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    #16
    Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
    You have it completely backward actually. Most clubs run their youth development programs to break even or a loss using the registration fees from the older teams to help supplement the cost. The idea is to make it affordable to get these players into the club and keep them going forward as their cost increases.

    I can't speak to RCF, but any good program worth their salt should be making sure the players this age are getting 1000+ touches each session and playing in lots of game-based training.

    As far as "skills" training goes. Any coach who has worked with players this age knows full well how bored they get doing technical work even after 10-15 minutes. They are there to play soccer. Let them love the game first!
    It's actually an effort by a Rec/Classic club to monetize what use to be strictly recreational parent coached soccer at ages 7, 8 & 9. It was an untapped revenue stream that was right in front of the rec/classic club eyes. T

    By Cherry picking the clubs top recreational players at ages 6, 7, 8 & 9 it allows club to pay more of the staff a paycheck and doesn't change the fabric of club, it just adds an acronym and a mythical tier-PDP, PDA, Juniors etc... That parents will pay more $$ for the label.

    Slick stuff. The more you know.

    Comment


      #17
      Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
      It's actually an effort by a Rec/Classic club to monetize what use to be strictly recreational parent coached soccer at ages 7, 8 & 9. It was an untapped revenue stream that was right in front of the rec/classic club eyes. T

      By Cherry picking the clubs top recreational players at ages 6, 7, 8 & 9 it allows club to pay more of the staff a paycheck and doesn't change the fabric of club, it just adds an acronym and a mythical tier-PDP, PDA, Juniors etc... That parents will pay more $$ for the label.

      Slick stuff. The more you know.
      Did you ever consider the idea that some players this age get bored with Rec and want more? When several players are easily able to dribble by everyone and score at will, then have to get told to just pass because their parent coach feels bad, perhaps they want a challenge?

      Allowing the top players in an area to train together and challenge each other makes sense right? Playing games against players of similar ability from other areas also makes sense.

      This environment is the one created throughout other countries who are identifying and training young players at these ages.

      Don't get me wrong, over-coaching is a major issue at this age and unless you have a skilled coach who allows the players to be creative, play freely, and love the game, they can have a very negative experience. However, these top players are better served in a competitive ability based environment rather than mixed around on random teams in a Rec program. Of course this is only for that top 15-20%. The rest of them are served just fine from that Rec environment.

      Comment


        #18
        Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
        It's actually an effort by a Rec/Classic club to monetize what use to be strictly recreational parent coached soccer at ages 7, 8 & 9. It was an untapped revenue stream that was right in front of the rec/classic club eyes. T

        By Cherry picking the clubs top recreational players at ages 6, 7, 8 & 9 it allows club to pay more of the staff a paycheck and doesn't change the fabric of club, it just adds an acronym and a mythical tier-PDP, PDA, Juniors etc... That parents will pay more $$ for the label.

        Slick stuff. The more you know.
        Follow the money

        Comment


          #19
          Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
          Did you ever consider the idea that some players this age get bored with Rec and want more? When several players are easily able to dribble by everyone and score at will, then have to get told to just pass because their parent coach feels bad, perhaps they want a challenge?

          Allowing the top players in an area to train together and challenge each other makes sense right? Playing games against players of similar ability from other areas also makes sense.

          This environment is the one created throughout other countries who are identifying and training young players at these ages.

          Don't get me wrong, over-coaching is a major issue at this age and unless you have a skilled coach who allows the players to be creative, play freely, and love the game, they can have a very negative experience. However, these top players are better served in a competitive ability based environment rather than mixed around on random teams in a Rec program. Of course this is only for that top 15-20%. The rest of them are served just fine from that Rec environment.
          The best of the best players always move on to older or better teams, absolutely!

          Your not considering the reality of how it works at a local rec/classic community club.
          This new age effort to monetize a rec/classic with a 'tasty' club tier/activity is this:
          for each exceptional younger player in an age group the club must lump in or attract 5 to 7 very average to above average recreational players.
          Most rec/classic clubs have around 5 to 7 bored or too good for rec per age group and gender.

          Using this formula the PDP/jrs program will amass around 25 to 40 kids per age and gender.

          It's strictly a club business model, it's really not a destination for those too good for rec, (even though some actually are) that's hilarious, since were talking about 1st, 2nd & 3rd grade kiddos and the clubs are not spilling over with phenoms at the younger ages.

          It's simply a structural illusion to label and monetize. Without any barrier to entry other than the ability to pay.

          Too many clubs in the metro area with a compelling business interest and a very short supply of truly special talent, to have me buy into this charade of nothing. Sorry.

          Comment


            #20
            Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
            Did you ever consider the idea that some players this age get bored with Rec and want more? When several players are easily able to dribble by everyone and score at will, then have to get told to just pass because their parent coach feels bad, perhaps they want a challenge?

            Allowing the top players in an area to train together and challenge each other makes sense right? Playing games against players of similar ability from other areas also makes sense.

            This environment is the one created throughout other countries who are identifying and training young players at these ages.

            Don't get me wrong, over-coaching is a major issue at this age and unless you have a skilled coach who allows the players to be creative, play freely, and love the game, they can have a very negative experience. However, these top players are better served in a competitive ability based environment rather than mixed around on random teams in a Rec program. Of course this is only for that top 15-20%. The rest of them are served just fine from that Rec environment.
            Screwing parents out of money with promises of future success is the second oldest occupation.

            And we have first class scammers. How to spot the scammer: accent, large bank account, luxury car at field, big smile, gregarious personality, necessary showcase trips to sunny locales.

            Luckily for them, most of us think our kid is in that top 15-20% you mention.

            And they keep screwing us, smiling and patting us on the back.

            But they never answer the phone the next morning.

            Comment


              #21
              Those who say its just a money grab are right and wrong. Its not a money grab at that moment, instead it increases the pipeline of kids who will play at the older age groups when its year round at U11 and above.

              For what its worth, from the clubs I've seen its also helped the kids come into U11 much more prepared, and the kids who typically do Jr academy are doing it because they do want something more serious than Rec, which is a good reason to do it.

              Personally I would stay away from any program at U10 and below thats trying to go year round. From U11 till they graduate these kids that want to play at a high level are going to be going year round, many burn out from that as they go through it. There's absolutely no reason to have an 8 year old start going year round. Yes a few kids might enjoy it and stick all the way through, but the amount of growth for the average child isn't enough to justify that much time at 8 years old. I would stick to programs that go along with the Rec schedule (fall and spring academies) its enough to give them a higher level experience, but gives them time to still be a little kid and look forward to the next season.

              Comment


                #22
                Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                Those who say its just a money grab are right and wrong. Its not a money grab at that moment, instead it increases the pipeline of kids who will play at the older age groups when its year round at U11 and above.

                For what its worth, from the clubs I've seen its also helped the kids come into U11 much more prepared, and the kids who typically do Jr academy are doing it because they do want something more serious than Rec, which is a good reason to do it.

                Personally I would stay away from any program at U10 and below thats trying to go year round. From U11 till they graduate these kids that want to play at a high level are going to be going year round, many burn out from that as they go through it. There's absolutely no reason to have an 8 year old start going year round. Yes a few kids might enjoy it and stick all the way through, but the amount of growth for the average child isn't enough to justify that much time at 8 years old. I would stick to programs that go along with the Rec schedule (fall and spring academies) its enough to give them a higher level experience, but gives them time to still be a little kid and look forward to the next season.

                Labels have changed, but the product hasn't.

                7, 8 & 9 year olds are all recreational players at Oregon metro clubs.

                But, if you can monetize this ilk, then slap an acronym on it during these vulnerable/gullible soccer parent years, do it by golly & don't look back, more suckers are coming up next year.

                see ADF as a case study of this practice & ideology in it's most most extreme form feeding off parental and coaching delusions and truly offering a wonderful escape from reality.

                The PDP,PDA,YDP,Junior model is simply a toned down version of the same. Thank god.

                Comment


                  #23
                  The top Junior Academy is in Vantucky at Timbers

                  Cheapest in the area.
                  They pull from a 3500 player recreational program that sees 2000 players from 4-11 years old.
                  They have a great director and a set curriculum that is actually implemented.

                  Comment


                    #24
                    Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                    The top Junior Academy is in Vantucky at Timbers

                    Cheapest in the area.
                    They pull from a 3500 player recreational program that sees 2000 players from 4-11 years old.
                    They have a great director and a set curriculum that is actually implemented.
                    Just an FYI that's called a large outside of Oregon, recreational base.

                    The only 'program' they have is to the Gun Show.

                    Comment


                      #25
                      Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                      Just an FYI that's called a large outside of Oregon, recreational base.

                      The only 'program' they have is to the Gun Show.
                      And it’s in vantucky. No one wants to go to that whitewashed conservative hell hole

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Son: "Hey Daddy, I'm bored with Rec and want more of a challenge"

                        Dad: "Son, let me tell you why you we aren't going to do that" ...

                        Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                        The best of the best players always move on to older or better teams, absolutely!

                        Your not considering the reality of how it works at a local rec/classic community club.
                        This new age effort to monetize a rec/classic with a 'tasty' club tier/activity is this:
                        for each exceptional younger player in an age group the club must lump in or attract 5 to 7 very average to above average recreational players.
                        Most rec/classic clubs have around 5 to 7 bored or too good for rec per age group and gender.

                        Using this formula the PDP/jrs program will amass around 25 to 40 kids per age and gender.

                        It's strictly a club business model, it's really not a destination for those too good for rec, (even though some actually are) that's hilarious, since were talking about 1st, 2nd & 3rd grade kiddos and the clubs are not spilling over with phenoms at the younger ages.

                        It's simply a structural illusion to label and monetize. Without any barrier to entry other than the ability to pay.

                        Too many clubs in the metro area with a compelling business interest and a very short supply of truly special talent, to have me buy into this charade of nothing. Sorry.
                        Son: "Okay daddy, I see your point. You are right and I'm wrong. Sorry I asked."

                        Comment


                          #27
                          Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                          The top Junior Academy is in Vantucky at Timbers

                          Cheapest in the area.
                          They pull from a 3500 player recreational program that sees 2000 players from 4-11 years old.
                          They have a great director and a set curriculum that is actually implemented.

                          As a parent of a child just moving from a rec league in OR to join the WA Timbers academy. Vancouver has two teams from their JA at U9 and U10 that are fantastic, but the other 7 teams at those same ages are high level rec at best. With any JA program there will be a huge range in the talent pool because the clubs are not going to turn anyone away who will pay no matter how high or low the skills. They do their best to group the kids by skill level, but even then parents may not be happy if their superstar is playing with a handful of kids not up to their standards. (and yes my kid is one of those lower kids)

                          The program is very good for developing lower level players to prepare them for more competition, but I believe their top teams do a lot of playing and training (outside of the club) in order to keep pushing those higher level kids.

                          Comment


                            #28
                            Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                            As a parent of a child just moving from a rec league in OR to join the WA Timbers academy. Vancouver has two teams from their JA at U9 and U10 that are fantastic, but the other 7 teams at those same ages are high level rec at best. With any JA program there will be a huge range in the talent pool because the clubs are not going to turn anyone away who will pay no matter how high or low the skills. They do their best to group the kids by skill level, but even then parents may not be happy if their superstar is playing with a handful of kids not up to their standards. (and yes my kid is one of those lower kids)

                            The program is very good for developing lower level players to prepare them for more competition, but I believe their top teams do a lot of playing and training (outside of the club) in order to keep pushing those higher level kids.
                            Parents need to spend less time worrying about the overall level of talent at 8 and 9 years old and instead just make sure their child is learning the basics and building a good foundation. by the time these kids hit 13 and 14 and once these kids physical develop, half the top team will be made up of those barely above Rec kids, because thats how it goes.

                            Comment


                              #29
                              Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                              RCF is amazing but the cost for the select teams there are $2295. Or is there a less expensive option they dont advertise?
                              My son is on a select team and we pay under $900 a year.

                              Comment


                                #30
                                Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                                My son is on a select team and we pay under $900 a year.
                                That's the hook for the Junior Program. Pay $900 bucks and you think you are select.

                                It's brilliant.

                                Comment

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