How much training to be competitive?

[Unregistered]

Many have the misperception that capable, skilled, intelligent soccer players can be developed in a couple hour and a half sessions a week, over 5 or 6 months a year. This is impossible. There is no magic coach capable of pulling off this feat.

Kids need to have a ball at their feet hours a day, not hours a week. When a friend took his A license test, Tab Ramos, one of the most skillful US soccer players ever, was in the class. Tab, even in mid age, dribbled and juggled the ball from the time he woke up until he went to bed. Up and down stairs, across the campus, and even small touches foot to foot during lunch. This level of commitment, some would even term, obsession, is rare here in the US. It is the norm in many other countries.

Bullesye.
Coaches take far too much credit for everything...show them a few simple touch drills and they do the rest...if not, it will become apparent.
The egoism of some coaches rivals that of Trump.

[Unregistered]

Not exactly. NEFC at U12+ does 2 90 minute practice sessions with the team and a 90 minute technical session per week.

You are also expected to be working on fitness, juggling, and technical skills on your own when not practicing. The reality is that top level u12's are training with their club and team for 4 1/2 hours per week and probably training on their own at least another 2-3 hours per week.

First, the post you're responding to isn't from an egotistical rec coach knucklehead. I cash your check. Thanks by the way.

Second, the point of my post isn't to denigrate every coach at the rec level, but a certain mentality of coach, rec or otherwise, that don't have age appropriate priorities.

So let me clear it up for you genius, it was implied that the coach I'm saying I prefer is, wait for it, actually capable of developing players, not merely inclined to develop players.

Because guess what? There are coaches who could concern themselves with long-term development and don't because they care too much about other short-term considerations like results or in a sense not enough being ill-prepared, using training time poorly or outright wasting it.

Many have the misperception that capable, skilled, intelligent soccer players can be developed in a couple hour and a half sessions a week, over 5 or 6 months a year. This is impossible. There is no magic coach capable of pulling off this feat.

Kids need to have a ball at their feet hours a day, not hours a week. When a friend took his A license test, Tab Ramos, one of the most skillful US soccer players ever, was in the class. Tab, even in mid age, dribbled and juggled the ball from the time he woke up until he went to bed. Up and down stairs, across the campus, and even small touches foot to foot during lunch. This level of commitment, some would even term, obsession, is rare here in the US. It is the norm in many other countries.

Here in lies a lot of the problem. The only actual difference in the end product between a team that practices 2 hours a week and one that practices 4 1/2 hours is probably about $2,000+. Of course the team that is practicing twice as much as the town team will be incrementally better but that really calls into question just what the measuring stick everyone is using because in reality that second team is still practicing about half as much as a true top flight team is from a leading soccer playing nation. The actual level of competitiveness of that second team is still quite low because in reality it's filled with a lot of rich kids who are merely "dabbling" at soccer before they head off towards what their parents see as "real" careers in medicine, law or on Wall Street.

Then we bring in the guy who is taking your money and laughing at you. What many of you don't seem to get is that he's setting the bar so low that it's laughable and justifying it by filling everyone with pseudo political correctness bs about age appropriate practices. The truth that he is sugar coating is that you have places like China (http://www.smash.com/grim-photos-abu...mpic-athletes/) that you are competing against in sports (and in business) who don't adhere to such romantic notions and only recognize two outcomes in life - winning and losing. While no one wants to see their children abused like that for anything let alone a stupid sport it is important to recognize that the bar is set infinity higher than where guys like him set it and that in the end what they are selling is just a placebo that does nothing more than give the appearance of soccer development. It doesn't actually work that way and because of that you are all ******* your money away.

[Unregistered]

Question for the group: I coach a U12 team that only meets twice a week for one hour sessions. We're not really a REC team because my club has tryouts. We're a middle tier, between REC and Competitive level soccer for families that don't want to travel. I've been coaching for several years, I understand the game well, and I'm a good teacher. I believe I would do a decent job coaching a competitive team but have no interest in it yet.

I plan to stay with this team for a while. At this point there isn't much difference in playing ability between my team and our competitive team. My question is this: If I stay with this team for a long time, is it possible to keep up with the progress of the competitive teams by meeting only 2 (or maybe 3) hours a week? I am using the same teaching methods and I'm pretty good at spotting weaknesses and fixing them.

you are a coach for a "select" team. A select team is for kids who do not want to do year round soccer, multi-sport, or parents who are not committed. Select coaches
are usually volunteers or paid a small stipend to coach. It is mostly for fun and maybe,
a platform to move up in coaching, as you have you indicated.

Is your kid on the team? That's great that you are spending time helping out your club and kid. I don't know what your definition of a competitive team means, so here is an example of a competitive team to compare notes in training.

-18+ games in tournaments over the summer and the team plays up in weaker tourneys.
-summer training camps
-4 x 90 minute practices a week
-1 or 2 games on sat and/or sun
-at least 3 tournaments in fall to spring, not including league.
-weekly supplemental of strength, agility, quickness training.
-most kids do privates and/or elite training programs beyond the 4 x a week.
-some kids do indoor/futsal
-team brings in alot of hardware

This is the A team of a big club. Many of these kids will be moving on to higher level division soon. I am familiar with select level teams, so I can understand your position.
So, re-read your post and say that one additional hour of training
will be able to keep up with a competitive team (in relative terms of your club).

[Unregistered]

Here in lies a lot of the problem. The only actual difference in the end product between a team that practices 2 hours a week and one that practices 4 1/2 hours is probably about $2,000+. Of course the team that is practicing twice as much as the town team will be incrementally better but that really calls into question just what the measuring stick everyone is using because in reality that second team is still practicing about half as much as a true top flight team is from a leading soccer playing nation. The actual level of competitiveness of that second team is still quite low because in reality it's filled with a lot of rich kids who are merely "dabbling" at soccer before they head off towards what their parents see as "real" careers in medicine, law or on Wall Street.

Then we bring in the guy who is taking your money and laughing at you. What many of you don't seem to get is that he's setting the bar so low that it's laughable and justifying it by filling everyone with pseudo political correctness bs about age appropriate practices. The truth that he is sugar coating is that you have places like China (http://www.smash.com/grim-photos-abu...mpic-athletes/) that you are competing against in sports (and in business) who don't adhere to such romantic notions and only recognize two outcomes in life - winning and losing. While no one wants to see their children abused like that for anything let alone a stupid sport it is important to recognize that the bar is set infinity higher than where guys like him set it and that in the end what they are selling is just a placebo that does nothing more than give the appearance of soccer development. It doesn't actually work that way and because of that you are all ******* your money away.

And we all know what a powerhouse China is on the pitch...

[Unregistered]

you are a coach for a "select" team. A select team is for kids who do not want to do year round soccer, multi-sport, or parents who are not committed. Select coaches
are usually volunteers or paid a small stipend to coach. It is mostly for fun and maybe,
a platform to move up in coaching, as you have you indicated.

Is your kid on the team? That's great that you are spending time helping out your club and kid. I don't know what your definition of a competitive team means, so here is an example of a competitive team to compare notes in training.

-18+ games in tournaments over the summer and the team plays up in weaker tourneys.
-summer training camps
-4 x 90 minute practices a week
-1 or 2 games on sat and/or sun
-at least 3 tournaments in fall to spring, not including league.
-weekly supplemental of strength, agility, quickness training.
-most kids do privates and/or elite training programs beyond the 4 x a week.
-some kids do indoor/futsal
-team brings in alot of hardware

This is the A team of a big club. Many of these kids will be moving on to higher level division soon. I am familiar with select level teams, so I can understand your position.
So, re-read your post and say that one additional hour of training
will be able to keep up with a competitive team (in relative terms of your club).

Brings up a good point. The issue isn't really about 60 min. practices vs. 90 min. The select team is training 2 months in the fall and maybe 2 months in the spring. The competitive team is training 10 months out of the year (break in Dec. and break in July).
More than triple or quadruple the training sessions, ditto for the no. of competitions.

[Unregistered]

And we all know what a powerhouse China is on the pitch...

http://www.soccerwire.com/blog-posts...lay-in-europe/

Editor’s Note: This is the latest in our series of youth soccer coaching advice and practice sessions provided by ClubSportal. Read more about them at the bottom of this post or visit www.club-sportal.com for more information.

—

Last year I had the chance to take two of our club’s U12 boys teams to play in tournaments in Europe, and I want to share some of my experiences, as well as some of what I learned about the difference in the level of play and competition between European youth academy teams such as FC Porto, Liverpool, Betis, Real San Sebastian.

For some background, the teams I took to Europe consisted of players born in 2003 from the Washington, DC area. For our first tournament, the team was a mix of competitive players from four different clubs, and the second tournament was our club’s team that was a State Cup contender in VA.

The first tournament included some of the top academies from Europe, such as Barcelona, Inter Milan, Seville, Real Betis, Liverpool and other big name clubs. Known as Mundialito (www.mundialito.org), it is considered to be one of the top youth tournaments in Europe for hopefully obvious reasons. Our top team finished the group stage with a 2-2 record, but then lost by 10 goals in the first round of playoffs to Real Betis.

The second tournament was the Donosti Cup (www.donosticup.com), an event at an a lower level than Mundialito, and also featuring many American teams each summer. It also featured strong teams form local pro sides San-Sebastian and Bilbao. Our top team finished the group stage with 4-0 record, beat the San Diego Surf in the first round of the playoffs, and lost to the top San-Sebastian team 0-2 in a competitive game.

Hopefully, the caliber of teams and the corresponding results give you a sense of what the competition was like at each of the tournaments.

Now my thoughts on what I saw:

There were basically three different levels of play – schools (3rd tier), clubs (2nd tier), and academies such as FC Porto, Sporting Lisbon, Inter Milan and others (1st tier). Our teams were very successful against 3rd and 2nd tier teams, but there was a big gap between our teams and the top academies in the world. Why couldn’t we compete against 1st tier Academies?
1.Our team was a “club” team. It was a very successful one, but still a club team that had weaknesses in certain positions.
2.More importantly, even at ages 10, 11, and 12, the game in Europe is about: •Ball movement o Movement without the ball
•‘Natural’ understanding of where to move
•Understanding when to dribble (take space) and when to release the ball
•Speed of play
•Simplicity of the game – no super-flashy moves (there isn’t time), but a simple approach of taking the available space, releasing the ball, and providing immediate support through movement without the ball
•Players understanding their tactical roles and the positions they play
•Balanced teams that move the ball very well (Academy teams)
•Knowing exactly how to play – we’ve seen a lot of “patterns” that probably result from tactical superiority


Talking to many Academy coaches on the trip, I got the impression that everything in professional academies is focused on creating an environment where players develop a “quickness of thinking,” decision making, and an understanding of the game.

Dribbling moves and creativity come more “within the game” when there is an opportunity to do so, rather than being “drilled” on a regular basis.

Most of the training sessions are spent playing games where variables and conditions are set up to enforce a particular element of the game. These are done in small-sided environments encourage kids to play as a team (or a small group).

Conditions are set up in a way that players learn and instinctively understand the tactical aspects of the game from an early age.

I am not talking about 11v11 tactics or pressure-cover-balance tactics, but rather 2-4 player movement, creating space, body shape to receive the ball, and play “within the team.”

Coaches in Europe are less focused on a particular “topic,” like 1v1 attacking or 2v2 defending, but rather on teaching the “natural” game elements (or the game as a “whole”), with specific objectives and variables for each particular activity.

In all that we learned, the following training activity I think sums up an example of how these top academies emphasize the ‘teaching the game within the game’ approach, and putting the particular conditions in place to highlight certain elements to focus on while playing.

It is a continuous transitional 3v2 game in the offensive half that develops quick transition, offensive abilities, teaches tactical numerical advantage and enforces players to move without the ball to support the attack and score one touch in one of three available goals.

[Unregistered]

An even better article about what it takes to be a top level soccer player.

How a Soccer Star Is Made

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/06/ma...er-t.html?_r=0

[Unregistered]

http://www.soccerwire.com/blog-posts...lay-in-europe/

Editor’s Note: This is the latest in our series of youth soccer coaching advice and practice sessions provided by ClubSportal. Read more about them at the bottom of this post or visit www.club-sportal.com for more information.

—

Last year I had the chance to take two of our club’s U12 boys teams to play in tournaments in Europe, and I want to share some of my experiences, as well as some of what I learned about the difference in the level of play and competition between European youth academy teams such as FC Porto, Liverpool, Betis, Real San Sebastian.

For some background, the teams I took to Europe consisted of players born in 2003 from the Washington, DC area. For our first tournament, the team was a mix of competitive players from four different clubs, and the second tournament was our club’s team that was a State Cup contender in VA.

The first tournament included some of the top academies from Europe, such as Barcelona, Inter Milan, Seville, Real Betis, Liverpool and other big name clubs. Known as Mundialito (www.mundialito.org), it is considered to be one of the top youth tournaments in Europe for hopefully obvious reasons. Our top team finished the group stage with a 2-2 record, but then lost by 10 goals in the first round of playoffs to Real Betis.

The second tournament was the Donosti Cup (www.donosticup.com), an event at an a lower level than Mundialito, and also featuring many American teams each summer. It also featured strong teams form local pro sides San-Sebastian and Bilbao. Our top team finished the group stage with 4-0 record, beat the San Diego Surf in the first round of the playoffs, and lost to the top San-Sebastian team 0-2 in a competitive game.

Hopefully, the caliber of teams and the corresponding results give you a sense of what the competition was like at each of the tournaments.

Now my thoughts on what I saw:

There were basically three different levels of play – schools (3rd tier), clubs (2nd tier), and academies such as FC Porto, Sporting Lisbon, Inter Milan and others (1st tier). Our teams were very successful against 3rd and 2nd tier teams, but there was a big gap between our teams and the top academies in the world. Why couldn’t we compete against 1st tier Academies?
1.Our team was a “club” team. It was a very successful one, but still a club team that had weaknesses in certain positions.
2.More importantly, even at ages 10, 11, and 12, the game in Europe is about: •Ball movement o Movement without the ball
•‘Natural’ understanding of where to move
•Understanding when to dribble (take space) and when to release the ball
•Speed of play
•Simplicity of the game – no super-flashy moves (there isn’t time), but a simple approach of taking the available space, releasing the ball, and providing immediate support through movement without the ball
•Players understanding their tactical roles and the positions they play
•Balanced teams that move the ball very well (Academy teams)
•Knowing exactly how to play – we’ve seen a lot of “patterns” that probably result from tactical superiority


Talking to many Academy coaches on the trip, I got the impression that everything in professional academies is focused on creating an environment where players develop a “quickness of thinking,” decision making, and an understanding of the game.

Dribbling moves and creativity come more “within the game” when there is an opportunity to do so, rather than being “drilled” on a regular basis.

Most of the training sessions are spent playing games where variables and conditions are set up to enforce a particular element of the game. These are done in small-sided environments encourage kids to play as a team (or a small group).

Conditions are set up in a way that players learn and instinctively understand the tactical aspects of the game from an early age.

I am not talking about 11v11 tactics or pressure-cover-balance tactics, but rather 2-4 player movement, creating space, body shape to receive the ball, and play “within the team.”

Coaches in Europe are less focused on a particular “topic,” like 1v1 attacking or 2v2 defending, but rather on teaching the “natural” game elements (or the game as a “whole”), with specific objectives and variables for each particular activity.

In all that we learned, the following training activity I think sums up an example of how these top academies emphasize the ‘teaching the game within the game’ approach, and putting the particular conditions in place to highlight certain elements to focus on while playing.

It is a continuous transitional 3v2 game in the offensive half that develops quick transition, offensive abilities, teaches tactical numerical advantage and enforces players to move without the ball to support the attack and score one touch in one of three available goals.

Interesting that the article is about a U12 team comprised of basically club level all stars and the author sees them as only competitive against the 2nd (club) and 3rd (school) level of European soccer with a huge gap between those levels and the top level which is the academy level. Now consider that the OP was really talking about an in town rec team and asking if an additional hour or two of practice would allow them to stay competitive with the travel team when the real question is whether or not the additional practice would have any meaningful impact what so ever and if it did, to what end? Remember he describes the players as choosing his level team because of the lesser commitment level. What good will the additional time spent on soccer generate other than keeping the kids busy? Is that what the objective is, baby sitting?

[Unregistered]

An even better article about what it takes to be a top level soccer player.

How a Soccer Star Is Made

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/06/ma...er-t.html?_r=0

Here is an interesting passage from the article for the coach who wants to make a point about "age appropriate" practices. Clearly he thinks 12 years old is too young to put any sort of pressure to produce on yet in other parts of the world soccer clubs are not afraid to put 8 year olds in a produce or be gone type of environment.

One player there was de Jong’s discovery, an 8-year-old who, he said, had “talent that is off the charts.” But if this boy were to be accepted into the academy, it would mean he had completed just the first of a succession of relentless challenges. Ajax puts young players into a competitive caldron, a culture of constant improvement in which they either survive and advance or are discarded. It is not what most would regard as a child-friendly environment, but it is one that sorts out the real prodigies — those capable of playing at an elite international level — from the merely gifted.

[Unregistered]

Many have the misperception that capable, skilled, intelligent soccer players can be developed in a couple hour and a half sessions a week, over 5 or 6 months a year. This is impossible. There is no magic coach capable of pulling off this feat.

Kids need to have a ball at their feet hours a day, not hours a week. When a friend took his A license test, Tab Ramos, one of the most skillful US soccer players ever, was in the class. Tab, even in mid age, dribbled and juggled the ball from the time he woke up until he went to bed. Up and down stairs, across the campus, and even small touches foot to foot during lunch. This level of commitment, some would even term, obsession, is rare here in the US. It is the norm in many other countries.

Ooh storytime! That's the TS I really enjoy, anecdotes and hyperbole to prove the rule.

Would now be a good time to tell my story of the all-state high school player, who never played a minute of club soccer, who went on to play college soccer?

[Unregistered]

The thread title says "competitive" for those who've gone off on a tangent of nonsense.

[Unregistered]

Ooh storytime! That's the TS I really enjoy, anecdotes and hyperbole to prove the rule.

Would now be a good time to tell my story of the all-state high school player, who never played a minute of club soccer, who went on to play college soccer?

How was the example given of Ramos anecdote or hyperbole?

I'll do you one better.

http://www.espnfc.com/blog/espn-fc-u...o-return-to-us

Caio lived on Nantucket from age 10-16, never played club soccer, was elected all state, and was recruited by top college D1 programs. He instead chose a professional career in Brazil and now overseas. He has played in front of 80,000 fans for Botafogo, and been recruited by the USMNT, as well as MLS teams.

How did this kid do it without Brit accent coaches directing his development a couple hour and a half practices a week?

[Unregistered]

Ooh storytime! That's the TS I really enjoy, anecdotes and hyperbole to prove the rule.

Would now be a good time to tell my story of the all-state high school player, who never played a minute of club soccer, who went on to play college soccer?

Yes, tell us the story. Who? What state? What Division? What college?

[Unregistered]

How was the example given of Ramos anecdote or hyperbole?

I'll do you one better.

http://www.espnfc.com/blog/espn-fc-u...o-return-to-us

Caio lived on Nantucket from age 10-16, never played club soccer, was elected all state, and was recruited by top college D1 programs. He instead chose a professional career in Brazil and now overseas. He has played in front of 80,000 fans for Botafogo, and been recruited by the USMNT, as well as MLS teams.

How did this kid do it without Brit accent coaches directing his development a couple hour and a half practices a week?

Article says he lived in the soccer Mecca of Brazil for 10 years before moving here.

[Unregistered]

How was the example given of Ramos anecdote or hyperbole?

I'll do you one better.

http://www.espnfc.com/blog/espn-fc-u...o-return-to-us

Caio lived on Nantucket from age 10-16, never played club soccer, was elected all state, and was recruited by top college D1 programs. He instead chose a professional career in Brazil and now overseas. He has played in front of 80,000 fans for Botafogo, and been recruited by the USMNT, as well as MLS teams.

How did this kid do it without Brit accent coaches directing his development a couple hour and a half practices a week?

I remember reading about him. Rare case. Child prodigy? Like kids the can play music without being taught.