A Thoughtful Analysis of ECNL Recruitment

[Slow Xavi]

Someone else posted, but thought this was a sufficiently good analysis of ECNL and college recruitment that it merited its own thread.

Here is the analysis.

I appreciated his tone, that he documented his methodology, reflected on his own experience (dd was not an ECNL product), and that he welcomed commentary.

Defer to the most quantitatively oriented to assess his methodology.

[Unregistered]

I looked at the Google spreadsheet which lists players, clubs and schools attending for the class of 2015 by ECNL club. Sure, there are a lot of Pac 12 schools listed. There are also a huge number of University of Saint Francis, Aurora University, Wingate University and Mount Vernon Nazarene University, listed. All fine choices for those involved, but probably didn't need the time, expense and travel that ECNL commanded to get those offers.

[Unregistered]

I looked at the Google spreadsheet which lists players, clubs and schools attending for the class of 2015 by ECNL club. Sure, there are a lot of Pac 12 schools listed. There are also a huge number of University of Saint Francis, Aurora University, Wingate University and Mount Vernon Nazarene University, listed. All fine choices for those involved, but probably didn't need the time, expense and travel that ECNL commanded to get those offers.

The spreadsheet is not just ECNL. Even in ECNL, only a handful on each team will go to top schools, with a few exceptions like So Cal Blues or SD Surf. And there is no way to assess if they would of had those options without it, or know if it was their dream school, or the only option with their major. You also cannot know what other options were but chose based on where they wanted to live, want to study, final out of pocket. I think the valuable part of the analysis is two fold:

1. Girls not playing ECNL are still getting recruited
2. More kids from ECNL go to top programs PER club than non ECNL clubs

There is still a chicken vs the egg dilemma. In most markets the top girls choose ECNL, rather they are already the top talent. If you are not a top talent, ECNL will not make you one. But whatever level you are, it might give you better exposure to find the best fit for you.

[Unregistered]

The spreadsheet is not just ECNL. Even in ECNL, only a handful on each team will go to top schools, with a few exceptions like So Cal Blues or SD Surf. And there is no way to assess if they would of had those options without it, or know if it was their dream school, or the only option with their major. You also cannot know what other options were but chose based on where they wanted to live, want to study, final out of pocket. I think the valuable part of the analysis is two fold:

1. Girls not playing ECNL are still getting recruited
2. More kids from ECNL go to top programs PER club than non ECNL clubs

There is still a chicken vs the egg dilemma. In most markets the top girls choose ECNL, rather they are already the top talent. If you are not a top talent, ECNL will not make you one. But whatever level you are, it might give you better exposure to find the best fit for you.

I think for the newer ECNL clubs it's a true statement, ECNL will not make you a better player than you already have the potential of being.

That being said, I have seem first hand horrible players who have been pulled in to have 11 players still be as terrible as they were before, top level players struggling through frustrations because their teammates can't keep up and a couple players who have joined & grown quickly in skill & speed of play.

So agreed that for the older girls they are what they are & if the talent is there just never tapped due to playing lower level soccer at clubs/teams not coaching properly.

However, 3-4 years down the road our ECNL girls playing U-14 this year will benefit from ECNL over the current clubs out there. The clubs who have been involved from the creation of ECNL can say that they are developing & sending their girls off to college.

The question of travel & expense isn't really any different than what my dd has been doing with her club team the last 3 years. The only extra cost was the extra $300-400 got club fees.

[Unregistered]

Possible ways to consider.

Someone else posted, but thought this was a sufficiently good analysis of ECNL and college recruitment that it merited its own thread.

Here is the analysis.

I appreciated his tone, that he documented his methodology, reflected on his own experience (dd was not an ECNL product), and that he welcomed commentary.

Defer to the most quantitatively oriented to assess his methodology.

The person did a great deal of work and it is appreciated. ENCL has expanded so quickly, from 40 teams in 2009-10 to 76 in 2014-15 with a decision to limit membership in the last two years or so. Every year from the current in the future will give us real information for consideration. Obviously, many clubs haven't had encl exposure until just recently for recruiting analysis purposes.

I believe that the Top 50 in RPI should be a basis for comparison. The Top 50 RPI colleges usually get invited to the national championship play-offs. The balance to the field of 64 are colleges that won their conference for the season. This requires more work and it probably could be crowd-sourced quite easily.

Prior to the last couple of years, many, many local women players went to top 50 D-1 programs without any encl affiliation by their club. It does appear that things are changing.

[lastplanet]

Hi Slow Xavi, I'm not usually on talking-soccer but saw your post while putting up a notice on updated LP Rankings.

I like the D1 soccer recruiting site and have been reading that as my youngest (who might play in college) is entering HS shortly. But I'm struck that we never talk about D3 schools, but rather seem fixated on D1 scholarships. I recently came back from a big college tour of D3 schools (for eldest). It stuck me that if you have a kid who is a stellar student and has a chance to get into a top liberal arts school, then that's the way to get your education paid for you. A lot of the schools we visited were 'need blind' and cover 100% of need via grants all 4 years for any admitted student---kicker is you have to get in. But athletics at these schools is BIG. Like 30% of students were on a varsity team and getting recruited can be your ticket to get in (assuming your academics are up to snuff).

Nobody ever talks about this. It's all D1, D1, D1. And nobody talks about these D3 schools with massive endowments. Visiting small schools was a big eye-opener for me and kind of made me rethink college recruitment and that playing for a small school could be much better financially.

[Unregistered]

However, 3-4 years down the road our ECNL girls playing U-14 this year will benefit from ECNL over the current clubs out there. The clubs who have been involved from the creation of ECNL can say that they are developing & sending their girls off to college.

It may make them better players, but it won't make them better athletes. They are who they are, regardless of age. No amount of ECNL is going to make a terrible athlete a great soccer player. It might make them a better soccer player than they might have been without it, but it won't turn players into gold. It's just like going out for track. Track will make you faster. But it won't necessarily make you fast. We just don't have 20, much less 36 or more premier level athletes in soccer here. That is why for many parents, it will be spending a lot of money for futility.

[Unregistered]

It may make them better players, but it won't make them better athletes. They are who they are, regardless of age. No amount of ECNL is going to make a terrible athlete a great soccer player. It might make them a better soccer player than they might have been without it, but it won't turn players into gold. It's just like going out for track. Track will make you faster. But it won't necessarily make you fast. We just don't have 20, much less 36 or more premier level athletes in soccer here. That is why for many parents, it will be spending a lot of money for futility.

Your pretty much summing up what I was saying & I do strongly agree in Oregon we do not have 30+ players divided between 2 teams capable of truely being competive in ECNL. Take the top 22 players on 1 team & we could compete.

But there are 2 teams & until 1 of the club becomes the dominate one & all the good players go there we will never truely be Elite.

[Unregistered]

Your pretty much summing up what I was saying & I do strongly agree in Oregon we do not have 30+ players divided between 2 teams capable of truely being competive in ECNL. Take the top 22 players on 1 team & we could compete.

But there are 2 teams & until 1 of the club becomes the dominate one & all the good players go there we will never truely be Elite.

I think it will be interesting to watch the next few years as the youngest age group gets into the recruiting ages and see if the best talent ends up on ECNL and on which team.

It is crazy to expect the first year to be amazing. Crossfire and Washington Premier struggled the first year except for at a few already strong age groups. It will take time to shake things out in Portland too.

[Unregistered]

Hi Slow Xavi, I'm not usually on talking-soccer but saw your post while putting up a notice on updated LP Rankings.

I like the D1 soccer recruiting site and have been reading that as my youngest (who might play in college) is entering HS shortly. But I'm struck that we never talk about D3 schools, but rather seem fixated on D1 scholarships. I recently came back from a big college tour of D3 schools (for eldest). It stuck me that if you have a kid who is a stellar student and has a chance to get into a top liberal arts school, then that's the way to get your education paid for you. A lot of the schools we visited were 'need blind' and cover 100% of need via grants all 4 years for any admitted student---kicker is you have to get in. But athletics at these schools is BIG. Like 30% of students were on a varsity team and getting recruited can be your ticket to get in (assuming your academics are up to snuff).

Nobody ever talks about this. It's all D1, D1, D1. And nobody talks about these D3 schools with massive endowments. Visiting small schools was a big eye-opener for me and kind of made me rethink college recruitment and that playing for a small school could be much better financially.

There are also other options people usually don't talk about, and it is also a different recruiting process because of the quality of the schools and that is D1 and other top schools, like in the Patriot League. Coaches can express interest but you need to have the SAT or ACT scores to get in, but to your point, it can be a lower standard than general admission, still tough though

[Unregistered]

I think for the newer ECNL clubs it's a true statement, ECNL will not make you a better player than you already have the potential of being.

That being said, I have seem first hand horrible players who have been pulled in to have 11 players still be as terrible as they were before, top level players struggling through frustrations because their teammates can't keep up and a couple players who have joined & grown quickly in skill & speed of play.

So agreed that for the older girls they are what they are & if the talent is there just never tapped due to playing lower level soccer at clubs/teams not coaching properly.

However, 3-4 years down the road our ECNL girls playing U-14 this year will benefit from ECNL over the current clubs out there. The clubs who have been involved from the creation of ECNL can say that they are developing & sending their girls off to college.

The question of travel & expense isn't really any different than what my dd has been doing with her club team the last 3 years. The only extra cost was the extra $300-400 got club fees.

3-4 years of ECNL and you will be broke for college. In that case a scholarship is mandatory.

[Unregistered]

3-4 years of ECNL and you will be broke for college. In that case a scholarship is mandatory.

I think the point of the poster was they were already spending the money to travel. I know that was true for us.

It just depends if the team and your daughter get enough out of playing local teams. Many kids do, not judging. But for those traveling anyway, and trying to get exposure by traveling, the cost is still there. This is how many girls got recruited in the past was being on travel teams and also doing ODP, which at the older groups is now our Thorns Academy. Still not free, but less than the same age group ECNL.

Coaches are looking for kids that can play against strong teams, unfortunately if you are not in ECNL or at least traveling to showcases (which cost money), then there is no tough competition.

[Unregistered]

I think the point of the poster was they were already spending the money to travel. I know that was true for us.

It just depends if the team and your daughter get enough out of playing local teams. Many kids do, not judging. But for those traveling anyway, and trying to get exposure by traveling, the cost is still there. This is how many girls got recruited in the past was being on travel teams and also doing ODP, which at the older groups is now our Thorns Academy. Still not free, but less than the same age group ECNL.

Coaches are looking for kids that can play against strong teams, unfortunately if you are not in ECNL or at least traveling to showcases (which cost money), then there is no tough competition.

Maybe so, but my point was that 4 years of ECNL would make you broke for college. So you best be getting a scholarship out of it.

[Unregistered]

If a good regular club travel team costs about the same, then those players better be getting a scholarship out of it too. Bottom line is elite soccer for girls is very expensive in this country!

[Slow Xavi]

Hi Slow Xavi, I'm not usually on talking-soccer but saw your post while putting up a notice on updated LP Rankings.

I like the D1 soccer recruiting site and have been reading that as my youngest (who might play in college) is entering HS shortly. But I'm struck that we never talk about D3 schools, but rather seem fixated on D1 scholarships. I recently came back from a big college tour of D3 schools (for eldest). It stuck me that if you have a kid who is a stellar student and has a chance to get into a top liberal arts school, then that's the way to get your education paid for you. A lot of the schools we visited were 'need blind' and cover 100% of need via grants all 4 years for any admitted student---kicker is you have to get in. But athletics at these schools is BIG. Like 30% of students were on a varsity team and getting recruited can be your ticket get in (assuming your academics are up to snuff).

Nobody ever talks about this. It's all D1, D1, D1. And nobody talks about these D3 schools with massive endowments. Visiting small schools was a big eye-opener for me and kind of made me rethink college recruitment and that playing for a small school could be much better financially.

Thank you LP for all the work you do on your ratings. I review them regularly and have wondered if our club should tie some self-assessment to performance in those rankings.

I couldn't agree more on the fixation with D1 in terms of choices (theirs/ours in terms of ways we might steer them) for our own daughters. As several other posters have argued on here, in terms of a quality educational experience, very hard to argue with dIII.

You are taking the point further - in assessing the financial return on an ECNL (or other travel team investments), D1 scholarships is just one piece; using soccer to get into and then leveraging for substantial scholarship money at an Amherst or Williams is a huge. Wonder how that could be tracked comprehensively?