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The putrid business of competitive youth soccer

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    #61
    Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
    Since it is not at all obvious to me, please explain what you, as a coach, mean by "dealing with the bull****that has spread throughout youth competitive soccer." We may all gain some perspective from that explanation.

    If by "treats it like a business" you mean that revenues must equal expenses then, unlike public schools which receive tax revenue to cover all of their expenses, every youth soccer club must be run like a business in order to exist. If, on the other hand, by "treats it like a business" you mean coaches and trainers who collect pay for their expertise, are we to assume that, unlike the vast majority of licensed and qualified ones, you are volunteering your time? If so, you are indeed a rare coach and have my thanks and respect.

    I, too, love the game, and believe that High School soccer has its social and community role. However, I also believe that High School soccer is an impediment to the development of its best players and had no problem with the USSF decision to eliminate High School play for its Development Academy players.
    Ok, I'm back.

    I don't have an issue with a youth soccer club operating like a business. I would just prefer that business not exist for the sake of profit.

    I don't have a problem with a coach wanting to be paid for his time. I, however, coach because I love the game and love the opportunity to instill in others that same appreciation for it. I have a job, I don't need to make money off of kids and their parents who are trying to do something constructive, especially when it involves something I hold very dear.

    The larger, big money clubs seem to have it backward. Instead of marketing their clubs honestly, taking the kids they get, and then making sure they have enough paid coaches and administrators, they are swindling as many kids as they can scrape together so that they can continue to pay the existing coaches and administrators.

    I have coached some fantastic players in high school who honed their skills at the park and on the street, and never player club soccer... because they couldn't afford it.

    Comment


      #62
      Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
      Ok, I'm back.

      I don't have an issue with a youth soccer club operating like a business. I would just prefer that business not exist for the sake of profit.

      I don't have a problem with a coach wanting to be paid for his time. I, however, coach because I love the game and love the opportunity to instill in others that same appreciation for it. I have a job, I don't need to make money off of kids and their parents who are trying to do something constructive, especially when it involves something I hold very dear.

      The larger, big money clubs seem to have it backward. Instead of marketing their clubs honestly, taking the kids they get, and then making sure they have enough paid coaches and administrators, they are swindling as many kids as they can scrape together so that they can continue to pay the existing coaches and administrators.

      I have coached some fantastic players in high school who honed their skills at the park and on the street, and never player club soccer... because they couldn't afford it.
      It is worse than not just having coaches of quality. Example. 20 kids show up for tryouts for U14. Coach is then directed by the DOC to tell all the kids they will be fielding 2 teams, so congratulations you have a spot here, even though they have no coach for this fake 2nd team yet. They lead the kids on, screw them over in the end when not enough kids come around to actually make another team. Instead they could have been honest up front and said 5 of you are not making the team after the first night and then the kids would have had a team to play on somewhere else. Yes, I have witnessed this twice.. same basic scenario with a major club. To any coach of DOC reading this that has done this to a kid... $crew YOU !

      Comment


        #63
        Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
        I agree, I just don't see a lot of kick and chase and our club or the teams we play. But focus on all of it, including the FINISH!
        We're talking about u12 and below and I see a lot of kick and chase and total chaos at these younger ages.

        I don't see too many u10s playing out the back or even really using much of a midfield. Or u11s for that matter.

        I don't know what games (at that age) you are looking at, but I have been to a lot of them and I can think of only two u10 teams that play good soccer. One in Palm Beach and one in Miami. Will not state names!

        Comment


          #64
          I think the state of youth soccer is sad. I see these parents taking their kid to every camp, traveling an hour+ to practice, travelling all over the state if not country and half the time it's the parents with money, not the kids with talent. Of course, the kids will get better playing that often, but there is basically one type of kid on these teams - one who has parents that either have plenty of money(bored facebook housewives) or are willing to sacrifice everything to make sure they can say their kid is on the "it" team. To have 26 players on an ecnl or even pre-ecnl team is an outrage! Are these parents that DUMB? How in the world are they going to get quality time - I know, I know, work harder. It reminds me of healthcare - outrageous premiums for those of us that are making any money, $500 knee braces, $1000 MRI's, etc. etc. Why? Because we take it! There will never be a shortage of parents who think their kid is the best, so I don't see ANY changes happening anytime soon - it's a CASH COW!

          Comment


            #65
            Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
            Ok, I'm back.

            I don't have an issue with a youth soccer club operating like a business. I would just prefer that business not exist for the sake of profit.

            I don't have a problem with a coach wanting to be paid for his time. I, however, coach because I love the game and love the opportunity to instill in others that same appreciation for it. I have a job, I don't need to make money off of kids and their parents who are trying to do something constructive, especially when it involves something I hold very dear.

            The larger, big money clubs seem to have it backward. Instead of marketing their clubs honestly, taking the kids they get, and then making sure they have enough paid coaches and administrators, they are swindling as many kids as they can scrape together so that they can continue to pay the existing coaches and administrators.

            I have coached some fantastic players in high school who honed their skills at the park and on the street, and never player club soccer... because they couldn't afford it.
            Thanks again, Coach. Your heart is where it should be. However, let me play the devil's advocate with one aspect of your third paragraph and suggest that clubs really can't wait to see who registers before they hire coaches.

            Well before this time of year, the powers that be at many clubs create a proposed budget, one which will include the sum of money that can be spent on coaches, based upon a reasonable forecast of the number of players and number of teams that are expected for the upcoming year, and will then make their best efforts to lock in the best available coaches for those expected teams within that coaching budget before tryouts.

            Many parents, including this one, are not going to register their children at any club unless that club has qualified, designated and committed coaches listed before tryouts for the teams their children wish to join, i.e., the same coaches who will select the players for those teams and tell the players and parents of those teams at tryouts which league or leagues and which tournaments those teams will play in and what the monthly team fees will be because of those tournaments that are not covered by the club's registration fees.

            While we both love soccer, we just have a different view of how clubs should be operated.

            Comment


              #66
              Youth soccer literally has thousands of adults building their professional careers on the backs of children. If those children win, the coach can get a better coaching job, maybe even a college job. If they lose, the coaches career is jeopardy. Parents are literally paying these coaches to damage their children psychological, by over working them and putting un-due pressure on them (nevermind the verbal abuse committed by many coaches). It is complete and utter insanity. It is not sustainable.

              Comment


                #67
                Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                I think the state of youth soccer is sad. I see these parents taking their kid to every camp, traveling an hour+ to practice, travelling all over the state if not country and half the time it's the parents with money, not the kids with talent. Of course, the kids will get better playing that often, but there is basically one type of kid on these teams - one who has parents that either have plenty of money(bored facebook housewives) or are willing to sacrifice everything to make sure they can say their kid is on the "it" team. To have 26 players on an ecnl or even pre-ecnl team is an outrage! Are these parents that DUMB? How in the world are they going to get quality time - I know, I know, work harder. It reminds me of healthcare - outrageous premiums for those of us that are making any money, $500 knee braces, $1000 MRI's, etc. etc. Why? Because we take it! There will never be a shortage of parents who think their kid is the best, so I don't see ANY changes happening anytime soon - it's a CASH COW!
                here's the problem ... of those parents that are pushing their kids and paying $$ and putting in insane long hours driving around the state, how many of them truly are fans of the sport? how many of them watch an international match once a week or even once a month? I would say a minority only. so the majority of them are easily to manipulate since they cannot differentiate a good practice or coach from a bad one and really have no idea what "development" really looks like. In business terms, you have an uneducated consumer..

                Comment


                  #68
                  Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                  here's the problem ... of those parents that are pushing their kids and paying $$ and putting in insane long hours driving around the state, how many of them truly are fans of the sport? how many of them watch an international match once a week or even once a month? I would say a minority only. so the majority of them are easily to manipulate since they cannot differentiate a good practice or coach from a bad one and really have no idea what "development" really looks like. In business terms, you have an uneducated consumer..
                  very well said...most of the time the coach is bad if they don't play their kid or if they lose, but is an awesome coach if they play their kid and they win. It's like taking candy from babies.

                  Comment


                    #69
                    Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                    I think the state of youth soccer is sad. I see these parents taking their kid to every camp, traveling an hour+ to practice, travelling all over the state if not country and half the time it's the parents with money, not the kids with talent. Of course, the kids will get better playing that often, but there is basically one type of kid on these teams - one who has parents that either have plenty of money(bored facebook housewives) or are willing to sacrifice everything to make sure they can say their kid is on the "it" team. To have 26 players on an ecnl or even pre-ecnl team is an outrage! Are these parents that DUMB? How in the world are they going to get quality time - I know, I know, work harder. It reminds me of healthcare - outrageous premiums for those of us that are making any money, $500 knee braces, $1000 MRI's, etc. etc. Why? Because we take it! There will never be a shortage of parents who think their kid is the best, so I don't see ANY changes happening anytime soon - it's a CASH COW!
                    Are you a TS coach? I agree, 26 players is too many but 20 to 22 on high level travel teams is okay. There are enough players to scrimmage 11v11 and half the time there are injured players or those needing to do college id camps or take the SAT. It's not the end of the world if the parents are supporting their kids and want the best for their kids, but I agree the outrageous traveling can be challenging on the players and parents. I agree, the health care is out of wack and so is the cost of playing soccer, and we all need to keep working on reforming things.

                    Comment


                      #70
                      Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                      The USSF small-sided initiative actually implements a form of your proposed rule. I think it is U10 that will have a "retreat" line painted on the field (at least in early versions of the proposal). Opposing players will be required to retreat behind the line when the keeper picks up the ball. The keeper is then required to distribute the ball to a defensive player. I don't remember whether punting was explicitly prohibited, but it makes sense given the "no-heading" policy for 10s and below.
                      The problem with this rule is that it ignores the real conditions in the real game. Players will never learn to play from the back if they can to do it without opposition. A rule, such as to forbid punting the ball over the half way line, would have been much more realistic. Except, now kids will learn how to control an aerial ball. We have one more proof that regulation does not work, education does.

                      Comment


                        #71
                        Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                        Plus, the retreat line defeats the whole point. The idea is to out the GK and left and right backs under intense pressure. Then, we see who can get out of the pressure. That's how you find players. The ability to create space when under intense pressure using first touch, smarts, or physical play or a combination of the three. Without the pressure (which the retreat line eliminates) you lose the benefit of playing from the back.

                        While it will mean that lots of goals are given up and parents may whine, 1) it is equally difficult for both teams; 2) you will see most of your most technical and smart players in LB/RB/midfield positions, exactly where they should be ; 3) left back and right backs will not longer be human walls; and 4) MOST IMPORTANTLY, by the time these kids reach u13, they will know how to play out the back using a midfield and opening up the field. This is soccer. Not kick and chase.
                        Kids are not going to learn how to play from the back unless they have to do it against real pressure.

                        Comment


                          #72
                          Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                          Just left an OC coach who insisted defenders long ball out of the back. Went crazy if they actually tied to keep possession. Paid a lot of money for that fool.
                          Actually, youth players should learn both, plating out from the back with short passing, as well as playing the long ball the right way, i.e. do not punt blindly, send it wit the intention of collecting with a teammate and learning hoe to controll the second and third ball.

                          Comment


                            #73
                            Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                            I am not some sort of crazy game purist. This is just how they play internationally. You take a random tournament in Europe and all the kids play out the back. The bad kids. the good kids. the mediocre kids. the athletic kids. the slow kids. the ugly kids. all of them. they understand that this is a part of the game they are playing. Its not some way to play pretty soccer; it IS soccer. it is a sine qua non .. an essential part of the game. here, you see a team play out the back effectively and it turns heads. in Europe it means nothing. it means you are playing the game.

                            and by the way, at u13, a GK may choose to punt if GK sees an advantage. But the kids will know how to maintain possession of the ball if needed by playing wide. enough on this. There is so much wrong with US soccer that I think sometimes simple solutions like this that carry multiple benefits are the only way to start to make progress.
                            Playing the long ball is a legitimate style of play to reach certain strategic objectives if necessary. Kids should learn to play both ways.

                            Comment


                              #74
                              Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                              Ok, I'm back.

                              I don't have an issue with a youth soccer club operating like a business. I would just prefer that business not exist for the sake of profit.

                              I don't have a problem with a coach wanting to be paid for his time. I, however, coach because I love the game and love the opportunity to instill in others that same appreciation for it. I have a job, I don't need to make money off of kids and their parents who are trying to do something constructive, especially when it involves something I hold very dear.

                              The larger, big money clubs seem to have it backward. Instead of marketing their clubs honestly, taking the kids they get, and then making sure they have enough paid coaches and administrators, they are swindling as many kids as they can scrape together so that they can continue to pay the existing coaches and administrators.

                              I have coached some fantastic players in high school who honed their skills at the park and on the street, and never player club soccer... because they couldn't afford it.
                              I agree with you. One can operate a business with the main goal of providing good service and make money, or with the only real goal of making money. Many clubs chose the last.

                              Comment


                                #75
                                Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                                Thanks again, Coach. Your heart is where it should be. However, let me play the devil's advocate with one aspect of your third paragraph and suggest that clubs really can't wait to see who registers before they hire coaches.

                                Well before this time of year, the powers that be at many clubs create a proposed budget, one which will include the sum of money that can be spent on coaches, based upon a reasonable forecast of the number of players and number of teams that are expected for the upcoming year, and will then make their best efforts to lock in the best available coaches for those expected teams within that coaching budget before tryouts.

                                Many parents, including this one, are not going to register their children at any club unless that club has qualified, designated and committed coaches listed before tryouts for the teams their children wish to join, i.e., the same coaches who will select the players for those teams and tell the players and parents of those teams at tryouts which league or leagues and which tournaments those teams will play in and what the monthly team fees will be because of those tournaments that are not covered by the club's registration fees.

                                While we both love soccer, we just have a different view of how clubs should be operated.
                                Adding players because of a proposed budget is just an excuse to make money and pay everyone. It is a "proposed" budget because it is unknown. It's an estimate. It may work out and it may not. You're suggesting it's okay to overlook the well-being of players so we have enough of them to pay our coaches. This is, at best, unethical. Coaches know in any given year there is a possibility that there won't be enough quality players to field a truly competitive team. If you must guarantee them pay up front then have a contingency plan to use them in another capacity. Talking more players into sticking around so that you can meet a proposed budget is just wrong. These are kids.

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