VUSA/WSA Merger

[Unregistered]

Success has to start somewhere. Being able to play with like type competition is the right path for the kids. The question is do you pay $1k for it or for a third of the price you can do the same thing at select.

I hear this so often. Certainly cost/price/money is a consideration but to often this becomes the Pacific/Select mantra. I truly hope that people look at value and what is included. Everyone has their own definition and everyone is looking for what fits their needs, budget, goals etc. So there is never a single answer that fits for everyone.
Obvious considrations should include Coaching. But other things need to be considered.
League, State cup, training opportunities, keeper training, facilities, turf access to name just a few. Not all clubs offer all or any of these.
One thing that seems to be overlooked is the mentality of the team. What are the goals?
Goals and objectives shape what and how the coach approaches things. It's quite different to have a goal to be the best select team and compete in the challenge cup vs. to be one of the top 5 teams in the state and play in the Championship with a secondary goal of representing your club and state in the Farwest Regionals. Different mentality shapes the intensity of practices, the leagues played in, the tournaments selected and eventually what is acheived both as a team and individually.
Don't kid yourselves ... there is a difference.

[Unregistered]

I hear this so often. Certainly cost/price/money is a consideration but to often this becomes the Pacific/Select mantra. I truly hope that people look at value and what is included. Everyone has their own definition and everyone is looking for what fits their needs, budget, goals etc. So there is never a single answer that fits for everyone.
Obvious considrations should include Coaching. But other things need to be considered.
League, State cup, training opportunities, keeper training, facilities, turf access to name just a few. Not all clubs offer all or any of these.
One thing that seems to be overlooked is the mentality of the team. What are the goals?
Goals and objectives shape what and how the coach approaches things. It's quite different to have a goal to be the best select team and compete in the challenge cup vs. to be one of the top 5 teams in the state and play in the Championship with a secondary goal of representing your club and state in the Farwest Regionals. Different mentality shapes the intensity of practices, the leagues played in, the tournaments selected and eventually what is acheived both as a team and individually.
Don't kid yourselves ... there is a difference.

IMO-
goal of challenge cup -select
goal of Championship cup - premier

[Unregistered]

Small correction to "and then finally for those that didn't make it in either of those". That's not accurate. Washington Cup is a separate tournament from Champions and Challenge. FCSC would not qualify to play in Challenge or Champions because they played US Club soccer.

Politics.

FCSC could have played Challenge or Champions if they chose to and made it in. Some of the FCSC teams did. All they had to do was play in the qualifying Spring league.

[Unregistered]

I hear this so often. Certainly cost/price/money is a consideration but to often this becomes the Pacific/Select mantra. I truly hope that people look at value and what is included. Everyone has their own definition and everyone is looking for what fits their needs, budget, goals etc. So there is never a single answer that fits for everyone.
Obvious considrations should include Coaching. But other things need to be considered.
League, State cup, training opportunities, keeper training, facilities, turf access to name just a few. Not all clubs offer all or any of these.
One thing that seems to be overlooked is the mentality of the team. What are the goals?
Goals and objectives shape what and how the coach approaches things. It's quite different to have a goal to be the best select team and compete in the challenge cup vs. to be one of the top 5 teams in the state and play in the Championship with a secondary goal of representing your club and state in the Farwest Regionals. Different mentality shapes the intensity of practices, the leagues played in, the tournaments selected and eventually what is acheived both as a team and individually.
Don't kid yourselves ... there is a difference.

That makes total SC sense. If you have a team, whatever the caliber, lets slap Premier on the name and have a mentality to win Regionals but at the same time we are going to compete in Division II OPL.
But the Pacific team is playing in OPL Division 1 but they don't have the mentality to try to be better?

I hope you were defending VUSA teams and not SC teams. Then the argument would make sense.

[Unregistered]

That makes total SC sense. If you have a team, whatever the caliber, lets slap Premier on the name and have a mentality to win Regionals but at the same time we are going to compete in Division II OPL.
But the Pacific team is playing in OPL Division 1 but they don't have the mentality to try to be better?

I hope you were defending VUSA teams and not SC teams. Then the argument would make sense.

I don't know what Pacific team in OPL Div 1 you are referring to but NO not everyone wants the time/emotional/money cost to "be better". Being better is relative anyways because is they make Premier division you might ask why dont they go RCL.

Kids play on Pacific teams because they know they can play other sports too, that they don't have any delusional moms or dads that think their DK is the next Messi, and because they like their teammates.

That's how it is for my kid. If we went to the same age-group FCSC team, the parents are way too intense, she couldn't play her other sport, and , yes, it would cost more. She has way more fun where she is and it's just a notch below Premier teams anyway.

[Unregistered]

That makes total SC sense. If you have a team, whatever the caliber, lets slap Premier on the name and have a mentality to win Regionals but at the same time we are going to compete in Division II OPL.
But the Pacific team is playing in OPL Division 1 but they don't have the mentality to try to be better?

I hope you were defending VUSA teams and not SC teams. Then the argument would make sense.

I don't know what Pacific team in OPL Div 1 you are referring to but NO not everyone wants the time/emotional/money cost to "be better". Being better is relative anyways because is they make Premier division you might ask why dont they go RCL.

Kids play on Pacific teams because they know they can play other sports too, they don't have moms or dads that think their DK is the next Messi, and because they like hanging out with their teammates.

That's how it is for my kid. If we went to the same age-group FCSC team, the parents are way too intense, she couldn't play her other sport, and , yes, it would cost more. She has way more fun where she is and it's just a notch below Premier teams anyway.

[Unregistered]

On their website at http://www.pacificfc.org/tryouts/b98 Pacific has 3 teams. Shooting for 3 teams is more like it. I can't tell if they will play OPL or OYSA or something else.

If I had a kid that was a WSA Premier B player, Pacific A might be a better choice. Premier fees to WSA is probably negated by gas costs driving to wherever it is that this mystery pacific team practices however.

This is the big and fair question. Do you want to play for WSA Premier B team that will likely be middle of the pack OPL Division 1, when there is an equally competitive Pacific team also playing OPL Division 1. Pacific will be cheaper no doubt for the same competition. So maybe that is important enough to stay with Pacific. WSA will have training on turf fields November through April as part of the higher cost, and also is now part of the Timbers alliance - which I personally view as a benefit although it remains to be seen. Also, the WSA Premier B team has players that have guest played for the WSA A team and now will likely have a legitimate shot at making the A team this year. These B players had the opportunity to guest play and see RCL Division 1 and 2 teams. That is another benefit in my opinion. If you are a player on Pacific playing OPL Division 1, and it is the top team at the club, that's all you get - meaning the top players will not be able to use player passes to see even better competition. So if you are a player currently playing OPL Division 1 and have aspirations to play at a higher level, it might make sense to pony up extra cash for those extra benefits.

People just have to weigh what is important to them. To each his own, I don't care one way or the other.

[Unregistered]

This is the big and fair question. Do you want to play for WSA Premier B team that will likely be middle of the pack OPL Division 1, when there is an equally competitive Pacific team also playing OPL Division 1. Pacific will be cheaper no doubt for the same competition. So maybe that is important enough to stay with Pacific. WSA will have training on turf fields November through April as part of the higher cost, and also is now part of the Timbers alliance - which I personally view as a benefit although it remains to be seen. Also, the WSA Premier B team has players that have guest played for the WSA A team and now will likely have a legitimate shot at making the A team this year. These B players had the opportunity to guest play and see RCL Division 1 and 2 teams. That is another benefit in my opinion. If you are a player on Pacific playing OPL Division 1, and it is the top team at the club, that's all you get - meaning the top players will not be able to use player passes to see even better competition. So if you are a player currently playing OPL Division 1 and have aspirations to play at a higher level, it might make sense to pony up extra cash for those extra benefits.

People just have to weigh what is important to them. To each his own, I don't care one way or the other.

my daughter plays at VUSA....the opportunities of playing for a larger club are endless...if we want more training we can get it at no additional cost.....she can train on her off days with teams that are one, two or even three years older.
I know alot of kids that do this....

[Unregistered]

This is the big and fair question. Do you want to play for WSA Premier B team that will likely be middle of the pack OPL Division 1, when there is an equally competitive Pacific team also playing OPL Division 1. Pacific will be cheaper no doubt for the same competition. So maybe that is important enough to stay with Pacific. WSA will have training on turf fields November through April as part of the higher cost, and also is now part of the Timbers alliance - which I personally view as a benefit although it remains to be seen. Also, the WSA Premier B team has players that have guest played for the WSA A team and now will likely have a legitimate shot at making the A team this year. These B players had the opportunity to guest play and see RCL Division 1 and 2 teams. That is another benefit in my opinion. If you are a player on Pacific playing OPL Division 1, and it is the top team at the club, that's all you get - meaning the top players will not be able to use player passes to see even better competition. So if you are a player currently playing OPL Division 1 and have aspirations to play at a higher level, it might make sense to pony up extra cash for those extra benefits.

People just have to weigh what is important to them. To each his own, I don't care one way or the other.

If they are beating teams pretty soundly then I could see it, but if many are 1-0 games then you are still getting competition and there is the NWCL so that gets you some higher level competition and tournaments. I mean league is only 10 games, you can find 30 more games during the year to get better competition.

I would pass on the RCL travel as I am sure the tournaments would be enough travel plus it would be for more than one game.

I am biased though, I hated RCL travel for one game--not the best option for Vancouver location.

[Unregistered]

That makes total SC sense. If you have a team, whatever the caliber, lets slap Premier on the name and have a mentality to win Regionals but at the same time we are going to compete in Division II OPL.
But the Pacific team is playing in OPL Division 1 but they don't have the mentality to try to be better?

I hope you were defending VUSA teams and not SC teams. Then the argument would make sense.

I'm not bashing select level soccer. I said everyone has to make the decision for themselves. If a select team/club is perfect for your player / family then by all means pursue this avenue.
What I'm defending against is the notion that premier soccer's extra cost is baseless.
Also, I am refering to a true premier club environment and, sorry FCSC, Salmon Creek is in no way a premier soccer organization.
At the younger ages the difference between a premier team and a select team can be very slim. Athleticism is the difference. Who ever has the athletes wins. But the team that is truly developing the skills will win later on. No brainer right? This is where the premier organization differs and provides NOT ONLY the coaching but the other opportunities / trainings / competition / player pass / show case tournaments / Timbers Alliance etc.
The intangibles do make a difference and over time the better players realize this and migrate to a club that offers this. The intangibles are mostly where the extra $$ is spent.
In it's simplist form select soccer cuts out the intangibles and that's where the savings are.
However, the intangibles do make a difference.

As far as crazy parents, well yes as you consolidate the superior players the crazy parents tend to be part of that. Not exclusive to premier soccer but maybe a higher percentage.

[Unregistered]

I'm not bashing select level soccer. I said everyone has to make the decision for themselves. If a select team/club is perfect for your player / family then by all means pursue this avenue.
What I'm defending against is the notion that premier soccer's extra cost is baseless.
Also, I am refering to a true premier club environment and, sorry FCSC, Salmon Creek is in no way a premier soccer organization.
At the younger ages the difference between a premier team and a select team can be very slim. Athleticism is the difference. Who ever has the athletes wins. But the team that is truly developing the skills will win later on. No brainer right? This is where the premier organization differs and provides NOT ONLY the coaching but the other opportunities / trainings / competition / player pass / show case tournaments / Timbers Alliance etc.
The intangibles do make a difference and over time the better players realize this and migrate to a club that offers this. The intangibles are mostly where the extra $$ is spent.
In it's simplist form select soccer cuts out the intangibles and that's where the savings are.
However, the intangibles do make a difference.

As far as crazy parents, well yes as you consolidate the superior players the crazy parents tend to be part of that. Not exclusive to premier soccer but maybe a higher percentage.

Well said. Couldn't agree more.

[Unregistered]

Funny, I was thinking the same thing.
Wasn't this Harrison Martin's team? Who has a relative on the Board and he coaches High school at Washougal I believe. He was highly advertised last year when Joe brought him on--and did not make it a year.

Spring league is not the same as Fall--it is usually much easier. And Washington Cup is not State cup. Challenge and Championship CUp are the real State Cups--everyone else plays in Washington Cup. Not saying the team did not do well there--just don't pretend the silver division for Washington Cup is a some high caliber tourney--if you dont make state cup you play in Washington Cup.

So another coach gone from SC is what you are saying.

Ummm there is yet another coach at Timbers in teh bU15 age group this year as well as a new coach at WSA U15 age group. Why aren't you ragging on them???

Yes, it was Harrison's team. He is a super guy - long resume but that doesn't always translate, especially with 14 year old boys when he is used to coaching girls. It was a mutual agreement - obviously it wasn't working 0-11 in league! Everyone wishes him well. There is no drama here people so move on!

Agreed spring is not the same. I didnt say it was. It is a chance to keep playing soccer and getting more games in before heading into cups. Washington Cup is US Club and yes, the team played prelims and ended up at the top of the Silver Division (only 4 teams advanced to the Gold). Again, not bragging that they are the top cup champs or anything but for BU14 in Clark County, noone else is doing any better - by a long shot...... We know kids from the other clubs, we watch their games. For what SC has to work with regarding limited kids at tryouts and getting everyone else's rejects.......this team is working hard, and has made a dramatic turnaround with a new coach and it is exciting. Just leave it at that.

[Unregistered]

Ditto That!

Well said. Couldn't agree more.

Totally agree! You do get what you pay for!

[Unregistered]

It's quite simple.

You mean that the very same kids but they changed the coach and then it all started to gel? This sounds like another FCSC soap opera! Did the coach leave on his own or was asked to leave ? More important, what was the style like before and after the change?

Yes, that is exactly what I am saying. Ask 17 kids and their parents and you will get the exact same response and it is quite amazing and we have witnessed it. Boys who counting down the days for the soccer season to be over, are pumped and excited to play soccer next year. What is so hard to believe that different coaching styles and coaching personalities can make a dramatic difference??? If all it took was some guy who knows a little soccer to turn a group teenage boys into soccer phenoms overnight, then well, that should be simple enough and we are all wasting our time. All I know is that it wasn't working and now it is and please don't tell me any different.

[Unregistered]

Ummm there is yet another coach at Timbers in teh bU15 age group this year as well as a new coach at WSA U15 age group. Why aren't you ragging on them???

Yes, it was Harrison's team. He is a super guy - long resume but that doesn't always translate, especially with 14 year old boys when he is used to coaching girls. It was a mutual agreement - obviously it wasn't working 0-11 in league! Everyone wishes him well. There is no drama here people so move on!

Agreed spring is not the same. I didnt say it was. It is a chance to keep playing soccer and getting more games in before heading into cups. Washington Cup is US Club and yes, the team played prelims and ended up at the top of the Silver Division (only 4 teams advanced to the Gold). Again, not bragging that they are the top cup champs or anything but for BU14 in Clark County, noone else is doing any better - by a long shot...... We know kids from the other clubs, we watch their games. For what SC has to work with regarding limited kids at tryouts and getting everyone else's rejects.......this team is working hard, and has made a dramatic turnaround with a new coach and it is exciting. Just leave it at that.

My point was not about one coach leaving but another SC coach leaving. 2 out of 40 coaches leaving is one thing but SC boys side has almost every coach leaving except two. So high percentage of coaches are leaving SC. That usually means something.