Originally posted by Unregistered
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Does league even matter?
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Unregistered
Originally posted by Unregistered View PostTell that to the men's side - they've had BDA for ten years and lately don't even qualify for international events when before they did. International rejects are taking men's college spots all the time and it's constantly growing (it's growing for women too but off a much smaller base). Why? Because even as rejects from international academies they are still (generally) better players than our players trained here.
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Unregistered
Originally posted by Unregistered View PostAnd here is a big part of the problem. The posts about players sucking started about the women and the washington post article. But instead of looking at what to change to fix it lets just point fingers elsewhere. Don't get me wrong I don't think these issues will be fixed on TS. But I do think TS gives us insight into US Soccer and what is going on. ECNL Vs DA. Keep the focus and fight on which is better and not on fixing our own house. Just point fingers at the other guy and say mine is better so it must be good. Meanwhile they both suck.
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Unregistered
Originally posted by Unregistered View PostTell that to the men's side - they've had BDA for ten years and lately don't even qualify for international events when before they did. International rejects are taking men's college spots all the time and it's constantly growing (it's growing for women too but off a much smaller base). Why? Because even as rejects from international academies they are still (generally) better players than our players trained here.
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Unregistered
Originally posted by Unregistered View PostWell watching the USWNT it is obvious the younger players suck. Whatever system they were in before failed them and their development. The older players in comparison are clearly the better players.
Not sure if same system or not and not trying to start debate over ECNL vs GDA vs NPL. Just saying they suck and if I was a college coach I would be looking elsewhere too.
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Unregistered
Originally posted by Unregistered View PostI guess to the point you didnt say but probably defend vehemently elsewhere, I guess college soccer is the end game for girls then?! Why aren't the foreign players getting ruined or finding better alternatives rather than settling for NCAA soccer?
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Unregistered
I’m going to assume that for the majority of posters on this TS, leagues don’t really matter too much. They won’t get too far regardless.
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Unregistered
Originally posted by Unregistered View PostODP is what the older players went through. That is the model USSF should have continued to invest into. Maybe they will again.
10-15 years ago, you largely had town rec/travel coaches running ODP thru Youth Soccer Association and the majority of girls were pulled from MAPLE and simllar town travel leagues. Then US Club Soccer came along and started ECNL and they pretty much took over ODP and used it as a marketing tool. It lost what made it so successful, which was a genuine ID and development pool for the masses, not those with $in their pocket for club.
USSF made the mistake of looking at US Club Soccer as a partner rather than a competitor for talent. It’s gained them $, but lost them control over the youth market, particularly when they made the boneheaded move to not have a GDA at the same time they started BDA 10 years ago. The next boneheaded move they made was trying to go head-to-head with ECNL by making such a big league instead of following the ODP model, which could still work with some tweaks (foremost banning US Club Soccer players). I agree with other posters that there are way too many DA teams for a true national ID/pro program.
I don’t want to sound like I’m totally against US Club Soccer/ECNL. It has its place developing school-centered players. USSF’s issues are largely self-inflicted. But if you want “real soccer players” that go head-to-head on the world stage, then ECNL, and DA in its current form, are not the way to go.
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Unregistered
Originally posted by Unregistered View PostThe main problem is that club soccer was no where near as big 10-15 years ago and parents have zeroed in on it as a potential college pathway at a time when getting a college spot is getting more competitive, athlete or not. The clubs promote this and the parents bite.
10-15 years ago, you largely had town rec/travel coaches running ODP thru Youth Soccer Association and the majority of girls were pulled from MAPLE and simllar town travel leagues. Then US Club Soccer came along and started ECNL and they pretty much took over ODP and used it as a marketing tool. It lost what made it so successful, which was a genuine ID and development pool for the masses, not those with $in their pocket for club.
USSF made the mistake of looking at US Club Soccer as a partner rather than a competitor for talent. It’s gained them $, but lost them control over the youth market, particularly when they made the boneheaded move to not have a GDA at the same time they started BDA 10 years ago. The next boneheaded move they made was trying to go head-to-head with ECNL by making such a big league instead of following the ODP model, which could still work with some tweaks (foremost banning US Club Soccer players). I agree with other posters that there are way too many DA teams for a true national ID/pro program.
I don’t want to sound like I’m totally against US Club Soccer/ECNL. It has its place developing school-centered players. USSF’s issues are largely self-inflicted. But if you want “real soccer players” that go head-to-head on the world stage, then ECNL, and DA in its current form, are not the way to go.
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Unregistered
Originally posted by Unregistered View PostThe problem is USSF is only looking for the unicorns (potential unicorns) who have potential to make the national team. That’s a few, say a 100 out of millions of players. ECNL, as you pointed out, realized there was a market for the thousands of girls who want to play in college (and/or use soccer to help them into college but who don’t have a shot at the national team. The “customer” base is completely different for the two leagues. ODP was more the right idea but it needs to be free and from odp they need to make free residential academies for the very best. As long as there is really almost no pro chance for girls but a very real and obvious chance of college, ECNL will be a popular choice.
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Unregistered
Originally posted by Unregistered View PostAgreed, but what people seem to forget or not be willing to acknowledge is that 99% of ECNL/college players are NOT great soccer players. They are students who spend 10-20% of their time playing soccer. They CANNOT compete with the world’s best until they dedicate themselves to soccer full-time. And that is a huge problem here because USSF/coaches/parents get upset when you say that because they don’t want their kids denied a YNT camp or NT spot. Everybody here wants to have their cake and eat it too and it doesn’t work in international soccer anymore. I’m sure posters will say “oh, I’m not concerned with NT” and to them I say that the next time your ECNL club tweets out that their teammate makes YNT they should contact the club and say it’s total BS and as an American you expect better.
Here's a thought. I have a kid who is a good soccer player. I look around and find out she can play for a local top club at the highest possible level, which for our area translate into playing and training against the best competition available. But while doing that we're supposed to fret over what us playing does to the WNT scene? Really? Like, really?
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Unregistered
Originally posted by Unregistered View PostThe problem is USSF is only looking for the unicorns (potential unicorns) who have potential to make the national team. That’s a few, say a 100 out of millions of players. ECNL, as you pointed out, realized there was a market for the thousands of girls who want to play in college (and/or use soccer to help them into college but who don’t have a shot at the national team. The “customer” base is completely different for the two leagues. ODP was more the right idea but it needs to be free and from odp they need to make free residential academies for the very best. As long as there is really almost no pro chance for girls but a very real and obvious chance of college, ECNL will be a popular choice.
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Unregistered
Originally posted by Unregistered View PostBizarre. So far all the kids who are playing D1 college basketball, their parents should complain to their AAU teams about the state of America and how not enough kids are good enough to play for the men's Olympic team and/or in the NBA. Got it.
Here's a thought. I have a kid who is a good soccer player. I look around and find out she can play for a local top club at the highest possible level, which for our area translate into playing and training against the best competition available. But while doing that we're supposed to fret over what us playing does to the WNT scene? Really? Like, really?
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Unregistered
This statement probably won't go over to well but my kid just plays soccer because they like it.
The other one runs track because that is what they like.
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Unregistered
Originally posted by Unregistered View PostAgreed, but what people seem to forget or not be willing to acknowledge is that 99% of ECNL/college players are NOT great soccer players. They are students who spend 10-20% of their time playing soccer. They CANNOT compete with the world’s best until they dedicate themselves to soccer full-time. And that is a huge problem here because USSF/coaches/parents get upset when you say that because they don’t want their kids denied a YNT camp or NT spot. Everybody here wants to have their cake and eat it too and it doesn’t work in international soccer anymore. I’m sure posters will say “oh, I’m not concerned with NT” and to them I say that the next time your ECNL club tweets out that their teammate makes YNT they should contact the club and say it’s total BS and as an American you expect better.
I grew up with a great basketball player at my high school. He traveled around the country playing AAU. The stands were filled with D1 scouts. He got a full ride to college. His face was all over our local sports section. He never played in the NBA and definitely not for the national team. I guess everyone calling him a great player was stupid? Great for 99.9% of people is relative. Any kid who can out play most of the local high school teams as a freshman and hang wth college players is a great athlete. Maybe they aren't a unicorn or phenom, but to say that only unicorns or phenoms are great is foolish.
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