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    #16
    Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
    How exactly are the Timbers ruining it? So they have come in and are doing something different and having more impact in it, but oregon soccer wasn't exactly in great shape prior to them taking over either.
    All they have done is brand nearly anything associated with youat soccer in Oregon as ‘Timbers’ ;camps, ODP, RTC, Leagues, Cups, Academies & Clubs.

    The camps are still just daycare endeavors held at local club fields using summer interns and soccer enthusiats as coaches. Nothing different than 40 years of camps in our market.

    ODP under the ‘Timbers’ banner has some of the worst coaching staff volunteers and players in the history of the state.

    RTC is a Timbers invention and it resembles their daycare Camp product with Staffing and relevance. Simply no tangible or substantive reason to create this bottom rung of group training on the path to nowhere. Outside of a mailing list to solicit all things Timbers for sale.

    OYSA ‘Competitive’ Leagues have grown under the Timbers branding but this is a coincidence of timing with more clubs/Teams being formed and no line of demarcation or standard implemented to create a cutoff for participation. It’s a sea of mediocre club teams playing in recreational leagues calling themselves competitive teams. In addition to the traditional leagues they created the OYSA/Timbers money grab events each spring and fall at Delta Park for 7, 8 & 9 year olds is truly shameful. The trickle down effect is the minions at local rec clubs are modeling this disaster at other venues in the fall and spring.

    Cups with the Timber branding, seriously a Founders cup? was created by the Timbers which is a glorified rec tournament. The President’s Cup and State Cup are still around but nothing has changed to make them better ,as these events have their relevance dimished with RTC/ODP and Fall and Spring leagues play dates, that only allows only a 4 week window to squeeze in ‘playoffs. The meat of the entire structure competitive youth soccer ‘playoffs’ is not even an appetizer on the menu.

    The one area the Timbers have a chance to make a difference and a improvement to the local landscape is their autonomous MLS & NWSL Youth Academies. Instead they hire local wanna be’s coaches as low rent staff, remove local players by the dozen each year from the program since they don’t make the grade of becoming future Timbers/Thorn and hire an ousted big city MLS youth Academy,director to run this craaap show, for boys so his kid can have a team a play for. The girls academy has no director and it’s left to be run by the 2 former OYSA flunkies who run OYSA operations under the shell of the Timbers Brand. This cycle is repeated year after year and is not able to reset.

    Clubs have co-branded with the Timbers in naming rights, with an Imganiary alliance which is truly hysterical if you peel back the Timbers sticker, they are still the same product they have always been, now watered down by the removal of their best players to the Timbers/Thorns DA programs.

    Somehow folks fail to recognize the leadership of the OYSA prior to the Timbers takeover is still in place (MS & EL) under the watchful eye of GW instead of a a 60K member families.

    Yes, this is Great and better than ever. God Bless the OPL right?

    Comment


      #17
      Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
      All they have done is brand nearly anything associated with youat soccer in Oregon as ‘Timbers’ ;camps, ODP, RTC, Leagues, Cups, Academies & Clubs.

      The camps are still just daycare endeavors held at local club fields using summer interns and soccer enthusiats as coaches. Nothing different than 40 years of camps in our market.

      ODP under the ‘Timbers’ banner has some of the worst coaching staff volunteers and players in the history of the state.

      RTC is a Timbers invention and it resembles their daycare Camp product with Staffing and relevance. Simply no tangible or substantive reason to create this bottom rung of group training on the path to nowhere. Outside of a mailing list to solicit all things Timbers for sale.

      OYSA ‘Competitive’ Leagues have grown under the Timbers branding but this is a coincidence of timing with more clubs/Teams being formed and no line of demarcation or standard implemented to create a cutoff for participation. It’s a sea of mediocre club teams playing in recreational leagues calling themselves competitive teams. In addition to the traditional leagues they created the OYSA/Timbers money grab events each spring and fall at Delta Park for 7, 8 & 9 year olds is truly shameful. The trickle down effect is the minions at local rec clubs are modeling this disaster at other venues in the fall and spring.

      Cups with the Timber branding, seriously a Founders cup? was created by the Timbers which is a glorified rec tournament. The President’s Cup and State Cup are still around but nothing has changed to make them better ,as these events have their relevance dimished with RTC/ODP and Fall and Spring leagues play dates, that only allows only a 4 week window to squeeze in ‘playoffs. The meat of the entire structure competitive youth soccer ‘playoffs’ is not even an appetizer on the menu.

      The one area the Timbers have a chance to make a difference and a improvement to the local landscape is their autonomous MLS & NWSL Youth Academies. Instead they hire local wanna be’s coaches as low rent staff, remove local players by the dozen each year from the program since they don’t make the grade of becoming future Timbers/Thorn and hire an ousted big city MLS youth Academy,director to run this craaap show, for boys so his kid can have a team a play for. The girls academy has no director and it’s left to be run by the 2 former OYSA flunkies who run OYSA operations under the shell of the Timbers Brand. This cycle is repeated year after year and is not able to reset.

      Clubs have co-branded with the Timbers in naming rights, with an Imganiary alliance which is truly hysterical if you peel back the Timbers sticker, they are still the same product they have always been, now watered down by the removal of their best players to the Timbers/Thorns DA programs.

      Somehow folks fail to recognize the leadership of the OYSA prior to the Timbers takeover is still in place (MS & EL) under the watchful eye of GW instead of a a 60K member families.

      Yes, this is Great and better than ever. God Bless the OPL right?
      This is closest enough. The 7-9 thing at Delta is no longer branded Timbers.

      Comment


        #18
        Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
        All they have done is brand nearly anything associated with youat soccer in Oregon as ‘Timbers’ ;camps, ODP, RTC, Leagues, Cups, Academies & Clubs.

        The camps are still just daycare endeavors held at local club fields using summer interns and soccer enthusiats as coaches. Nothing different than 40 years of camps in our market.

        ODP under the ‘Timbers’ banner has some of the worst coaching staff volunteers and players in the history of the state.

        RTC is a Timbers invention and it resembles their daycare Camp product with Staffing and relevance. Simply no tangible or substantive reason to create this bottom rung of group training on the path to nowhere. Outside of a mailing list to solicit all things Timbers for sale.

        OYSA ‘Competitive’ Leagues have grown under the Timbers branding but this is a coincidence of timing with more clubs/Teams being formed and no line of demarcation or standard implemented to create a cutoff for participation. It’s a sea of mediocre club teams playing in recreational leagues calling themselves competitive teams. In addition to the traditional leagues they created the OYSA/Timbers money grab events each spring and fall at Delta Park for 7, 8 & 9 year olds is truly shameful. The trickle down effect is the minions at local rec clubs are modeling this disaster at other venues in the fall and spring.

        Cups with the Timber branding, seriously a Founders cup? was created by the Timbers which is a glorified rec tournament. The President’s Cup and State Cup are still around but nothing has changed to make them better ,as these events have their relevance dimished with RTC/ODP and Fall and Spring leagues play dates, that only allows only a 4 week window to squeeze in ‘playoffs. The meat of the entire structure competitive youth soccer ‘playoffs’ is not even an appetizer on the menu.

        The one area the Timbers have a chance to make a difference and a improvement to the local landscape is their autonomous MLS & NWSL Youth Academies. Instead they hire local wanna be’s coaches as low rent staff, remove local players by the dozen each year from the program since they don’t make the grade of becoming future Timbers/Thorn and hire an ousted big city MLS youth Academy,director to run this craaap show, for boys so his kid can have a team a play for. The girls academy has no director and it’s left to be run by the 2 former OYSA flunkies who run OYSA operations under the shell of the Timbers Brand. This cycle is repeated year after year and is not able to reset.

        Clubs have co-branded with the Timbers in naming rights, with an Imganiary alliance which is truly hysterical if you peel back the Timbers sticker, they are still the same product they have always been, now watered down by the removal of their best players to the Timbers/Thorns DA programs.

        Somehow folks fail to recognize the leadership of the OYSA prior to the Timbers takeover is still in place (MS & EL) under the watchful eye of GW instead of a a 60K member families.

        Yes, this is Great and better than ever. God Bless the OPL right?
        I agree with everything you said except the best players are not all at academy teams. The no high school sports is a deal breaker for plenty of families. What they did was take a landscape already diluted by OYSA and ECNL, and dilute it further. There are girls on ECNL teams who would never make an ECNL team if the team had all the "best" players. There are girls on the academy teams who would never make an academy team if it had the "best" players. And there are girls on OYSA "premier team" rosters who wouldn't be on those rosters if ECNL and GDA hadn't siphoned away players. All Timbers has done is make an irrelevant state less relevant. But hey your kid gets to wear a GDA patch on her uniform and you get free soccer while you drop her off for practice in your Range Rover.

        Comment


          #19
          Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
          This is closest enough. The 7-9 thing at Delta is no longer branded Timbers.
          Even worse if the OYSA is offering this type of travel and commitment on Sunday's in the fall & spring for 7 & 8 year olds. If it's truly out of the Timbers wheelhouse, OYSA should not be competing for rec league dollars vs the non profit clubs. The Timbers don't have any conflict of interest as they are solely in the business of running soccer for profit.

          Comment


            #20
            Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
            I agree with everything you said except the best players are not all at academy teams. The no high school sports is a deal breaker for plenty of families. What they did was take a landscape already diluted by OYSA and ECNL, and dilute it further. There are girls on ECNL teams who would never make an ECNL team if the team had all the "best" players. There are girls on the academy teams who would never make an academy team if it had the "best" players. And there are girls on OYSA "premier team" rosters who wouldn't be on those rosters if ECNL and GDA hadn't siphoned away players. All Timbers has done is make an irrelevant state less relevant. But hey your kid gets to wear a GDA patch on her uniform and you get free soccer while you drop her off for practice in your Range Rover.
            Results for both the Boys and Girls academies already establish the best of the best in the region are not part of the program.

            With that said, your club can buy DA patch for your club boys team or a US Soccer Club (ECNL) patch for your club girls team. Doesn't change what they are

            Comment


              #21
              Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
              Even worse if the OYSA is offering this type of travel and commitment on Sunday's in the fall & spring for 7 & 8 year olds. If it's truly out of the Timbers wheelhouse, OYSA should not be competing for rec league dollars vs the non profit clubs. The Timbers don't have any conflict of interest as they are solely in the business of running soccer for profit.
              Huh?

              The Delta Park Sunday league is fun. And unlike OYSA's leagues, which are required if you want a decent seeding into State Cup, there's no obligation whatsoever for a club to participate in the development league if they don't want to. And many clubs don't--FC Portland doesn't send teams, nor does LOSC, nor does WUSC, nor do a lot of clubs.

              (And while this is considered a "recreational" league, in that standings are not published and trophies not awarded, most of the teams that compete are classic clubs; clubs who cannot compete in purely rec leagues like THJSL or PYSA).

              Is it your contention that the Timbers should be forbidden from doing so, or that this tournament should not exist? Or are you simply objecting to Merritt Paulson making so much as a dime off of organizing youth soccer tournaments?

              Comment


                #22
                Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                Even worse if the OYSA is offering this type of travel and commitment on Sunday's in the fall & spring for 7 & 8 year olds. If it's truly out of the Timbers wheelhouse, OYSA should not be competing for rec league dollars vs the non profit clubs. The Timbers don't have any conflict of interest as they are solely in the business of running soccer for profit.
                Timbers can do whatever they want, but non-profit OYSA shouldn't run development leagues?

                Capitalism in Trump America I guess.

                Comment


                  #23
                  Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                  Timbers can do whatever they want, but non-profit OYSA shouldn't run development leagues?

                  Capitalism in Trump America I guess.
                  You missed the point about the developmental leagues and the fact the OYSA is actually competing now with their member clubs on this front, duplication of services & creating competition between the member clubs and the parent org over parents $$$. That's where this is severely sideways wrong. Sorry if you didn't digest that CRITICAL aspect.


                  What's next OYSA running summer tourneys? Futsal and Indoor Soccer leagues? Sand Soccer? Soccer Tennis tourneys? Since they are cash strapped? Burying the local non-profits fundraisers?

                  Yes a private business can do whatever they want. Timbers. Shell oil etc...

                  But, the sad irony for the OYSA regarding this ethical dilemma with it's member clubs is they sold out to the Timbers.

                  They (OYSA) can't win on any front. Unless the blow up the contract with the Timbers then the member clubs and OYSA could get a win-win.

                  USYS only mandates it's member states to run ODP & Cups. Leagues are not mandated to be done by the state association, but being cash poor OYSA made a bad decision to run the developmental league vs local clubs.

                  Yes, it's all messed up here and Trump or Obama had nothing to do with our disaster.

                  Comment


                    #24
                    Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                    Huh?

                    The Delta Park Sunday league is fun. And unlike OYSA's leagues, which are required if you want a decent seeding into State Cup, there's no obligation whatsoever for a club to participate in the development league if they don't want to. And many clubs don't--FC Portland doesn't send teams, nor does LOSC, nor does WUSC, nor do a lot of clubs.

                    (And while this is considered a "recreational" league, in that standings are not published and trophies not awarded, most of the teams that compete are classic clubs; clubs who cannot compete in purely rec leagues like THJSL or PYSA).

                    Is it your contention that the Timbers should be forbidden from doing so, or that this tournament should not exist? Or are you simply objecting to Merritt Paulson making so much as a dime off of organizing youth soccer tournaments?
                    OYSA shouldn't be competing with it's member clubs over league offerings, that' just wrong on so many levels.

                    This league (Dev) is sponsored by just the OYSA (not Timbers anymore) and is competing with it own member clubs like WUSC and FC Portland for teams in the Fall and Spring. Twisted stuff.

                    Comment


                      #25
                      You can blame Timbers, OYSA, ECNL, or whoever you want for the state of Oregon soccer, but the truth is until we change the mentality going forward the development wont get any better. If you go watch U11-U14 leagues even the top divisions very few teams actually try to play out of the back and try to connect passes to each other, instead its a battle of who has the biggest strongest players and they play direct. They do it at these young ages because it gets results. The problem is they miss all these years of real development. Those top studs then get attracted to DA or ECNL and whats left when they leave is a terrible league because the other kids were forgotten at the younger ages.

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                        OYSA shouldn't be competing with it's member clubs over league offerings, that' just wrong on so many levels.

                        This league (Dev) is sponsored by just the OYSA (not Timbers anymore) and is competing with it own member clubs like WUSC and FC Portland for teams in the Fall and Spring. Twisted stuff.
                        Of the many problems in youth soccer, a bankrupt OYSA trying to stay afloat by running a little kid league is the least.

                        Best thing would be if OYSA got its act together and ran all of the larger leagues, getting Timbers, Willamette, and FC out of it.

                        Comment


                          #27
                          Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                          OYSA shouldn't be competing with it's member clubs over league offerings, that' just wrong on so many levels.
                          What should OYSA be doing then? Providing registration service only? Running the state/president's cup?

                          Running a competitive league seems to be well within the proper scope of OYSA's purpose. The fact that a few clubs don't wish to participate and prefer to run their own (possibly for valid reasons--if nothing else, avoiding the drive to North Portland), doesn't suddenly make it a crime for OYSA to be doing so.

                          This league (Dev) is sponsored by just the OYSA (not Timbers anymore) and is competing with it own member clubs like WUSC and FC Portland for teams in the Fall and Spring. Twisted stuff.
                          The thing that is "twisted" is that you think your little club league shouldn't have any "competition". Indeed, what is twisted is that you view this through the prism of "competition", as though every club dollar spent on putting kids to play at Delta Park is money stolen from the purse of other clubs. You act as though FC and other clubs who DO want to run their own leagues, should get a monopoly on doing so.

                          So long as the league is reasonably priced and fairly run, I've got no problem with the OYSA dev league. It's reasonably well-run; my only complaint is the drive to Delta Park, which is a bit of an armpit. But this idea of "HOW DARE OYSA COMPETE WITH OTHER ENTITIES BY RUNNING A YOUTH LEAGUE" is so much self-serving nonsense, I can't believe you actually bothered to write it. "Boo hoo. Our club isn't getting as much revenue for OUR league because the meanies in OYSA are competing with us! How DARE they? They're supposed to be objective, which means not doing anything that interferes with our ability to hoover in the revenue!"

                          You'll notice that OYSA, and the clubs participating in the Dev League, aren't objecting to your club's league. The more leagues, the better! Especially at the younger ages. I fully support Crossfire and FC if they want to start their own dev league rather than play at Delta; there are good reasons to do so. And I certainly wouldn't say something as utterly stupid as to suggest that these clubs are depriving OYSA of revenue, or competing unfairly with it.

                          This mentality--the pay-to-play mentality--is a major part of what's wrong with Oregon and American youth soccer. Sorry that OYSA doesn't bend over for you and your country-club league, and roll out the red carpet.

                          Probably just as well. Any of the teams in U10 Premier would have smoked y'all anyway.

                          Comment


                            #28
                            When you're bankrupt like the OYSA they have no options left on the table to bring in revenue, other than to eat their own members fundraising activities, at least this way they might have some meat on their paper plate. The timbers took all their (OYSA) revenue streams (Cups, Leagues, RTC, Camps, ODP), so the trickle down effect is cannibalizing the member clubs within their own state association over 7 & 8 year old soccer. Which is truly the mission of the Parent association of non profit clubs, Ethically very twisted and sick.

                            It's a free market in youth leagues all over the country. Why would this state feel they need to compete with it's OWN members for rec league dollars?

                            You are perhaps the most ignorant tool ever to post when it comes to the role of a parent association and it's membership of non profit clubs.

                            That's beside the point. Mr. Idi Amin. Your day will come, just like his.


                            Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                            What should OYSA be doing then? Providing registration service only? Running the state/president's cup?

                            Running a competitive league seems to be well within the proper scope of OYSA's purpose. The fact that a few clubs don't wish to participate and prefer to run their own (possibly for valid reasons--if nothing else, avoiding the drive to North Portland), doesn't suddenly make it a crime for OYSA to be doing so.The thing that is "twisted" is that you think your little club league shouldn't have any "competition". Indeed, what is twisted is that you view this through the prism of "competition", as though every club dollar spent on putting kids to play at Delta Park is money stolen from the purse of other clubs. You act as though FC and other clubs who DO want to run their own leagues, should get a monopoly on doing so.So long as the league is reasonably priced and fairly run, I've got no problem with the OYSA dev league. It's reasonably well-run; my only complaint is the drive to Delta Park, which is a bit of an armpit. But this idea of "HOW DARE OYSA COMPETE WITH OTHER ENTITIES BY RUNNING A YOUTH LEAGUE" is so much self-serving nonsense, I can't believe you actually bothered to write it. "Boo hoo. Our club isn't getting as much revenue for OUR league because the meanies in OYSA are competing with us! How DARE they? They're supposed to be objective, which means not doing anything that interferes with our ability to hoover in the revenue!"You'll notice that OYSA, and the clubs participating in the Dev League, aren't objecting to your club's league. The more leagues, the better! Especially at the younger ages. I fully support Crossfire and FC if they want to start their own dev league rather than play at Delta; there are good reasons to do so. And I certainly wouldn't say something as utterly stupid as to suggest that these clubs are depriving OYSA of revenue, or competing unfairly with it.This mentality--the pay-to-play mentality--is a major part of what's wrong with Oregon and American youth soccer. Sorry that OYSA doesn't bend over for you and your country-club league, and roll out the red carpet. Probably just as well. Any of the teams in U10 Premier would have smoked y'all anyway.

                            Comment


                              #29
                              Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                              When you're bankrupt like the OYSA they have no options left on the table to bring in revenue, other than to eat their own members fundraising activities, at least this way they might have some meat on their paper plate. The timbers took all their (OYSA) revenue streams (Cups, Leagues, RTC, Camps, ODP), so the trickle down effect is cannibalizing the member clubs within their own state association over 7 & 8 year old soccer. Which is truly the mission of the Parent association of non profit clubs, Ethically very twisted and sick.
                              Horse manure. There are plenty of leagues around. If you don't want to play in OYSA's league, then don't. If a club or a group of clubs wants to run their own and keep the money, go ahead.

                              But there are many clubs around who don't run leagues--either they are too small, or don't have enough fields, or whatever. OYSA's league fills a need.

                              It's a free market in youth leagues all over the country. Why would this state feel they need to compete with it's OWN members for rec league dollars?
                              Why should clubs get to fundraise, but the state association not get to do so? Especially if the state association is having financial troubles?

                              You are perhaps the most ignorant tool ever to post when it comes to the role of a parent association and it's membership of non profit clubs.
                              Except OYSA has been running leagues for a very long time. As do many other state associations. This is perfectly normal, so quit trying to pretend otherwise. Besides, the clubs that are whining about this are generally the ones who have been trying to kill off/replace OYSA for years. A lot of OYSA's difficulties are directly related to the west hills clubs and their little OPL power play a few years back. So spare me your sanctimonious crocodile tears. OYSA has the rights to run leagues if it wishes, and it has no duty (moral, ethical, or legal) to refrain from running leagues, camps, tournaments, or other soccer activities just because some club might view that activity as competition.

                              We're not stupid. We know what this is all about.

                              Comment


                                #30
                                Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                                Horse manure. There are plenty of leagues around. If you don't want to play in OYSA's league, then don't. If a club or a group of clubs wants to run their own and keep the money, go ahead.

                                But there are many clubs around who don't run leagues--either they are too small, or don't have enough fields, or whatever. OYSA's league fills a need.



                                Why should clubs get to fundraise, but the state association not get to do so? Especially if the state association is having financial troubles?



                                Except OYSA has been running leagues for a very long time. As do many other state associations. This is perfectly normal, so quit trying to pretend otherwise. Besides, the clubs that are whining about this are generally the ones who have been trying to kill off/replace OYSA for years. A lot of OYSA's difficulties are directly related to the west hills clubs and their little OPL power play a few years back. So spare me your sanctimonious crocodile tears. OYSA has the rights to run leagues if it wishes, and it has no duty (moral, ethical, or legal) to refrain from running leagues, camps, tournaments, or other soccer activities just because some club might view that activity as competition.

                                We're not stupid. We know what this is all about.
                                Almost nobody wants to kill off OYSA; the OYSA deal with the devil (Peregrine) is a different matter.

                                Otherwise carryon you 2.

                                Comment

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