Are jersey number-position names just a useless jargon

[Unregistered]

Are jersey number-position names just a useless piece of jargon at this point?

In other words, does it make the game a little harder to understand for newbies without adding anything but a trivial piece of soccer history to the discussion for those who know it? Does it just add to a false understanding of the game?

Here's an example: even calling someone a #10 in a 4-2-3-1 and a #10 in a 4-4-2 diamond is confusing. You had better have some second striker qualities in the first one, where they aren't especially necessary in the second one.

Another: what's a #6 in a 4-2-3-1? It's nobody, really. The '2' have to have a specific mix of skills suited to that spot in a 4-2-3-1, they don't have to be the ultimate head-hunting '#6' from days of yore.

A third: Why call the 2 sides of the diamond in a 4-4-2 diamond '#8s'? Don't they need to be part '#8's' and part wings, at least if you're trying to score?

Why call a wing a #7 or #11? What does it add to the conversation?
How have you said anything more about how that player is going to play wing in that formation? If you want useless jargon, why not just say "gniw" and when people ask what a "gniw" is, just tell them it means "wing"?

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Numbers might be the place you start but it might not be the place you end up after the season !

[Unregistered]

makes sense but..................

While I agree that the sport has moved away from many of the traditional definitions associated with jersey numbers....some still carry weight. For instance.....
5, 7 & 11 aren't really used by many fans anymore. Most will just call them Wingers, Wide midfielders, or Center Backs.

# 10's use to be creative types who didn't have any defensive responsibilities that the offense revolved around. In today's game all players are required to contribute to the defense so the definition has morphed somewhat into a player who can/does create the majority of the scoring opportunities (Finds that final pass, constantly beats defenders 1 v 1 to get high % shots off, etc....). This has broadened the definition and what positions it can apply to.

However, the # 6 (CDM) role hasn't changed all that much. They are still the CM who acts as the shield to the defensive line by hanging back/deeper than the rest of the team. They can shield as either a Destroyer type....hard tackling Bruisers, or as Cerebral type who slow down the opposition through positioning and angles...chocking off the passing lanes.

The other one that hasn't changed too much is the #9...Target Striker. They're the one furthest up the field who maintain possession through hold-up play with their back to goal and/or through physical interaction with the oppositions CBs. However with the introduction of the False 9 even that position/role has been broadened.

In nearly every formation (4-2-3-1, 4-3-3, 4-4-2 diamond) the team has a dedicated #6. The only formation I can think of that doesn't use one is the flat 4-4-2 (empty bucket) which relies on 2 #8's to share the responsibility of the CDM role...trading off with one another for who goes forward....and who stays deeper.

#8 is more of a hybrid of the traditional #6 and #10 roles. CM's who can/will get into the oppositions penalty area when their team is in possession (late runs), has the ability to beat defenders on the dribble, but who'll also slow down the opposition when there team doesn't have possession of the ball...either through hard tackles or positioning. This has basically become the catch all for any central player not a traditional #6 or #10.

A couple other things to take into consideration....1) While to the general population of Americans are fairly new to the sport, and therefore Jersey numbers to describe positions is foreign...to the rest of the world it's ingrained in them what jersey number mean/represent. 2) Some of the numbers/positions hold particular significance under certain cultures. #10's are strongly linked to Brazil/Argentina/SA. #7 have special significance to many English/Dutch. While #6 & #5's are most notably linked to Germany. Call it cultural, generational, or what have you....for some of us the jersey number's still provide insight in conversation or commentary.

[Unregistered]

Are jersey number-position names just a useless piece of jargon at this point?

In other words, does it make the game a little harder to understand for newbies without adding anything but a trivial piece of soccer history to the discussion for those who know it? Does it just add to a false understanding of the game?

Here's an example: even calling someone a #10 in a 4-2-3-1 and a #10 in a 4-4-2 diamond is confusing. You had better have some second striker qualities in the first one, where they aren't especially necessary in the second one.

Another: what's a #6 in a 4-2-3-1? It's nobody, really. The '2' have to have a specific mix of skills suited to that spot in a 4-2-3-1, they don't have to be the ultimate head-hunting '#6' from days of yore.

A third: Why call the 2 sides of the diamond in a 4-4-2 diamond '#8s'? Don't they need to be part '#8's' and part wings, at least if you're trying to score?

Why call a wing a #7 or #11? What does it add to the conversation?
How have you said anything more about how that player is going to play wing in that formation? If you want useless jargon, why not just say "gniw" and when people ask what a "gniw" is, just tell them it means "wing"?

very good points.

the role of positions in a sport like soccer only mean something if they serve to exclude functions from the guy you're limiting.

like for instance, a CDM, what is a CDM?

in theory it's a guy who "holds" right? What he's NOT allowed to do is vacate space in front of the CB's or defensive line, and his main job is to make sure after a turnover the lines get held.

but that doesn't define what he can do with the ball

is he a guy like a pirlo? who sends balls front deep position?

Kante when he goes off on nimble dribbles, ala diarra too at times.

is he a cover 2 guy, someone in space looking to pick out passes telling other people to move, or is he a guy who's tackling everything he sees and needs the Terry's and Cahill's to provide the camp coverage?

Baseball it's easy, it's where you are.

football it's defined by the rulebooks cause they love that bureaucratic stuff in the NFL

basketball is probably most like footy, what's a center? Is Stoudemire (Amar'e) a center? when he was playing for the suns? his movements were almost like a guard, slashing and cutting and shooting jumpers.

[Unregistered]

While I agree that the sport has moved away from many of the traditional definitions associated with jersey numbers....some still carry weight. For instance.....
5, 7 & 11 aren't really used by many fans anymore. Most will just call them Wingers, Wide midfielders, or Center Backs.

# 10's use to be creative types who didn't have any defensive responsibilities that the offense revolved around. In today's game all players are required to contribute to the defense so the definition has morphed somewhat into a player who can/does create the majority of the scoring opportunities (Finds that final pass, constantly beats defenders 1 v 1 to get high % shots off, etc....). This has broadened the definition and what positions it can apply to.

However, the # 6 (CDM) role hasn't changed all that much. They are still the CM who acts as the shield to the defensive line by hanging back/deeper than the rest of the team. They can shield as either a Destroyer type....hard tackling Bruisers, or as Cerebral type who slow down the opposition through positioning and angles...chocking off the passing lanes.

The other one that hasn't changed too much is the #9...Target Striker. They're the one furthest up the field who maintain possession through hold-up play with their back to goal and/or through physical interaction with the oppositions CBs. However with the introduction of the False 9 even that position/role has been broadened.

In nearly every formation (4-2-3-1, 4-3-3, 4-4-2 diamond) the team has a dedicated #6. The only formation I can think of that doesn't use one is the flat 4-4-2 (empty bucket) which relies on 2 #8's to share the responsibility of the CDM role...trading off with one another for who goes forward....and who stays deeper.

#8 is more of a hybrid of the traditional #6 and #10 roles. CM's who can/will get into the oppositions penalty area when their team is in possession (late runs), has the ability to beat defenders on the dribble, but who'll also slow down the opposition when there team doesn't have possession of the ball...either through hard tackles or positioning. This has basically become the catch all for any central player not a traditional #6 or #10.

A couple other things to take into consideration....1) While to the general population of Americans are fairly new to the sport, and therefore Jersey numbers to describe positions is foreign...to the rest of the world it's ingrained in them what jersey number mean/represent. 2) Some of the numbers/positions hold particular significance under certain cultures. #10's are strongly linked to Brazil/Argentina/SA. #7 have special significance to many English/Dutch. While #6 & #5's are most notably linked to Germany. Call it cultural, generational, or what have you....for some of us the jersey number's still provide insight in conversation or commentary.

Also, in different countries, the numbers mean different things. In Argentina, CMs are called #5s, and a regular 4-4-2 with two CMs is called a "doble cinco."

[Unregistered]

We are in america we do not know the meaning of numbers they are just thoughts that cloud your mind just play in a pure form end the number game !

[Unregistered]

Are jersey number-position names just a useless piece of jargon at this point?

In other words, does it make the game a little harder to understand for newbies without adding anything but a trivial piece of soccer history to the discussion for those who know it? Does it just add to a false understanding of the game?

Here's an example: even calling someone a #10 in a 4-2-3-1 and a #10 in a 4-4-2 diamond is confusing. You had better have some second striker qualities in the first one, where they aren't especially necessary in the second one.

Another: what's a #6 in a 4-2-3-1? It's nobody, really. The '2' have to have a specific mix of skills suited to that spot in a 4-2-3-1, they don't have to be the ultimate head-hunting '#6' from days of yore.

A third: Why call the 2 sides of the diamond in a 4-4-2 diamond '#8s'? Don't they need to be part '#8's' and part wings, at least if you're trying to score?

Why call a wing a #7 or #11? What does it add to the conversation?
How have you said anything more about how that player is going to play wing in that formation? If you want useless jargon, why not just say "gniw" and when people ask what a "gniw" is, just tell them it means "wing"?

true, numbers are just for fun.

[Unregistered]

[QUOTE=Unregistered;2052705]Are jersey number-position names just a useless piece of jargon at this point?

Yes, they are.

[Unregistered]

At least the Mod started an original thread!

[Unregistered]

Nice thread!

Some real soccer talk!

I like the traditional way of assigning numbers by position.

[Unregistered]

Nice thread!

Some real soccer talk!

I like the traditional way of assigning numbers by position.

Yes but players should be encouraged to play many positions in a young age.
When players keep uniforms for two years but move onto new teams each year, the number
Thing can get interesting. The numbers should be one of a kind for the first and second team so players can move up or down and keep the same number. Lots of number stories at our club- players asked to be dual rostered and then a new player moves to the club and is assigned the number the player who is dual rostered has.