach direct or long ball soccer but it takes years and years to develop a complete understanding of the possession game."

Hence if your player wants to move to the next level or beyond developing their understanding of and ability to execute the possession game under pressure is more valuable than putting 30 goals in the net in a long ball system.

That's all fine and dandy, but theses D-1 coaches are first and foremost looking for great athletes. Someone on here keeps saying you don't have to be a great athlete to play great possession soccer. This may be true, but you do have to be a great athlete to play possession soccer on a Xfire, DeAnza, Onyx..... team, not even to mention the level of athlete you have to be to play D-1. Xfire dominates from the get go because they have the most athletes to chose from and then they focus on developing their soccer skills over many years. Many young kids have great footskills, but can not hang with the athletes. The key to success is focusing on developing the best athletes, and keeping them playing soccer over the long run, instead of losing them to the more classic American sports.[/QUOTE]

Oh please, I just threw up in my mouth. Onyx does not play possession soccer.

[Unregistered]

That's all fine and dandy, but theses D-1 coaches are first and foremost looking for great athletes. Someone on here keeps saying you don't have to be a great athlete to play great possession soccer. This may be true, but you do have to be a great athlete to play possession soccer on a Xfire, DeAnza, Onyx..... team, not even to mention the level of athlete you have to be to play D-1. Xfire dominates from the get go because they have the most athletes to chose from and then they focus on developing their soccer skills over many years. Many young kids have great footskills, but can not hang with the athletes. The key to success is focusing on developing the best athletes, and keeping them playing soccer over the long run, instead of losing them to the more classic American sports.

Yes to play for the top 40 D1 and top 20 D2 schools they are going to want fast or quick ladies. But the question on the thread is how do you teach possession soccer. We do have enough of athletes in the Metro area it's just that they are spread out over four or five clubs which makes it hard to "show our stuff" to the outside US soccer community. Which is why the other thread about professionally run clubs is relevant.

Dilution causes three problems for Oregon Soccer. The most obvious is that we rarely put together a team with more than 10 top quality players where as the better run clubs from large metro areas regularly put together teams with 12-14 high quality players which allows them to sustain momentum despite injuries or a tight weekend tournament schedule.

The second thing that has been mentioned here is that dilution of talent between clubs also dilutes coaching quality and increases coaching turnover. Quality clubs with a tradition of development and success attract the best coaches who have longer tenure than what is typical here in Oregon. In quality clubs the DOC does not snake the best teams and instead works to develop coaches and promote the club philosophy to attract the best "new" coaching talent.

The third thing that dilution does to hold back Oregon soccer is that it dilutes the corporate support available to augment club income which allows the better run clubs in WA & CA and else where to pay their coaches about double are best coaches get per team.

The effects of dilution prevents most of the clubs in the area from teaching a possession style at the earlier ages because as mentioned previously parents vote with their wallets and it is the rare parent that really understands that at U10 that soccer is about development. Consequently work on possession soccer has historically not started in our area until U13, if at all, and our teams are handicapped playing against the teams from larger more professionally run clubs.

The simple answer to the first question is coaching but the larger answer includes all the things that influence the formation and the ongoing success of a club.[/QUOTE]

Bla bla bla. This dilution argument is a joke. Has nothing to do with quality coaching.