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    Club Soccer will produce better players

    It's a naive belief to think that the USSDA system is truly producing great players and before you write that off and go back to worshipping the system (simply because you are in it), think about what actually developed your child into the player he is today. Your kid once played for a small club team and benefitted from playing under a great young coach. A coach unattached to the US Soccer system and was totally invested in your child. A coach that never followed a blueprint or play style sent by higher ups, just a genuine teacher of the game. Your kid benefits the MOST from coaches like that, they learn more, they train more and develop a love for the game. They focus on creativity, basics and fun. That sort of environment still exist in today's club soccer. And that's the reason why club soccer will continue to and always be the best at developing players for the next level.

    I have been out of country and shadowed some great coaches in places like Hungary, Switzerland and recently Chile. I also had a playing career at a D1 school in Virginia. I'm not saying that everything the USSDA system is doing is bad, but it isn't going to help the US progress. If you have watched a USSDA program train for a couple weeks you realize that they practice the same old things for days straight. When do they learn something new? When do they explore a different formation? When do they work on taking players 1 on 1 or creativity? It's just different passing sequences that improve nothing. In other countries, the ability to beat players 1 on 1 with actual skill and not pace is crucial. Every player on the field should be able to do it, maybe even your goalkeeper! In Club soccer, the games are more free flowing, there is less stress put on the players to just keep the ball and there is more room for creativity. That's why you see a player like Jordan Morris who is super ambitious. He played Academy soccer for 1 year, and he is the only player in his age group consistently being apart of the US national team lineup. Before that he played club soccer until he joined Seattle Sounders for 1 year. Did Seattle make him into the player he is today? In one year? Or was it the 17 he spent playing club soccer, improving his ability through free flowing play.

    Also notice that people who were once really good become average when they join the academy because they are thrown into a system that doesn't facilitate creative play. Watch an academy game and you realize how hard it is to tell which players are actually good and not good because they can 1 and 2 touch side to side. In a club game it is very easy to tell who is a real player and can make a difference. Half of the players in the youth national team fold had no business playing academy anyways, until they were practically forced to join one by the national team coaches in order to keep getting call ups.

    People are so caught up in trying to get showcased for the national team when they should know it's all politics. There isn't even reasons why some kids aren't on the national team. There are kids right here in florida that have scored 25-30 goals against "the best the US has to offer" and aren't even invited to a camp.

    I grew up in Jamaica and represented them at the youth levels and we always beat or played a close game against the US. And if you watched the U17 Qualifying you could see the same closeness between the countries. Besides the fact that Jamaica is way smaller then the US, let's look at the fact that Jamaica has no type of USSDA system. There are not even that many clubs there. The US also had the opportunity to take many of the players that ended up playing for Jamaica and they came back and almost knocked them out of the competition.

    #2
    Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
    It's a naive belief to think that the USSDA system is truly producing great players and before you write that off and go back to worshipping the system (simply because you are in it), think about what actually developed your child into the player he is today. Your kid once played for a small club team and benefitted from playing under a great young coach. A coach unattached to the US Soccer system and was totally invested in your child. A coach that never followed a blueprint or play style sent by higher ups, just a genuine teacher of the game. Your kid benefits the MOST from coaches like that, they learn more, they train more and develop a love for the game. They focus on creativity, basics and fun. That sort of environment still exist in today's club soccer. And that's the reason why club soccer will continue to and always be the best at developing players for the next level.

    I have been out of country and shadowed some great coaches in places like Hungary, Switzerland and recently Chile. I also had a playing career at a D1 school in Virginia. I'm not saying that everything the USSDA system is doing is bad, but it isn't going to help the US progress. If you have watched a USSDA program train for a couple weeks you realize that they practice the same old things for days straight. When do they learn something new? When do they explore a different formation? When do they work on taking players 1 on 1 or creativity? It's just different passing sequences that improve nothing. In other countries, the ability to beat players 1 on 1 with actual skill and not pace is crucial. Every player on the field should be able to do it, maybe even your goalkeeper! In Club soccer, the games are more free flowing, there is less stress put on the players to just keep the ball and there is more room for creativity. That's why you see a player like Jordan Morris who is super ambitious. He played Academy soccer for 1 year, and he is the only player in his age group consistently being apart of the US national team lineup. Before that he played club soccer until he joined Seattle Sounders for 1 year. Did Seattle make him into the player he is today? In one year? Or was it the 17 he spent playing club soccer, improving his ability through free flowing play.

    Also notice that people who were once really good become average when they join the academy because they are thrown into a system that doesn't facilitate creative play. Watch an academy game and you realize how hard it is to tell which players are actually good and not good because they can 1 and 2 touch side to side. In a club game it is very easy to tell who is a real player and can make a difference. Half of the players in the youth national team fold had no business playing academy anyways, until they were practically forced to join one by the national team coaches in order to keep getting call ups.

    People are so caught up in trying to get showcased for the national team when they should know it's all politics. There isn't even reasons why some kids aren't on the national team. There are kids right here in florida that have scored 25-30 goals against "the best the US has to offer" and aren't even invited to a camp.

    I grew up in Jamaica and represented them at the youth levels and we always beat or played a close game against the US. And if you watched the U17 Qualifying you could see the same closeness between the countries. Besides the fact that Jamaica is way smaller then the US, let's look at the fact that Jamaica has no type of USSDA system. There are not even that many clubs there. The US also had the opportunity to take many of the players that ended up playing for Jamaica and they came back and almost knocked them out of the competition.
    I agree and will throw an additional criticism: the 2 year structure. Every year the team is composed of Senior year players and a few Junior year players (I use the Senior/Junior to denote the academy age group, not High School years). If a player is not selected in his Junior year, he goes back to club, then comes back to DA for his Senior year.

    Also, the DA is set up for the advancement and placement of 4-5 players to the National Team. Everyone else on the team is a bit player in a political soap opera, supporting the "stars" so they can be selected.

    The rosters are also quite big, and a "guarantee" of starting 25% of the games is meaningless- could mean 5 minutes of play or 80 minutes.

    Be prepared for the canned responses:

    1. ALL the "elite" players are in DA (not even remotely true)
    2. You are just the daddy of a player rejected for DA
    3. ALL the scouting and soccer scholarships are given to DA players.
    4. Blah
    5. Blah
    6. Blah

    Yet, you see the results, the US with it's huge population and number of players cannot excel at the International Level. Joey Altidore often has feet of stone and our defense is suspect (because defense is not glorious and valued within the DA/ODP/US Soccer system.

    Comment


      #3
      Before the hate emails come, just writing to say that you are right and it is nice to hear someone with true experience here. Especially about the lack of creativity in DA - not all are the same but some are training "winning systems " rather then skill and creativity.

      And most parents players have never seen anything different so don't know what they are missing.

      Our son trains with multiple kids who have quit academy in the U.S. ( or are looking for other state academy's maybe moving to do this) because they were experienced in overseas academies and felt game going backwards here.

      Our own kid is now about college age and looking back most everything high level was learned outside club - and playing futsal etc.

      He is going to academy overseas soon and training/Id in the top soccer countries was totally different - skill intelligence and creativity very important. Being top athlete great too but not enough ( and that is the easiest part to train over years - skill is the harder to train and what looked for first).

      I watched a visiting group of 16 year old us academy level kids visiting a pro academy overseas lose in a friendly to 14 year old team by multiple goals , they made the ball do the work and dominated our "elite" kids easily

      Ussda recognizes this and continually tells da clubs to search for skill/intelligence not just most mature runners ( not saying this isn't a great talent but not the only thing to consider). However the reality is that most da teams chasing trophies too ( win today, direct style, keep it simple, don't try anything to get better individually) as this brings in more players and paying parents for the broader non da part of the club - sad

      Overseas they are developing players over many years to sell later, including kids with skills but not totally man kids yet. Very different. How many da players going pro around the world - or even mls ? The whole sytem , though better then it used to be needs revampin to create intenational level players. Right now it is only the few kids in residency that get close to the true academy experience. Rest are still being trained to be decent college "system" players that's it.

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
        It's a naive belief to think that the USSDA system is truly producing great players and before you write that off and go back to worshipping the system (simply because you are in it), think about what actually developed your child into the player he is today. Your kid once played for a small club team and benefitted from playing under a great young coach. A coach unattached to the US Soccer system and was totally invested in your child. A coach that never followed a blueprint or play style sent by higher ups, just a genuine teacher of the game. Your kid benefits the MOST from coaches like that, they learn more, they train more and develop a love for the game. They focus on creativity, basics and fun. That sort of environment still exist in today's club soccer. And that's the reason why club soccer will continue to and always be the best at developing players for the next level.

        I have been out of country and shadowed some great coaches in places like Hungary, Switzerland and recently Chile. I also had a playing career at a D1 school in Virginia. I'm not saying that everything the USSDA system is doing is bad, but it isn't going to help the US progress. If you have watched a USSDA program train for a couple weeks you realize that they practice the same old things for days straight. When do they learn something new? When do they explore a different formation? When do they work on taking players 1 on 1 or creativity? It's just different passing sequences that improve nothing. In other countries, the ability to beat players 1 on 1 with actual skill and not pace is crucial. Every player on the field should be able to do it, maybe even your goalkeeper! In Club soccer, the games are more free flowing, there is less stress put on the players to just keep the ball and there is more room for creativity. That's why you see a player like Jordan Morris who is super ambitious. He played Academy soccer for 1 year, and he is the only player in his age group consistently being apart of the US national team lineup. Before that he played club soccer until he joined Seattle Sounders for 1 year. Did Seattle make him into the player he is today? In one year? Or was it the 17 he spent playing club soccer, improving his ability through free flowing play.

        Also notice that people who were once really good become average when they join the academy because they are thrown into a system that doesn't facilitate creative play. Watch an academy game and you realize how hard it is to tell which players are actually good and not good because they can 1 and 2 touch side to side. In a club game it is very easy to tell who is a real player and can make a difference. Half of the players in the youth national team fold had no business playing academy anyways, until they were practically forced to join one by the national team coaches in order to keep getting call ups.

        People are so caught up in trying to get showcased for the national team when they should know it's all politics. There isn't even reasons why some kids aren't on the national team. There are kids right here in florida that have scored 25-30 goals against "the best the US has to offer" and aren't even invited to a camp.

        I grew up in Jamaica and represented them at the youth levels and we always beat or played a close game against the US. And if you watched the U17 Qualifying you could see the same closeness between the countries. Besides the fact that Jamaica is way smaller then the US, let's look at the fact that Jamaica has no type of USSDA system. There are not even that many clubs there. The US also had the opportunity to take many of the players that ended up playing for Jamaica and they came back and almost knocked them out of the competition.
        I agree with most of what you say. Watching USDA teams play, what becomes obvious is that these kids are very athletic and they are not bed technically. Their attitude is also good. However, they work and fight instead of playing. This is a game and it must be played. If you understand the difference you will be half way through agreeing with me. Playing requires joy, creativity, having fun beating opponents and generally being in the 'flow.' These are the components that are missing from USDA play and mostly from the USNTs play, as well. US Soccer needs to understand that this game cannot be played by following a centralized and mostly flawed ideology that is represented by the U.S. Soccer Curriculum, authored by Dr. Javier Perez and not Claudio Reyna as most believe. Reyna`s name is on it as director, not author.

        This curriculum starts with the following sentence: "All teams will be encouraged to display an offensive style of play based on keeping possession and quick movement of the ball". Restricting youth player development to one and only one style of play is, to say the least, highly questionable and not supported by any evidence in the pedagogy literature. This statement is followed by a lot of others that are simply inaccurate. For example, "All formations used by the teams in 11-a-side games must keep a back 4 line. The back 4 provides consistency in defense and allows space for the outside backs to move forward when attacking". Prescribing a formation to be used by all teams; formation, that is a structure of the team and highly dependent on the individual qualities of each player on the field; is not supported by any evidence, scientific, or observational and proves the general lack of knowledge among US Soccer leadership. Many teams use three central backs in order to facilitate full-backs to play as wing-backs and move forward.

        We need competition between different ideas and not a rigid, centralized, indoctrination based dictatorship that is US Soccer today.

        Comment


          #5
          Gravitas

          Finally, a thread with gravitas on TS!

          Comment


            #6
            I agree with the OP. After seeing a bunch of DA games and going through the tryouts we decided to go to a top club team in the area. And yes, the playing time is limited as the rosters are big. And no need to repeat but most of the DA teams look like robots as they all play the same type of game dictated by the USSF. Talk about killing creativity....

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
              I agree with the OP. After seeing a bunch of DA games and going through the tryouts we decided to go to a top club team in the area. And yes, the playing time is limited as the rosters are big. And no need to repeat but most of the DA teams look like robots as they all play the same type of game dictated by the USSF. Talk about killing creativity....
              I think the OP makes several credible points, however, I have always been a believer that the cream will rise to the top....If you are talented and work the hardest...you can get there via DA or Club or College even. The US is making strides but there is no "silver bullet" perfect system that will set us on an Elite path....I think it is getting the best athletes (or a much larger portion of the best athletes passionate about the game from the start)...kids that grow up playing and loving the game from their earliest memories. It is no secret that in Most (nearly all) Soccer elite countries that soccer/futbol is THE game...literally 95% of the very best athletes dream and work towards becoming the next great soccer player.

              I have definitely seen the US make strides here in the past 10-15 years....I believe this will begin to show itself over the next decade on the international stage. More and more kids are opting for soccer vs. football, basketball etc....as compared to 10-15 years ago....IMO its not even close. BTW, I am a big believer in Club....especially when you find the right coach...or group of coaches. They are the ones who teach skills and inspire your kids to be great!

              Comment


                #8
                The sad truth is that the US doesn't understand the sport of futbol (soccer) at all. One, because it is not like any other popular American sport where pure athleticism is an advantage. Or that a coach can simply run a play after play. Or call Timeout.

                Futbol is an art. If you compare how this country teaches a 7 year old to play, it is the total opposite on what they teach overseas. Here, a kid is taught to kick the ball as hard, and winning is everything. Encouraging cherry picking, and just let the best kid shoot over and over to the goal. There is nothing about individual creativity, beating an opponent with a dribble, or even a simple pass.

                Remember that the best player in the world is a tiny Argentine who is not even remotely considered athletic, or fast. But that concept is not accepted in American sports.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                  The sad truth is that the US doesn't understand the sport of futbol (soccer) at all. One, because it is not like any other popular American sport where pure athleticism is an advantage. Or that a coach can simply run a play after play. Or call Timeout.

                  Futbol is an art. If you compare how this country teaches a 7 year old to play, it is the total opposite on what they teach overseas. Here, a kid is taught to kick the ball as hard, and winning is everything. Encouraging cherry picking, and just let the best kid shoot over and over to the goal. There is nothing about individual creativity, beating an opponent with a dribble, or even a simple pass.

                  Remember that the best player in the world is a tiny Argentine who is not even remotely considered athletic, or fast. But that concept is not accepted in American sports.
                  I agree with your post. However 1 correction would be about messi- he is small but he is absolutely fast - and can dribble at virtually full speed. That said there are plenty of other players at pro level now that the U.S. Would not put in academy for sure they are too small or slower physically or not yet mature. Yes around the world skill and speed of play not just running is what valued most.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                    It's a naive belief to think that the USSDA system is truly producing great players and before you write that off and go back to worshipping the system (simply because you are in it), think about what actually developed your child into the player he is today. Your kid once played for a small club team and benefitted from playing under a great young coach. A coach unattached to the US Soccer system and was totally invested in your child. A coach that never followed a blueprint or play style sent by higher ups, just a genuine teacher of the game. Your kid benefits the MOST from coaches like that, they learn more, they train more and develop a love for the game. They focus on creativity, basics and fun. That sort of environment still exist in today's club soccer. And that's the reason why club soccer will continue to and always be the best at developing players for the next level.

                    I have been out of country and shadowed some great coaches in places like Hungary, Switzerland and recently Chile. I also had a playing career at a D1 school in Virginia. I'm not saying that everything the USSDA system is doing is bad, but it isn't going to help the US progress. If you have watched a USSDA program train for a couple weeks you realize that they practice the same old things for days straight. When do they learn something new? When do they explore a different formation? When do they work on taking players 1 on 1 or creativity? It's just different passing sequences that improve nothing. In other countries, the ability to beat players 1 on 1 with actual skill and not pace is crucial. Every player on the field should be able to do it, maybe even your goalkeeper! In Club soccer, the games are more free flowing, there is less stress put on the players to just keep the ball and there is more room for creativity. That's why you see a player like Jordan Morris who is super ambitious. He played Academy soccer for 1 year, and he is the only player in his age group consistently being apart of the US national team lineup. Before that he played club soccer until he joined Seattle Sounders for 1 year. Did Seattle make him into the player he is today? In one year? Or was it the 17 he spent playing club soccer, improving his ability through free flowing play.

                    Also notice that people who were once really good become average when they join the academy because they are thrown into a system that doesn't facilitate creative play. Watch an academy game and you realize how hard it is to tell which players are actually good and not good because they can 1 and 2 touch side to side. In a club game it is very easy to tell who is a real player and can make a difference. Half of the players in the youth national team fold had no business playing academy anyways, until they were practically forced to join one by the national team coaches in order to keep getting call ups.

                    People are so caught up in trying to get showcased for the national team when they should know it's all politics. There isn't even reasons why some kids aren't on the national team. There are kids right here in florida that have scored 25-30 goals against "the best the US has to offer" and aren't even invited to a camp.

                    I grew up in Jamaica and represented them at the youth levels and we always beat or played a close game against the US. And if you watched the U17 Qualifying you could see the same closeness between the countries. Besides the fact that Jamaica is way smaller then the US, let's look at the fact that Jamaica has no type of USSDA system. There are not even that many clubs there. The US also had the opportunity to take many of the players that ended up playing for Jamaica and they came back and almost knocked them out of the competition.
                    In kick and run soccer it is pace. Skill is not taught by the fat dumb coaches.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Agree with a lot of what has been said. The idea of USSDA is actually a good one. The divisions require a lot of travel but they do make sense and offer good competition. Also to be fair I know plenty of good coaches within the DA system that have been held back by US Soccer and all their regulations. I think what really needs to change is the role of us soccer in individual teams. They not only basically put players on teams but choose the styles and formations, just let the coaches coach. It's that simple, let them pick players and use them how they fit best.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Soccer remains one of the least popular sport in this country, yet one of the most expensive. It's a pay-for-play sport. The older the kids get, the more expensive it gets. The cost is not even close compared to baseball,basketball & football.

                        The highest level of play should be cheap or even free for soccer. Let the rich kids pay for playing division 2's or Rec. But make it a "real" competitive atmosphere for the best athletes by just making it free. That's the only way this country can make progress especially in the men's competition.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                          Soccer remains one of the least popular sport in this country, yet one of the most expensive. It's a pay-for-play sport. The older the kids get, the more expensive it gets. The cost is not even close compared to baseball,basketball & football.

                          The highest level of play should be cheap or even free for soccer. Let the rich kids pay for playing division 2's or Rec. But make it a "real" competitive atmosphere for the best athletes by just making it free. That's the only way this country can make progress especially in the men's competition.
                          I agree 100%. But unfortunately, there is no real way to make it free because of many of the reasons already listed. Soccer in this country does not rely heavily on High School for player development and promotional "ladder". Because it uses the club route, it will always need funding. Which is where US Development academy system is supposed to help out. If Pro clubs, have DA's, then it should be free for all those players that come up through that system.

                          For our normal clubs, TBU, Boca, Weston, etc, there is only one real way to fund any programs: parents. Which we all know is what ruins youth soccer. When mom and dad are paying for little Timmy to play, they expect playing time, playing time, playing time.

                          I wish there was an efficient and productive way to get rid of the pay-to-play architecture.

                          The one way that many people have suggested is to have soccer use the H.S. route used with other sports (baseball, foorball, etc.). But the problem is the development cycle. Soccer needs to have a 10-month season if its going to compete with other soccer countries. The 4-6 month H.S. season just doesn't give players the proper technical/tactical development. Thats also the reason that Development academies are where the National team is looking more heavily for players, rather than college. College season is way to short to have any significance in a players development.

                          Obviously I don't have any answer. I just share the same concerns.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                            If Pro clubs, have DA's, then it should be free for all those players that come up through that system.

                            For our normal clubs, TBU, Boca, Weston, etc, there is only one real way to fund any programs: parents. Which we all know is what ruins youth soccer. When mom and dad are paying for little Timmy to play, they expect playing time, playing time, playing time.
                            e proper technical/tactical development.
                            I'm a parent. If I'm paying, then my kid better be improving and playing in the all the games. It is a rip off if I'm footing the bill, like every other parent on the team, and my kid ends up sitting out. We are not bags of money for coaches and DOCs to pay themselves with and then play whoever they want. I don't give a hoot about the team winning. That's not what I'm spending my hard earned money for. I'm paying for my kid to get better in every aspect of the game, and if that doesn't happen, I have every right to complain or to take my money elsewhere.

                            Having said that, there needs to be a level where parents have no say whatsoever. That will only happen if the parents are not directly footing the bill for their kid. It's do-able for these big clubs with DA's to take $$ from the fee of each of the hundreds of players in the club and to obtain sponsors to fund a DA that is free for all the deserving players.

                            That's a win-win, for me and my mediocre kid, who gets to keep improving and playing, and maybe have a chance at that DA one day, and for the development of US Soccer.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                              I'm a parent. If I'm paying, then my kid better be improving and playing in the all the games. It is a rip off if I'm footing the bill, like every other parent on the team, and my kid ends up sitting out. We are not bags of money for coaches and DOCs to pay themselves with and then play whoever they want. I don't give a hoot about the team winning. That's not what I'm spending my hard earned money for. I'm paying for my kid to get better in every aspect of the game, and if that doesn't happen, I have every right to complain or to take my money elsewhere.

                              Having said that, there needs to be a level where parents have no say whatsoever. That will only happen if the parents are not directly footing the bill for their kid. It's do-able for these big clubs with DA's to take $$ from the fee of each of the hundreds of players in the club and to obtain sponsors to fund a DA that is free for all the deserving players.

                              That's a win-win, for me and my mediocre kid, who gets to keep improving and playing, and maybe have a chance at that DA one day, and for the development of US Soccer.

                              I think you took what I was saying as a negative.

                              I agree with everything you stated, which is exactly what I stated.

                              As a parent paying $1000+, I also expect a certain level of attention to my OWN "little Timmy". Its a lot of money for him/her to ride the bench. But as we both stated, there needs to be a level where they can play for free based on the talent they have.

                              I just don't know that there is a solution yet. Not all bigger clubs fund their DA program from their other Rec/comp programs. I know the two closest to me charge $3000+ for my kid to play DA.

                              I hope our sport grows so that one day we can compete with other sports in this country as well as compete with soccer in other countries. And I'm not saying that to benefit my own kids. They will be well out of competitive soccer by the time that happens.

                              Comment

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