Men's soccer: which is better Ivy or Patriot League?

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Are they basically at the same level, soccer-wise, or is Ivy league stronger?

I know I can look at NCAA standings, but which are the strongest and weakest teams in each league? (I think there's more to a program than their NCAA finish last year).

And, a reminder -- this is about *men's * soccer.

Thanks!

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I was recently having a similar discussion concerning Automobiles and whether I'd rather own a Gremlin or a Pacer.

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Yeah yeah yeah, whatever. So they aren't Stanford or the University of Maryland. No matter, your kid isn't going to either of those schools either.

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Yeah yeah yeah, whatever. So they aren't Stanford or the University of Maryland. No matter, your kid isn't going to either of those schools either.

Sure, but if your kids does go to Stanford or Maryland, they are not able to get a real degree. The Ivies and Patriot League actually care if the students get a real degree.

One big difference between the Ivies and Patriot league is the number of international players. The Ivies have way more international players (personally I think they usually flame out but that is what is in fashion right now). If those international players were any good, they would have stayed in Europe to play pro soccer.

Gotta find the right fit, remember almost no one is going pro (if they were they wouldn't be going to college). The whole development system in the US is not setup like Europe.

Since we are not in Europe, better make the best of the situation.

[Unregistered]

Are they basically at the same level, soccer-wise, or is Ivy league stronger?

I know I can look at NCAA standings, but which are the strongest and weakest teams in each league? (I think there's more to a program than their NCAA finish last year).

And, a reminder -- this is about *men's * soccer.

Thanks!

Ivy League is generally more competitive league top to bottom. Every one of the 8 has been in the hunt for a title over the last 5 years and it’s likely to stay that way. There is no program there to be avoided and of course they are all excellent schools. Patriot league is more imbalanced. Top of that league (eg colgate) may be a bit better soccer-wise than top of the Ivys in a given year, but bottom half (eg holy cross) is likely a bit worse. All very good schools too, and they can offer scholarships so they can compete recruiting-wise, but Ivys have better financial aid and the school reputations that make them highly competitive for recruits. Neither league is Big 10, but they are not claiming to be.

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Sure, but if your kids does go to Stanford or Maryland, they are not able to get a real degree. The Ivies and Patriot League actually care if the students get a real degree.

One big difference between the Ivies and Patriot league is the number of international players. The Ivies have way more international players (personally I think they usually flame out but that is what is in fashion right now). If those international players were any good, they would have stayed in Europe to play pro soccer.

Gotta find the right fit, remember almost no one is going pro (if they were they wouldn't be going to college). The whole development system in the US is not setup like Europe.

Since we are not in Europe, better make the best of the situation.

Did it occur to you that many ivy bound players don’t want to go pro?

[Unregistered]

Sure, but if your kids does go to Stanford or Maryland, they are not able to get a real degree. The Ivies and Patriot League actually care if the students get a real degree.

One big difference between the Ivies and Patriot league is the number of international players. The Ivies have way more international players (personally I think they usually flame out but that is what is in fashion right now). If those international players were any good, they would have stayed in Europe to play pro soccer.

Gotta find the right fit, remember almost no one is going pro (if they were they wouldn't be going to college). The whole development system in the US is not setup like Europe.

Since we are not in Europe, better make the best of the situation.

Those pro rejects are still better trained than most of our US players. That's why coaches recruit them.

[Unregistered]

Are they basically at the same level, soccer-wise, or is Ivy league stronger?

I know I can look at NCAA standings, but which are the strongest and weakest teams in each league? (I think there's more to a program than their NCAA finish last year).

And, a reminder -- this is about *men's * soccer.

Thanks!

Come on. How realistic is it that a kid who could get into an Ivy is looking at Patriot league schools? Yes they're good schools, but a step down academically vs Ivy. And Stanford vs Maryland? Again, no comparison on academics, just soccer wise. A Sports Marketing degree from Stanford will open far more doors than Maryland. An Ivy kid can probably get into Stanford but may not be a Stanford level player. A PL kid can probably get into Maryland on grades, but not soccer.

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Ivy League is generally more competitive league top to bottom. Every one of the 8 has been in the hunt for a title over the last 5 years and it’s likely to stay that way. There is no program there to be avoided and of course they are all excellent schools. Patriot league is more imbalanced. Top of that league (eg colgate) may be a bit better soccer-wise than top of the Ivys in a given year, but bottom half (eg holy cross) is likely a bit worse. All very good schools too, and they can offer scholarships so they can compete recruiting-wise, but Ivys have better financial aid and the school reputations that make them highly competitive for recruits. Neither league is Big 10, but they are not claiming to be.

Thank you, very helpful!

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Come on. How realistic is it that a kid who could get into an Ivy is looking at Patriot league schools? Yes they're good schools, but a step down academically vs Ivy. And Stanford vs Maryland? Again, no comparison on academics, just soccer wise. A Sports Marketing degree from Stanford will open far more doors than Maryland. An Ivy kid can probably get into Stanford but may not be a Stanford level player. A PL kid can probably get into Maryland on grades, but not soccer.

Was asking about soccer only. My son is at the beginning of the recruiting journey, and might be able to play at a patriot league level. However I would prefer he go to a more academically highly ranked d3 than a patriot school (though they are great schools!). He has the academics to meet the AI. But does he have the soccer skill? That was the basis of my question. Clearly the Ivies would be reached. Stanford and Maryland are out of the question from a soccer perspective! He is going to an ivy I'd camp in a couple of weeks, so we will learn more.

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Was asking about soccer only. My son is at the beginning of the recruiting journey, and might be able to play at a patriot league level. However I would prefer he go to a more academically highly ranked d3 than a patriot school (though they are great schools!). He has the academics to meet the AI. But does he have the soccer skill? That was the basis of my question. Clearly the Ivies would be reached. Stanford and Maryland are out of the question from a soccer perspective! He is going to an ivy I'd camp in a couple of weeks, so we will learn more.

There are many D3s that are higher ranked academically than PL schools that have good soccer without the D1 commitment. Have him explore the UA Conference schools - top D3 academics @ U Rochester, U Chicago and others. https://d3soccer.com/seasons/men/2019/index.

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There are many D3s that are higher ranked academically than PL schools that have good soccer without the D1 commitment. Have him explore the UA Conference schools - top D3 academics @ U Rochester, U Chicago and others. https://d3soccer.com/seasons/men/2019/index.

Best to have several options, keep several irons in the fire (D3, Ivy, Patriot League). Coaches back out on verbal accepts so be wary. Also see if you can figure out if he is a "top recruit" at a particular school. Always good to know.

Some things to consider
Is the team looking for his preferred positions?
Do Freshman usually get playing time?
Does he like the existing players?
Do the existing players like the coach?
What are the practice facilities like?
How far are the practice facilities from campus?
Will his roomate be another soccer player?
What time does the team practice? (before, during or after classes)
How far do they travel (ie how many classes will he miss).
Does the school have the major he is interested in?

One more thing, coach him on how to talk to each school so that they think you are serious and interested (not just in the soccer part but also the school).

The coach is likely to ask "...why do want to go to Univ of XYZ" Many kids (including mine) were not prepared to talk about the academics other than Ivy schools are really good (which is not a great answer).

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Last two posts are good advice, but beware all coaches will tell you you're a top recruit. Since there's so little $ in men's soccer, and none in D3 or Ivy, it becomes much harder to gauge real interest (for girls if you're getting at least 50% you're doing ok). Best to look at team rosters and those players' backgrounds. If your player doesn't match the accolades or club level competition they might get a spot but are less likely to play. Attending an ID event will also give him an idea of how well he fits in.

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Was asking about soccer only. My son is at the beginning of the recruiting journey, and might be able to play at a patriot league level. However I would prefer he go to a more academically highly ranked d3 than a patriot school (though they are great schools!). He has the academics to meet the AI. But does he have the soccer skill? That was the basis of my question. Clearly the Ivies would be reached. Stanford and Maryland are out of the question from a soccer perspective! He is going to an ivy I'd camp in a couple of weeks, so we will learn more.

He may have the academics to satisfy the AI, but so do a lot of kids--especially in New England. You certainly need that, but you also need the coach interest and the available slot on the team. The D3 vs Patriot question is an interesting one and probably depends on the kid and the school. The latter is obviously D1, so it will be stronger soccer generally, but there are great schools and pretty good soccer at DIII. Depends on the kid--would you rather play at Tufts and compete for the DIII national championship or at HC and lose consistently? Both are terrific schools, so you really cant go wrong. The latter is D1, but I wonder about the soccer experience. Likely depends on the kid and the family. And scholarships matter too--available at D1, not at D3. Of course, you still need the coach interest in order to have these kind of choices. Good luck with the process.

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He may have the academics to satisfy the AI, but so do a lot of kids--especially in New England. You certainly need that, but you also need the coach interest and the available slot on the team.

Um, yeah, this is exactly why I asked the question.

Not comparing NESCAC v patriot league; not interested in my son going to a lower ranked academic school where the soccer would be more all consuming. My son is already in conversations with NESCAC coaches, and they (or ivy, if he is good enough) would be my first choice. After certain NESCAC schools my next choice would be schools like Kenyon or U Rochester, where the academics are not as highly ranked as William's or Tufts, but the soccer is not as demanding as say Bucknell or Colgate.

It is very early days, and I know we will get more information and feedback as the year progresses (plus may well change our minds!)