Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Pay to play article

Collapse
X
  •  
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    #31
    Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
    Probably a local Club Tournament Director.

    That such a position exists at a club says a lot.
    Tournaments are great but they seem beyond reasonable some ways definitely at younger age groups.

    I see no drastic changes possible. Tweak it to get rid of some costs so that it can open to up to more kids. I don't really ever see it being universal option for everyone. Playing soccer is not a life necessity. But I think it could be a lot cheaper.

    Comment


      #32
      When analyzing the current environment, one must come to grips that there are diametrical issues at hand.
      Youth soccer, like most other youth activities, were first designed and expanded to help alleviate parental anxiety. The roots of it are the Public Schools on NYC in the early part of the 20th century. At that time, is was organized sports to keep boys out of trouble. Interesting enough, the affluent wanted their children to have very little to do with it. No advantages.

      Later in the early 1990's the alleviation of parental anxiety graduated to the pay to play system, as parents sought out advantages for their children over others. Ego gratification, potential benefits regarding higher education access, etc. Especially after the WNT first World cup victory, when participation for girls went up, and more college teams were added.

      The other side of the coin is the quest for a " national team " , the development of children in regards to that endeavor , much of which goes against the grain regarding the pleasing of parents.

      The irony is that the way the system has developed , the consequences are many times increased parental and even child anxiety as a consequence.

      In my experience, there were plenty of parent coaches with knowledge of the game before the pay to pay era, it is just that societal changes created an environment in which many modern parents seek immediate gratification , and don't truly understand the process of development. They have been conditioned to think that winning is a sign of successful development. In many ways the American way is to throw money at a problem, thinking the problem will be solved. It just isn't in youth soccer, it is all across the board other childhood endeavors.

      Some of the basics of a traditional childhood have been taken way from children by the increasingly organized, specialized and fragmented structures in place, and many College administrators are seeing the consequences of that by parental meddling never seen before.

      A parental phone call to an Administrator at a $ 60,000 a year school " Please wake up my son and make sure he gets to class "

      Comment


        #33
        Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
        When analyzing the current environment, one must come to grips that there are diametrical issues at hand.
        Youth soccer, like most other youth activities, were first designed and expanded to help alleviate parental anxiety. The roots of it are the Public Schools on NYC in the early part of the 20th century. At that time, is was organized sports to keep boys out of trouble. Interesting enough, the affluent wanted their children to have very little to do with it. No advantages.

        Later in the early 1990's the alleviation of parental anxiety graduated to the pay to play system, as parents sought out advantages for their children over others. Ego gratification, potential benefits regarding higher education access, etc. Especially after the WNT first World cup victory, when participation for girls went up, and more college teams were added.

        The other side of the coin is the quest for a " national team " , the development of children in regards to that endeavor , much of which goes against the grain regarding the pleasing of parents.

        The irony is that the way the system has developed , the consequences are many times increased parental and even child anxiety as a consequence.

        In my experience, there were plenty of parent coaches with knowledge of the game before the pay to pay era, it is just that societal changes created an environment in which many modern parents seek immediate gratification , and don't truly understand the process of development. They have been conditioned to think that winning is a sign of successful development. In many ways the American way is to throw money at a problem, thinking the problem will be solved. It just isn't in youth soccer, it is all across the board other childhood endeavors.

        Some of the basics of a traditional childhood have been taken way from children by the increasingly organized, specialized and fragmented structures in place, and many College administrators are seeing the consequences of that by parental meddling never seen before.

        A parental phone call to an Administrator at a $ 60,000 a year school " Please wake up my son and make sure he gets to class "
        Re:parental coaches:spot on
        What many of the well heeled don't realize is that a tremendous number of young foreign coaches are not highly licensed nor well versed soccer gurus. Many have little more than gym degrees and are recruited by the clubs for their cost effectiveness. A smiling and perky college player would do just as well.

        Comment


          #34
          Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
          Re:parental coaches:spot on
          What many of the well heeled don't realize is that a tremendous number of young foreign coaches are not highly licensed nor well versed soccer gurus. Many have little more than gym degrees and are recruited by the clubs for their cost effectiveness. A smiling and perky college player would do just as well.
          A smiling perky college player, while looking for beer money, often doesn't have the time to coach due to schedules, especially in the fall. Many aren't much better than the gym degreed foreigners either and their tenure tends to be short lived. A lot of clubs defer to the agencies because it's EASY; it isn't easy to constantly be looking for new coaches and if issues arise or a coach leaves you just pick up the phone. DOCs can be lazy.

          But attitude and enthusiasm does matter - engaging kids makes them want to learn and work hard.

          Comment


            #35
            Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
            I've been making that point on T-S for almost 20 years. The most intelligent, skillful U.S. players I've coached and watched all played a ton of pickup, typically with guys from other soccer crazed countries.

            These smart players are at a disadvantage when in a typical US tryout situation. First, few others play a patient, probing style. Can't play this way alone. Second, evaluators often favor physicality over intelligence. Smart players are viewed as "soft".

            I advise kids to run fast, pump their arms, tackle hard, and show "effort" if they want to be selected. If they concentrate on these aspects, which don't come automatically to those that play a cerebral, skills based game, the quick give and go's, runs off the ball, and navigating small spaces which come naturally will still show thru and they usually stand out. No amount of skill can compensate if you don't show you can run fast, jump high, and tackle hard.
            This argument is often cited. Its rubbish. Yes there are cerebral players who appear to put in no effort, but honestly not many. To suggest its one OR the other is a cop out. Any kid playing a ton of pick up games will be selected on pick up teams for their physical output AND skill. No one picks the kid who is not effective and very few players are effective without some physical output.

            Comment


              #36
              Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
              Where else are we to play against quality competition? Just play games against the same teams you play over and over again?

              As for other successful soccer Nations, who is as spread out as the US is that has this geographic problem? Brazil?
              Play boys, girls, older ages etc. The games are there IF you want them. Its the US thirst for trophies etc that drives people to look further afield. Its not for competition alone, its for the kudos attached to it.

              Comment


                #37
                Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                Play boys, girls, older ages etc. The games are there IF you want them. Its the US thirst for trophies etc that drives people to look further afield. Its not for competition alone, its for the kudos attached to it.
                No thanks. Bad enough as it is playing in a Stars tournament and there's two dozen Stars teams in it. Familiarity breeds contempt.

                I'd rather see how we stack up as we get out into world and see what else is out there.

                Comment


                  #38
                  Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                  While the US might have unique elements in culture, geography, population relative to many other countries, "means nothing?" No.

                  If you want to shoot down the crowd that says simplistically, "This is what Iceland did, so let's copy them," then fine. But there is plenty to learn, adapt and deploy from other nations. Suggesting we're so "unique" that there's "nothing" has become the favorite straw man of everyone defending the status quo.
                  Agreed there are many things that can be learned from all over the world. USSF is trying to cookie cutter A pretty rigid European system onto the US. We are not Europe. But with some creativity and flexibility perhaps we could create a system that works better HERE, not there.

                  Comment


                    #39
                    Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                    No thanks. Bad enough as it is playing in a Stars tournament and there's two dozen Stars teams in it. Familiarity breeds contempt.

                    I'd rather see how we stack up as we get out into world and see what else is out there.
                    What is out there are talented range rover kids playing against other talented range rover kids.

                    Comment


                      #40
                      Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                      No thanks. Bad enough as it is playing in a Stars tournament and there's two dozen Stars teams in it. Familiarity breeds contempt.

                      I'd rather see how we stack up as we get out into world and see what else is out there.
                      Explain to me how traveling 1,000 miles and spending all the extra money associated with that helps you to guess, much less ensures, that the level competition that awaits you is beneficial? I look forward to your response.

                      Comment


                        #41
                        Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                        What is out there are talented range rover kids playing against other talented range rover kids.
                        We want to be the best range rover team of all!!!

                        Comment


                          #42
                          Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                          Explain to me how traveling 1,000 miles and spending all the extra money associated with that helps you to guess, much less ensures, that the level competition that awaits you is beneficial? I look forward to your response.
                          I guess you aren't cut from the same cloth. That's fine, takes all kinds to make the world go around. I won't judge.

                          I've read lots of comments about how we are soft, we don't compete, can't match up skill-wise. Not sure how we'd know if we are, unless we do. I supposed we could all just monitor GotSoccer and say "well we're in the top XX in the country, so we must be good".

                          For some...competing is fun. Learning to work hard and overcome adversity, to learn to put your ego aside and to work together is fun. It teach life lessons which will help as you enter the working world. I prefer candidates who have excelled in a team environment (but do not eliminate others) when hiring.

                          Can there be a guarantee there is competition when you get there? Of course not. But, that's up to your club to ensure it. Lots of these "Cups" (Richmond, Bethesda, Disney) have been around a long time and are huge. Can't imagine they would still be around if that weren't the case, but I suppose there are examples we haven't experienced yet.

                          Comment


                            #43
                            Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                            What is out there are talented range rover kids playing against other talented range rover kids.
                            Beat up Honda Odessey pushing 300k on it, but keep telling yourself that.

                            Comment


                              #44
                              Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                              This argument is often cited. Its rubbish. Yes there are cerebral players who appear to put in no effort, but honestly not many. To suggest its one OR the other is a cop out. Any kid playing a ton of pick up games will be selected on pick up teams for their physical output AND skill. No one picks the kid who is not effective and very few players are effective without some physical output.
                              I don't disagree with what you said, but as a parent of a "late bloomer" I think you might be misreading or misstating the argument a bit. Before 11v11 my daughter was never a top team pick, always by-passed. Not anymore. With a crazy growth spurt behind her, speed and coordination followed. I never saw it coming, but I'm glad she never stopped learning and loving to play the game. What I've seen is that our system is built to write kids off too much and too soon. It's worse than those kids get garbage training, etc. They get an experience where they give up on the game. Our system should be about developing the broadest base of talent, giving as much opportunity to be challenged, etc. Simple fact is that in our pay-to-play, chasing tournament trophies, because winning sells much better than player development, we don't have anything close to that. There's simply no perceived financial or status reward for all the clubs' talk of player development, to invest the time and money and patience in less than the biggest, strongest and fastest.

                              Comment


                                #45
                                Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                                Can there be a guarantee there is competition when you get there? Of course not.

                                But, that's up to your club to ensure it.

                                Lots of these "Cups" (Richmond, Bethesda, Disney) have been around a long time and are huge. Can't imagine they would still be around if that weren't the case, but I suppose there are examples we haven't experienced yet.
                                Blah blah blah.

                                Thanks for answering.

                                LOL.

                                LOLOLOLOL.

                                Comment

                                Previously entered content was automatically saved. Restore or Discard.
                                Auto-Saved
                                x
                                Insert: Thumbnail Small Medium Large Fullsize Remove  
                                x
                                Working...
                                X