OP here. Thanks for the discussion. This is very helpful. I think it's easy to get overwhelmed and lose site of what is best for the individual player. ECNL and GDA probably isn't an option for us (financially and logistically) but NPL is probably what my daughter would consider "it". Hopefully she will get her chance someday. Don't want her to give up too soon, if that is what she really wants.
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From Amanda Cromwell. Sums it up nicely for me wrt girls
What separates the top collegiate soccer players from the rest?
AC: Top players have an extremely high work rate. Starting at a young age - they were constantly seeking ways to get better whether it be training with boys, playing pickup, or working on technical skills before school. Another common trait among these players is resilience. A lot of best players I’ve coached have faced difficult setbacks in their career (i.e. getting cut from a team, major injury,, a coach telling them they aren’t good enough, etc.) but they find a way to overcome obstacle(s) and come back stronger. Lastly, each of these players had a deep love for the game. They aren’t forced by anyone to put in the extra work, they do it because they enjoy it.
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Originally posted by Unregistered View PostOP here. Thanks for the discussion. This is very helpful. I think it's easy to get overwhelmed and lose site of what is best for the individual player. ECNL and GDA probably isn't an option for us (financially and logistically) but NPL is probably what my daughter would consider "it". Hopefully she will get her chance someday. Don't want her to give up too soon, if that is what she really wants.
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Originally posted by Unregistered View PostOP here. Thanks for the discussion. This is very helpful. I think it's easy to get overwhelmed and lose site of what is best for the individual player. ECNL and GDA probably isn't an option for us (financially and logistically) but NPL is probably what my daughter would consider "it". Hopefully she will get her chance someday. Don't want her to give up too soon, if that is what she really wants.
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When you merge the three posts you basically get the right picture. It all starts with the expectations. What is the parent looking for? Its really the point where you cross over from town/rec to club that things start to get murky because that opens the whole cost return issue and we all have different views on that specific point. I personally think that once you start belonging to programs with the word "elite" in there name a lot of the arguments about not having high end expectations go out the window but that is me.
If you accept that the goal elite soccer is to build the best possible players, not necessarily the happiest or well adjusted ones, then you really have to accept that the three pronged foundation of athleticism, motivation, and skill that is necessary in order to achieve goal that is usually fairly apparent quite young. The actual challenge is more about nurturing all three of those elements in equal doses than it is about just teaching a kid to play soccer. Its just way more complicated than is given credit for here. You don't get there by just joining a team and floating along with it. You have to actually sell out for soccer. That doesn't normally match with expectations that most parents bring into a thing like youth soccer though.
Originally posted by Unregistered View PostThe biggest problem here, is that everybody defines “it” differently. The soccer elitists with kids going full ride to D1 schools, think only that outcome is “it”. And then there the more balanced view that “it” Would constitute a varsity starter, and someone who will continue to play soccer in college at any level. I would say, that if your kid is continually moving up the ranks to hire teams, and better leagues by the time they are you 13 you are already in the top percentages of youth socce would constitute a varsity starter, and someone who will continue to play soccer in college at any level. I would say, that if your kid is continually moving up the ranks and can get to to an NPL, ECNL, or DA team by U13, And they are already in the top few percent of our youth soccer players. Does that mean they a lock for a college scholarship? Nope, not at all. But it will at least separate them and put them on a better track to play in college (again, if that is how you define “it”). Some of those kids will drop out, & drop off etc, but as a whole, getting there by U13/U14 is a pretty good indicator.
If you are only defining the rare NT unicorns as having “it” ... It has been my experience that you can tell pretty early on. I have seen a few of the national team level players play when they were U10, and they were head & shoulders above EVERYONE at that young age, and were recognized nationally by U12. The few I have personal interactions with all had college offers by 8th/9th grades (speaking of girls here, as that is highly uncommon on boys side).
Originally posted by Unregistered View PostAthletically an important turning point is when players transition to the bigger 11v11 field (u11 or u12 depending league). Some players don't make that transition well. Players that stood out on a small field suddenly melt away to average. The 2nd transition point is puberty. Puberty is not always kind to girls (big hips, big boobs). For boys the timing is more staggered. A smaller late bloomer can get left behind because coaches here tend to favor larger, faster kids. Sometimes they'll shoot up 6" in what feels like a week and they can be very awkward and gangly for awhile.
Emotionally the middle school years also separate the wheat from the chafe. It's very common to lose interest in the sport, start focusing on other sports or interests. To reach the highest levels of play or maybe eventually play in college you have to work hard at it. Plenty of skilled players just aren't motivated to do put in the extra effort.Originally posted by Unregistered View PostFrom Amanda Cromwell. Sums it up nicely for me wrt girls
What separates the top collegiate soccer players from the rest?
AC: Top players have an extremely high work rate. Starting at a young age - they were constantly seeking ways to get better whether it be training with boys, playing pickup, or working on technical skills before school. Another common trait among these players is resilience. A lot of best players I’ve coached have faced difficult setbacks in their career (i.e. getting cut from a team, major injury,, a coach telling them they aren’t good enough, etc.) but they find a way to overcome obstacle(s) and come back stronger. Lastly, each of these players had a deep love for the game. They aren’t forced by anyone to put in the extra work, they do it because they enjoy it.
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Great thread. For my D, 'it' was being a varsity starter as a freshman, being top on a top NEP team and playing D3 in college. Not everyone wants ECNL and D1. She was cut from her ECNL team and forced to reevaluate prior to HS. Then ultimately turned down NPL once she hit HS because she realized she only wanted D3 and didn't need the crazy travel to achieve that. A top NEP team with appropriate college camp and showcase exposure was enough.
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Originally posted by Unregistered View PostWhen you merge the three posts you basically get the right picture. It all starts with the expectations. What is the parent looking for? Its really the point where you cross over from town/rec to club that things start to get murky because that opens the whole cost return issue and we all have different views on that specific point. I personally think that once you start belonging to programs with the word "elite" in there name a lot of the arguments about not having high end expectations go out the window but that is me.
If you accept that the goal elite soccer is to build the best possible players, not necessarily the happiest or well adjusted ones, then you really have to accept that the three pronged foundation of athleticism, motivation, and skill that is necessary in order to achieve goal that is usually fairly apparent quite young. The actual challenge is more about nurturing all three of those elements in equal doses than it is about just teaching a kid to play soccer. Its just way more complicated than is given credit for here. You don't get there by just joining a team and floating along with it. You have to actually sell out for soccer. That doesn't normally match with expectations that most parents bring into a thing like youth soccer though.
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Originally posted by Unregistered View PostGreat thread. For my D, 'it' was being a varsity starter as a freshman, being top on a top NEP team and playing D3 in college. Not everyone wants ECNL and D1. She was cut from her ECNL team and forced to reevaluate prior to HS. Then ultimately turned down NPL once she hit HS because she realized she only wanted D3 and didn't need the crazy travel to achieve that. A top NEP team with appropriate college camp and showcase exposure was enough.
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Originally posted by Unregistered View PostBTNT, what are you doing? Seriously. Do you really have nothing to do? Jesuz.
Regardless of wether it was or wasn't BTDT the content was insightful.
The sacrifices necessary to make it to the top level are a) beyond what the above average player/family can handle and b) the "IT" of the highest level isn't even what they seek
That's pretty reasonable input and begs the question "If she ain't got it, and she don't want it, then why we doing it?" The answer for us, is that we enjoy it, we can (mostly) afford it and our expectations are reasonably set. The journey not the destination
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