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US Soccer argues male players have more 'skill' than female players in equal pay case

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    #31
    It's not just a matter of paying more or less.

    The women all get guaranteed salaries, health insurance, their pro teams are reimbursed for their salaries which helps keep the women's pro league viable, they keep getting paid when they are injured and more. The men only get paid for games that they actually get picked for and show up for. If they are injured or unavailable for a particular game, they don't get paid.

    The woman's concacaf world cup qualifying involves 5 games with only 1 or 2 being competitive, all played over one week in one location. The men's concacaf world cup qualifying involves 16 games, half of which involve international travel and is played over the course of several months and every game is against top competition.

    The Olympics are even more of a difference as the women are automatic qualifiers where the men's team have to go through a similar concacaf qualifying procedure, only using the U-23 teams which means that the men's program has to fund both the regular squad and the U-23 squad at higher levels.

    The woman's friendlies, she-believes tour, etc take place mostly in the US. The men's friendlies involve a large amount of international travel. And again, if the men get injured they are on their own where the women are taken care of.

    When playing in the US the women do draw a decent crowd, usually less than the men but close. But when playing outside the US the stadiums for women's games are empty while the mens are still drawing healthy crowds. International sponsors as a result spend far more money supporting the mens game than the womens game.

    And the elephant in the room is the world cup. The money in the men's world cup is 10x the amount of money than the women's world cup because no other country in the world really cares much about the women's game outside the US, being especially bad outside of western Europe, China and Japan.

    Now, as for the money being quoted between 2016 and 2018. That was a fluke. The US Women came off a high of winning the World Cup in 2015 and even though they didn't medal in the 2016 Olympics, they at least made it to the elimination rounds. And in 2018 they were cruising towards another World Cup entry. The US Men on the other hand had disastrous qualifiers and missed out both the 2016 Olympics and 2018 World cup. This is a situation unlikely to repeat itself as the men's team should normally be in both so the fact that the women's revenue matched the men's for a couple of years is not the norm. You shouldn't be able to retroactively sue for back pay over a fluke.

    To summarize, the mens game normally earns far more, involves far more games, far more of those games being played internationally, has far more international fan support and doesn't provide the safety nets that are in place for the women's games so of course it is entirely reasonable that the men get paid more. It's not the same work.

    Comment


      #32
      Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
      It's not just a matter of paying more or less.

      The women all get guaranteed salaries, health insurance, their pro teams are reimbursed for their salaries which helps keep the women's pro league viable, they keep getting paid when they are injured and more. The men only get paid for games that they actually get picked for and show up for. If they are injured or unavailable for a particular game, they don't get paid.

      The woman's concacaf world cup qualifying involves 5 games with only 1 or 2 being competitive, all played over one week in one location. The men's concacaf world cup qualifying involves 16 games, half of which involve international travel and is played over the course of several months and every game is against top competition.

      The Olympics are even more of a difference as the women are automatic qualifiers where the men's team have to go through a similar concacaf qualifying procedure, only using the U-23 teams which means that the men's program has to fund both the regular squad and the U-23 squad at higher levels.

      The woman's friendlies, she-believes tour, etc take place mostly in the US. The men's friendlies involve a large amount of international travel. And again, if the men get injured they are on their own where the women are taken care of.

      When playing in the US the women do draw a decent crowd, usually less than the men but close. But when playing outside the US the stadiums for women's games are empty while the mens are still drawing healthy crowds. International sponsors as a result spend far more money supporting the mens game than the womens game.

      And the elephant in the room is the world cup. The money in the men's world cup is 10x the amount of money than the women's world cup because no other country in the world really cares much about the women's game outside the US, being especially bad outside of western Europe, China and Japan.

      Now, as for the money being quoted between 2016 and 2018. That was a fluke. The US Women came off a high of winning the World Cup in 2015 and even though they didn't medal in the 2016 Olympics, they at least made it to the elimination rounds. And in 2018 they were cruising towards another World Cup entry. The US Men on the other hand had disastrous qualifiers and missed out both the 2016 Olympics and 2018 World cup. This is a situation unlikely to repeat itself as the men's team should normally be in both so the fact that the women's revenue matched the men's for a couple of years is not the norm. You shouldn't be able to retroactively sue for back pay over a fluke.

      To summarize, the mens game normally earns far more, involves far more games, far more of those games being played internationally, has far more international fan support and doesn't provide the safety nets that are in place for the women's games so of course it is entirely reasonable that the men get paid more. It's not the same work.
      For the last five years the women have returned in revenue more for US Soccer then the men. It is that simple and I don't need 3 paragraphs to explain it. This is simple math. Pay them....

      Comment


        #33
        Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
        The attorneys for the women must have been so happy to read that filing. The USSF lawyers handed them the win on a silver platter.

        Now they just need to manage the clock and not make any unforced errors.

        Take it to the corner flag and start counting your money.
        Well said

        Comment


          #34
          Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
          The attorneys for the women must have been so happy to read that filing. The USSF lawyers handed them the win on a silver platter.

          Now they just need to manage the clock and not make any unforced errors.

          Take it to the corner flag and start counting your money.
          Hard to believe that any experienced attorney signed off on that filing much less the leadership of Ussf. They need to put their tail between their legs, apologize profusely, and move for a very generous settlement.

          A judgment at this point will be very harsh and likely look to make an example out of ussf. They should be very concerned.

          Somebody really eff’d this up. I’d have a tough time signing the check to pay for these legal services.

          Comment


            #35
            Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
            Hard to believe that any experienced attorney signed off on that filing much less the leadership of Ussf. They need to put their tail between their legs, apologize profusely, and move for a very generous settlement.

            A judgment at this point will be very harsh and likely look to make an example out of ussf. They should be very concerned.

            Somebody really eff’d this up. I’d have a tough time signing the check to pay for these legal services.
            Agree, now that Cone is calling the shots US Soccer should get better leadership.

            Comment


              #36
              Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
              For the last five years the women have returned in revenue more for US Soccer then the men. It is that simple and I don't need 3 paragraphs to explain it. This is simple math. Pay them....
              This is inaccurate and simple minded. The women out earned the men in 2018, which was driven by the men failing to qualify for the 2018 world cup. In 2018 the women’s revenue was about a million more than the men.

              The biggest factor is in how women are paid which includes subsidizing the WPNL which no one watches outside Oregon. So the benefit is spread across more women soccer players who have a league and income they simply wouldn’t otherwise.

              Comment


                #37
                Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                This is inaccurate and simple minded. The women out earned the men in 2018, which was driven by the men failing to qualify for the 2018 world cup. In 2018 the women’s revenue was about a million more than the men.

                The biggest factor is in how women are paid which includes subsidizing the WPNL which no one watches outside Oregon. So the benefit is spread across more women soccer players who have a league and income they simply wouldn’t otherwise.
                If the women and the men were paid the same then we wouldn't have an issue. Coaches even get paid less.

                Comment


                  #38
                  The simple solution would be to split the mens and women's into separate organizations. Then everyone would realize just how much more popular and profitable the women are in the US vs the men.

                  Right now the men's coach is getting paid $275,000 per month to coach the men.

                  Jill Ellis is retired but she was getting paid $27,000 per month to coach the women.

                  The women are wildly successful. The men are to put it mildly, pathetic.

                  Comment


                    #39
                    Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                    The attorneys for the women must have been so happy to read that filing. The USSF lawyers handed them the win on a silver platter.

                    Now they just need to manage the clock and not make any unforced errors.

                    Take it to the corner flag and start counting your money.
                    The attorney's representing the women are probably quite happy right now. The USSF attorney's just netted two own goals to make it women 5, USSF 0.

                    Comment


                      #40
                      Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                      The simple solution would be to split the mens and women's into separate organizations. Then everyone would realize just how much more popular and profitable the women are in the US vs the men.

                      Right now the men's coach is getting paid $275,000 per month to coach the men.

                      Jill Ellis is retired but she was getting paid $27,000 per month to coach the women.

                      The women are wildly successful. The men are to put it mildly, pathetic.
                      The mens team is so bad most sports fans in USA cannot even name a single player????

                      Comment


                        #41
                        Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                        The mens team is so bad most sports fans in USA cannot even name a single player????
                        That’s only because the quality of competition is much higher for the men. Let’s be real here.... who watches the L....I mean WNBA?

                        Comment


                          #42
                          Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                          The attorneys for the women must have been so happy to read that filing. The USSF lawyers handed them the win on a silver platter.

                          Now they just need to manage the clock and not make any unforced errors.

                          Take it to the corner flag and start counting your money.
                          Entitlement. Love it!

                          Watching Women's Soccer is not ever an option in this lifetime, I will pay them personally to stop playing a sport that has no appeal to any viewer that loves and appreciates the sport of Football/Soccer.

                          How come females figure it out when it comes to Baseball and American Football.

                          Can't wait for those entitlement suits.

                          Comment


                            #43
                            Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                            That’s only because the quality of competition is much higher for the men. Let’s be real here.... who watches the L....I mean WNBA?
                            To be honest, women's soccer is top of the sports pyramid for women's sports in USA. For men soccer is maybe tier 4. Probably why most sports fans cannot name a male national team member but could probably name 4 from women's team. Womens soccer in USA is more popular than mens for most sports fans. New leadership may tap into this and help grow the game.

                            Comment


                              #44
                              Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                              Hard to believe that any experienced attorney signed off on that filing much less the leadership of Ussf. They need to put their tail between their legs, apologize profusely, and move for a very generous settlement.

                              A judgment at this point will be very harsh and likely look to make an example out of ussf. They should be very concerned.

                              Somebody really eff’d this up. I’d have a tough time signing the check to pay for these legal services.
                              The women continue their winning ways. Lots of vacation homes paid for by this amazingly idiotic legal argument. The lawyers will be quite happy.

                              Comment


                                #45
                                Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                                The attorney's representing the women are probably quite happy right now. The USSF attorney's just netted two own goals to make it women 5, USSF 0.
                                Pretty much. Appearances matter as much as fact in court. Fair or not.

                                Right now the counsel for the women just have to avoid murdering someone in court or ....well that is pretty much it, and they win.

                                Comment

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