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    #16
    Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
    I agree with others that it's unlikely the NCAA would allow full year. And really, if it's full year with the current coaching and often times lousy competition what good is it doing top players? College is high school amplified 100 times. Until college can be like it is for the NFL or NBA (will it ever be?) they should be either in the MLS or abroad if good enough,
    College soccer will never be like College is for Football and Basketball because soccer is a global sport and college soccer will never have a monopoly on soccer players in the same way. The NCAA is simply an unfunded farm system for the NBA and NFL.

    So yes, MLS or abroad it is but the MLS still needs to model itself more on European leagues and allow pro clubs develop our soccer youth. We need either promotion/relegation or an established tiered league structure that offers a player pathway.

    On top of it, the game needs to be popular enough to generate profits that can be turned into developing the club.

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      #17
      Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
      an answer.
      What if there was created a college conference, possibly with regional focus, that catered specifically to the top flight soccer players in the country. They would offer the best coaching and development with national team intent or professional possibility a focus, much like the basketball and football powerhouses, which are not much more than pathways, but still offer education to those interested.
      Say 15-20 schools, for example. Duke, Louisville, USC, Alabama and others, including a range of academic standard. Instead of diffusing the talent throughout the country on differing levels of play, the elite player would choose or be chosen (recruited) to play at one of these institutions, with summer training for nat'l team opportunity and truly professional coaching.
      Try to run them like the football and basketball programs that make no excuses for being anything other than minor league professional systems.

      Maybe leave Pitino out of it, though...
      The answer is actually much simpler than some of you see. If you are that level player, you basically do what Lindsey Horan did and then enroll in one of the many fine European universities part time and pay for the significantly cheaper tuition out of pocket.

      Comment


        #18
        Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
        You are still asking a 18-22 year old kid to be a full time student and a part-time soccer player in comparison to the full-time soccer player across the ocean.

        College sports has a near monopoly on Pro football and basketball players but soccer is not that way.

        Baseball and Hockey are the closest thing to a professional development model to world soccer as we've got. College football and basketball only "work" because that is where 99% of the players are.
        The central issue is the overseas kids are basically in a pro type of environment from about the age of 15-16 and that is point at which we start falling behind. What they do is akin to a vocational education not all that dissimilar to how we train our future electricians, plumbers, chefs and hairdressers. You could easily develop that in this country by paying some charter schools (or private schools) in different parts of the country to host the program. Much cheaper than what they are doing now. Once kids advance to full national team potential you ship them overseas.

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          #19
          Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
          The central issue is the overseas kids are basically in a pro type of environment from about the age of 15-16 and that is point at which we start falling behind. What they do is akin to a vocational education not all that dissimilar to how we train our future electricians, plumbers, chefs and hairdressers. You could easily develop that in this country by paying some charter schools (or private schools) in different parts of the country to host the program. Much cheaper than what they are doing now. Once kids advance to full national team potential you ship them overseas.
          A few MLS clubs are starting residency programs. Best bet is to hook up with a solid academic institution to calm parental qualms about a quality education rather than run it themselves. They still are students first and foremost, but being together means more time practicing together and more importantly that they can reach far more potential studs outside geographic constraints.

          Comment


            #20
            Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
            A few MLS clubs are starting residency programs. Best bet is to hook up with a solid academic institution to calm parental qualms about a quality education rather than run it themselves. They still are students first and foremost, but being together means more time practicing together and more importantly that they can reach far more potential studs outside geographic constraints.
            Is soccer the only sport where a collegiate education matters?
            Are the hoops players at UConn, Kentucky, et al worried about their degrees?
            If so, no wonder soccer families are accused of being well-off. (Not sure when that became a bad thing)

            Comment


              #21
              Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
              Is soccer the only sport where a collegiate education matters?
              Are the hoops players at UConn, Kentucky, et al worried about their degrees?
              If so, no wonder soccer families are accused of being well-off. (Not sure when that became a bad thing)
              - MLS salaries are a joke compared to the big 3 US sports. Much bigger risk walking away from a scholarship with little reward.
              - Soccer tends to be a middle to upper income sport and families do tend to be more academically focused, looking at the big picture
              - Because of the vast sums of money made by schools for the big sports they are much more willing to bend academic standards for studs. Much less so in soccer
              - College hoops and football are basically farm teams for the NBA and NFL. They watch how players develop over a few years at no cost to them, then pick them up at draft time.
              - College coaching for NFL and NBA is vastly superior to soccer coaching. college soccer is simply high school soccer (win at all costs) and a developmental dead end
              - NBA and NFL players aren't competing internationally against players who spend their years 18-22 playing professionally

              Comment


                #22
                Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                College soccer will never be like College is for Football and Basketball because soccer is a global sport and college soccer will never have a monopoly on soccer players in the same way. The NCAA is simply an unfunded farm system for the NBA and NFL.

                So yes, MLS or abroad it is but the MLS still needs to model itself more on European leagues and allow pro clubs develop our soccer youth. We need either promotion/relegation or an established tiered league structure that offers a player pathway.

                On top of it, the game needs to be popular enough to generate profits that can be turned into developing the club.
                This: "popular enough to generate profits"

                I feel like many of the posts in this thread (on TS) assume the end game is producing great soccer players. I wish that were true, but it's simply not. The end game is revenue. Producing great players is a means to that end. The Intl clubs can invest in developing players, because there are big payoffs when they do so. Those investment have returns.

                This could happen for US soccer, but the US ecosystem is still developing. There is still very little money at the top in US Soccer. If there were, the Krafts would have figured it out. The money is all at the bottom, the source is parents. Our end-game is not pro soccer, but short-term health, social involvement, and college aspirations.

                The system is a reflection of the market, so if you want to blame someone for the horrible system in the US, go flog yourself.

                Comment


                  #23
                  Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                  This: "popular enough to generate profits"

                  I feel like many of the posts in this thread (on TS) assume the end game is producing great soccer players. I wish that were true, but it's simply not. The end game is revenue. Producing great players is a means to that end. The Intl clubs can invest in developing players, because there are big payoffs when they do so. Those investment have returns.

                  This could happen for US soccer, but the US ecosystem is still developing. There is still very little money at the top in US Soccer. If there were, the Krafts would have figured it out. The money is all at the bottom, the source is parents. Our end-game is not pro soccer, but short-term health, social involvement, and college aspirations.

                  The system is a reflection of the market, so if you want to blame someone for the horrible system in the US, go flog yourself.
                  Agree and it was one of my points regarding the argument that the GDA is diluted. If you think it is then feel free to pull your kid out of the program.

                  The sport in general just does not have enough mass market appeal and our laws and economics do not allow us to model some of the European ways. Again, we could institute Promotion/Relegation and allow owners to buy in for a low price and then invest and grow their club in hopes of getting into the MLS.

                  Remove the MLS draft. This would put an emphasis on the Clubs to actually invest in and develop their players versus using College in the way that the NFL and NBA does.

                  Comment


                    #24
                    Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                    - MLS salaries are a joke compared to the big 3 US sports. Much bigger risk walking away from a scholarship with little reward.
                    - Soccer tends to be a middle to upper income sport and families do tend to be more academically focused, looking at the big picture
                    - Because of the vast sums of money made by schools for the big sports they are much more willing to bend academic standards for studs. Much less so in soccer
                    - College hoops and football are basically farm teams for the NBA and NFL. They watch how players develop over a few years at no cost to them, then pick them up at draft time.
                    - College coaching for NFL and NBA is vastly superior to soccer coaching. college soccer is simply high school soccer (win at all costs) and a developmental dead end
                    - NBA and NFL players aren't competing internationally against players who spend their years 18-22 playing professionally
                    This guy is a clueless idiot. Plain and simple. It's useless having a discussion with him because he flatly rejects the notion that anyone might still want to become a professional soccer player even though they don't make the sort of money made in other sports or in soccer in other parts of the globe. All he ever can see is that some soccer prospect won't be able to attend some NESCAC and go on to be a doctor or a lawyer. He never bothers to consider that not everyone is even interested in something like law, medicine or some STEM course of study, never mind that they all don't have the actual intellect to get into some the schools he has a major boner for in order to be able to go down the high brow educational path that he feels is so necessary to be considered a success in life by the snobs like him. He literally has no idea what so ever what big time sports are like, never mind what is available in big time college soccer for a kid with enough talent to get there. Just ignore the clown.

                    Comment


                      #25
                      Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                      This: "popular enough to generate profits"

                      I feel like many of the posts in this thread (on TS) assume the end game is producing great soccer players. I wish that were true, but it's simply not. The end game is revenue. Producing great players is a means to that end. The Intl clubs can invest in developing players, because there are big payoffs when they do so. Those investment have returns.

                      This could happen for US soccer, but the US ecosystem is still developing. There is still very little money at the top in US Soccer. If there were, the Krafts would have figured it out. The money is all at the bottom, the source is parents. Our end-game is not pro soccer, but short-term health, social involvement, and college aspirations.

                      The system is a reflection of the market, so if you want to blame someone for the horrible system in the US, go flog yourself.
                      Where you are mistaken is your basic assumption seems to be that we need to manufacture soccer players and must have some big soccer infrastructure to do it in. World class soccer players are born and nurtured, not manufactured. When ever you try to mass manufacture anything all you end up with exact little clones that fit someone's idea of a mold. In the world of sports when you try to manufacture players what you end up is robotic unimaginative players that inevitably poorly assimilate some group's idea of the perfect player. The problem with that is the nature of competition is such that the game quickly adjusts and strips away any technical advantage any supposed perfect player might enjoy and so you are left with nothing more than their specific athletic gifts which can never really be duplicated. For example you might be able to teach the technical proficiency but can there ever really be another Messi? What they US needs to do is create a sensible ladder for interested players to climb. If they are good enough and determined enough they will get to the top if you let them. What we have in this country is a system that forces players into little boxes through age groupings and league affiliations and it keeps them there while we try to make sure that everyone got a fair shot at being as good as them. We end up boring our best and brightest and forcing them into other activities. Fix the upward mobility problem and you have all the system you need. The cream will always rise to the top.

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                        This guy is a clueless idiot. Plain and simple. It's useless having a discussion with him because he flatly rejects the notion that anyone might still want to become a professional soccer player even though they don't make the sort of money made in other sports or in soccer in other parts of the globe. All he ever can see is that some soccer prospect won't be able to attend some NESCAC and go on to be a doctor or a lawyer. He never bothers to consider that not everyone is even interested in something like law, medicine or some STEM course of study, never mind that they all don't have the actual intellect to get into some the schools he has a major boner for in order to be able to go down the high brow educational path that he feels is so necessary to be considered a success in life by the snobs like him. He literally has no idea what so ever what big time sports are like, never mind what is available in big time college soccer for a kid with enough talent to get there. Just ignore the clown.
                        Yeah, you're the expert. Expert clown that is.

                        Comment


                          #27
                          Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                          Yeah, you're the expert. Expert clown that is.
                          Oh please, while you are making your umpteenth post of the hour why not for once add something the least bit intelligent. Your audience here isn't your normal town soccer parent who thinks soccer ends after middle school.

                          Comment


                            #28
                            Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                            Oh please, while you are making your umpteenth post of the hour why not for once add something the least bit intelligent. Your audience here isn't your normal town soccer parent who thinks soccer ends after middle school.
                            The soccer universe would be far less cluttered with idiots if it did.
                            That may be the ultimate answer.

                            Comment


                              #29
                              Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                              The soccer universe would be far less cluttered with idiots if it did.
                              That may be the ultimate answer.
                              With coaches like that one setting the bar so everyone can climb over it, that's just what we need in club sports, a bunch of know nothing parents with no expectations other than what the clown club coaches tell them.

                              Comment


                                #30
                                Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                                This guy is a clueless idiot. Plain and simple. It's useless having a discussion with him because he flatly rejects the notion that anyone might still want to become a professional soccer player even though they don't make the sort of money made in other sports or in soccer in other parts of the globe. All he ever can see is that some soccer prospect won't be able to attend some NESCAC and go on to be a doctor or a lawyer. He never bothers to consider that not everyone is even interested in something like law, medicine or some STEM course of study, never mind that they all don't have the actual intellect to get into some the schools he has a major boner for in order to be able to go down the high brow educational path that he feels is so necessary to be considered a success in life by the snobs like him. He literally has no idea what so ever what big time sports are like, never mind what is available in big time college soccer for a kid with enough talent to get there. Just ignore the clown.
                                Very disappointing, BTNT. You really have melted down. No idea who you think you are responding to above. I would have never posted with that format. You are so friggin insecure. I stopped posting. You should do the same. Grab a life that has something more to it than your obsession here.

                                Comment

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