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    #91
    Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
    That’s how sad this is. The second rate players from Europe and elsewhere come here to take the spots our best club players aren’t qualified for. ECNL and DA players are 2nd choice for college coaches who can’t attract enough international players.
    They're 2nd rate by European standards. Ours are 3rd rate or lower by European standards (with a few exceptions).

    Comment


      #92
      Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
      Tell that to the men's side - they've had BDA for ten years and lately don't even qualify for international events when before they did. International rejects are taking men's college spots all the time and it's constantly growing (it's growing for women too but off a much smaller base). Why? Because even as rejects from international academies they are still (generally) better players than our players trained here.
      And here is a big part of the problem. The posts about players sucking started about the women and the washington post article. But instead of looking at what to change to fix it lets just point fingers elsewhere. Don't get me wrong I don't think these issues will be fixed on TS. But I do think TS gives us insight into US Soccer and what is going on. ECNL Vs DA. Keep the focus and fight on which is better and not on fixing our own house. Just point fingers at the other guy and say mine is better so it must be good. Meanwhile they both suck.

      Comment


        #93
        Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
        And here is a big part of the problem. The posts about players sucking started about the women and the washington post article. But instead of looking at what to change to fix it lets just point fingers elsewhere. Don't get me wrong I don't think these issues will be fixed on TS. But I do think TS gives us insight into US Soccer and what is going on. ECNL Vs DA. Keep the focus and fight on which is better and not on fixing our own house. Just point fingers at the other guy and say mine is better so it must be good. Meanwhile they both suck.
        It isn't about what league is "better" they both have their issues. But DA will not fix the USN teams. It just won't - as beaten like a dead horse, DA is too big, too many poor quality clubs, too many weaker players for a league that's supposed to be about the nation's "best". Then there's also issues with talent identification and training at the NT level, finances, politics...

        Comment


          #94
          Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
          Tell that to the men's side - they've had BDA for ten years and lately don't even qualify for international events when before they did. International rejects are taking men's college spots all the time and it's constantly growing (it's growing for women too but off a much smaller base). Why? Because even as rejects from international academies they are still (generally) better players than our players trained here.
          If their kids love and want it more, parents here just cant buy it for their kids .... that is the real story. This game is their past time and here, kids play it because their parents pay for them to train and be on a team they can brag about.

          Comment


            #95
            Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
            Well watching the USWNT it is obvious the younger players suck. Whatever system they were in before failed them and their development. The older players in comparison are clearly the better players.

            Not sure if same system or not and not trying to start debate over ECNL vs GDA vs NPL. Just saying they suck and if I was a college coach I would be looking elsewhere too.
            ODP is what the older players went through. That is the model USSF should have continued to invest into. Maybe they will again.

            Comment


              #96
              Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
              I guess to the point you didnt say but probably defend vehemently elsewhere, I guess college soccer is the end game for girls then?! Why aren't the foreign players getting ruined or finding better alternatives rather than settling for NCAA soccer?
              What alternatives are there?

              Comment


                #97
                I’m going to assume that for the majority of posters on this TS, leagues don’t really matter too much. They won’t get too far regardless.

                Comment


                  #98
                  Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                  ODP is what the older players went through. That is the model USSF should have continued to invest into. Maybe they will again.
                  The main problem is that club soccer was no where near as big 10-15 years ago and parents have zeroed in on it as a potential college pathway at a time when getting a college spot is getting more competitive, athlete or not. The clubs promote this and the parents bite.

                  10-15 years ago, you largely had town rec/travel coaches running ODP thru Youth Soccer Association and the majority of girls were pulled from MAPLE and simllar town travel leagues. Then US Club Soccer came along and started ECNL and they pretty much took over ODP and used it as a marketing tool. It lost what made it so successful, which was a genuine ID and development pool for the masses, not those with $in their pocket for club.

                  USSF made the mistake of looking at US Club Soccer as a partner rather than a competitor for talent. It’s gained them $, but lost them control over the youth market, particularly when they made the boneheaded move to not have a GDA at the same time they started BDA 10 years ago. The next boneheaded move they made was trying to go head-to-head with ECNL by making such a big league instead of following the ODP model, which could still work with some tweaks (foremost banning US Club Soccer players). I agree with other posters that there are way too many DA teams for a true national ID/pro program.

                  I don’t want to sound like I’m totally against US Club Soccer/ECNL. It has its place developing school-centered players. USSF’s issues are largely self-inflicted. But if you want “real soccer players” that go head-to-head on the world stage, then ECNL, and DA in its current form, are not the way to go.

                  Comment


                    #99
                    Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                    The main problem is that club soccer was no where near as big 10-15 years ago and parents have zeroed in on it as a potential college pathway at a time when getting a college spot is getting more competitive, athlete or not. The clubs promote this and the parents bite.

                    10-15 years ago, you largely had town rec/travel coaches running ODP thru Youth Soccer Association and the majority of girls were pulled from MAPLE and simllar town travel leagues. Then US Club Soccer came along and started ECNL and they pretty much took over ODP and used it as a marketing tool. It lost what made it so successful, which was a genuine ID and development pool for the masses, not those with $in their pocket for club.

                    USSF made the mistake of looking at US Club Soccer as a partner rather than a competitor for talent. It’s gained them $, but lost them control over the youth market, particularly when they made the boneheaded move to not have a GDA at the same time they started BDA 10 years ago. The next boneheaded move they made was trying to go head-to-head with ECNL by making such a big league instead of following the ODP model, which could still work with some tweaks (foremost banning US Club Soccer players). I agree with other posters that there are way too many DA teams for a true national ID/pro program.

                    I don’t want to sound like I’m totally against US Club Soccer/ECNL. It has its place developing school-centered players. USSF’s issues are largely self-inflicted. But if you want “real soccer players” that go head-to-head on the world stage, then ECNL, and DA in its current form, are not the way to go.
                    The problem is USSF is only looking for the unicorns (potential unicorns) who have potential to make the national team. That’s a few, say a 100 out of millions of players. ECNL, as you pointed out, realized there was a market for the thousands of girls who want to play in college (and/or use soccer to help them into college but who don’t have a shot at the national team. The “customer” base is completely different for the two leagues. ODP was more the right idea but it needs to be free and from odp they need to make free residential academies for the very best. As long as there is really almost no pro chance for girls but a very real and obvious chance of college, ECNL will be a popular choice.

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                      The problem is USSF is only looking for the unicorns (potential unicorns) who have potential to make the national team. That’s a few, say a 100 out of millions of players. ECNL, as you pointed out, realized there was a market for the thousands of girls who want to play in college (and/or use soccer to help them into college but who don’t have a shot at the national team. The “customer” base is completely different for the two leagues. ODP was more the right idea but it needs to be free and from odp they need to make free residential academies for the very best. As long as there is really almost no pro chance for girls but a very real and obvious chance of college, ECNL will be a popular choice.
                      Agreed, but what people seem to forget or not be willing to acknowledge is that 99% of ECNL/college players are NOT great soccer players. They are students who spend 10-20% of their time playing soccer. They CANNOT compete with the world’s best until they dedicate themselves to soccer full-time. And that is a huge problem here because USSF/coaches/parents get upset when you say that because they don’t want their kids denied a YNT camp or NT spot. Everybody here wants to have their cake and eat it too and it doesn’t work in international soccer anymore. I’m sure posters will say “oh, I’m not concerned with NT” and to them I say that the next time your ECNL club tweets out that their teammate makes YNT they should contact the club and say it’s total BS and as an American you expect better.

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                        Agreed, but what people seem to forget or not be willing to acknowledge is that 99% of ECNL/college players are NOT great soccer players. They are students who spend 10-20% of their time playing soccer. They CANNOT compete with the world’s best until they dedicate themselves to soccer full-time. And that is a huge problem here because USSF/coaches/parents get upset when you say that because they don’t want their kids denied a YNT camp or NT spot. Everybody here wants to have their cake and eat it too and it doesn’t work in international soccer anymore. I’m sure posters will say “oh, I’m not concerned with NT” and to them I say that the next time your ECNL club tweets out that their teammate makes YNT they should contact the club and say it’s total BS and as an American you expect better.
                        Bizarre. So far all the kids who are playing D1 college basketball, their parents should complain to their AAU teams about the state of America and how not enough kids are good enough to play for the men's Olympic team and/or in the NBA. Got it.

                        Here's a thought. I have a kid who is a good soccer player. I look around and find out she can play for a local top club at the highest possible level, which for our area translate into playing and training against the best competition available. But while doing that we're supposed to fret over what us playing does to the WNT scene? Really? Like, really?

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                          The problem is USSF is only looking for the unicorns (potential unicorns) who have potential to make the national team. That’s a few, say a 100 out of millions of players. ECNL, as you pointed out, realized there was a market for the thousands of girls who want to play in college (and/or use soccer to help them into college but who don’t have a shot at the national team. The “customer” base is completely different for the two leagues. ODP was more the right idea but it needs to be free and from odp they need to make free residential academies for the very best. As long as there is really almost no pro chance for girls but a very real and obvious chance of college, ECNL will be a popular choice.
                          Totally agree. If USSF would support ODP it would be change the whole operation. Take talent identification and (some) development out of the clubs' and leagues' hands and back into USSF. They need to up the NT training too. Let the rest play in ECNL or DA or whatever.

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                            Bizarre. So far all the kids who are playing D1 college basketball, their parents should complain to their AAU teams about the state of America and how not enough kids are good enough to play for the men's Olympic team and/or in the NBA. Got it.

                            Here's a thought. I have a kid who is a good soccer player. I look around and find out she can play for a local top club at the highest possible level, which for our area translate into playing and training against the best competition available. But while doing that we're supposed to fret over what us playing does to the WNT scene? Really? Like, really?
                            lol so true. USSF thinks NT matters to players; it doesn't to all but maybe 1% of them. For the rest it's about playing competitive soccer now and hopefully playing in college later.

                            Comment


                              This statement probably won't go over to well but my kid just plays soccer because they like it.

                              The other one runs track because that is what they like.

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                                Agreed, but what people seem to forget or not be willing to acknowledge is that 99% of ECNL/college players are NOT great soccer players. They are students who spend 10-20% of their time playing soccer. They CANNOT compete with the world’s best until they dedicate themselves to soccer full-time. And that is a huge problem here because USSF/coaches/parents get upset when you say that because they don’t want their kids denied a YNT camp or NT spot. Everybody here wants to have their cake and eat it too and it doesn’t work in international soccer anymore. I’m sure posters will say “oh, I’m not concerned with NT” and to them I say that the next time your ECNL club tweets out that their teammate makes YNT they should contact the club and say it’s total BS and as an American you expect better.
                                Is it that people aren't willing to acknowledge? Or that you aren't able to define great?

                                I grew up with a great basketball player at my high school. He traveled around the country playing AAU. The stands were filled with D1 scouts. He got a full ride to college. His face was all over our local sports section. He never played in the NBA and definitely not for the national team. I guess everyone calling him a great player was stupid? Great for 99.9% of people is relative. Any kid who can out play most of the local high school teams as a freshman and hang wth college players is a great athlete. Maybe they aren't a unicorn or phenom, but to say that only unicorns or phenoms are great is foolish.

                                Comment

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