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    #31
    we can agree to disagree. The product is very exclusionary by design by cost as much as talent IMO. That is how status brands work no matter if it is cars, shoes or youth soccer clubs.

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      #32
      Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
      we can agree to disagree. The product is very exclusionary by design by cost as much as talent IMO. That is how status brands work no matter if it is cars, shoes or youth soccer clubs.
      So all club soccer organizations are status brands? I think your brush is way too broad.

      I'm sure that Stars, NEFC or SSS want their top teams to be seen as elite ("exclusionary") and aspirational to players and families at other clubs or thinking of joining clubs. But are you going to try to convince me that a small local club - created to raise the level of play of the local kids - is a status brand? That's lunacy.

      ECNL? Yes, its organization and the way it markets itself is all about status, and the clubs that align themselves with the league take advantage of that status to separate themselves from their local non-ECNL competition. That's why they need to be very careful about over-expansion; once everyone is driving a Mercedes it no longer means anything and the snobs need to find a higher brand.

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        #33
        Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
        So all club soccer organizations are status brands? I think your brush is way too broad.

        I'm sure that Stars, NEFC or SSS want their top teams to be seen as elite ("exclusionary") and aspirational to players and families at other clubs or thinking of joining clubs. But are you going to try to convince me that a small local club - created to raise the level of play of the local kids - is a status brand? That's lunacy.

        ECNL? Yes, its organization and the way it markets itself is all about status, and the clubs that align themselves with the league take advantage of that status to separate themselves from their local non-ECNL competition. That's why they need to be very careful about over-expansion; once everyone is driving a Mercedes it no longer means anything and the snobs need to find a higher brand.
        I am referring to the uber-expensive "high level" soccer clubs playing in exclusionary leagues like GDA and ECNL - Not lower cost soccer options that are not so exclusionary and therefore not as high status.

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          #34
          Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
          The entire business model is about status. Absolutely no different form a luxury car or joining a country club. Only this product lets parents pay a fortune to compete fro status through the sports exploits their children.
          The clubs might want to be luxury items, but for many parents, club soccer is just a means to an end. Their kid seems to be good at soccer, so mom and dad use club soccer to maybe get junior to college. Luxury cars and country clubs are not a means to an end. They are the ends.

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            #35
            Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
            The clubs might want to be luxury items, but for many parents, club soccer is just a means to an end. Their kid seems to be good at soccer, so mom and dad use club soccer to maybe get junior to college. Luxury cars and country clubs are not a means to an end. They are the ends.
            I disagree. They are a means to signaling status and that is why plenty (not all) of families pursue deluxe youth soccer. If you play in these leagues, you will find there are a fair number of players that do not intend to pursue college soccer although many do,

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              #36
              Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
              While I won't argue against the idea that some parents put their kids in club sports for status reasons, it is incredibly naive to think that there aren't lots of other reasons why families pay for club sports:

              1) the kid is an athlete, and real athletes seek challenge and competition - even at young ages. Some kids that are dominating rec leagues or travel leagues are happy to be the best player and don't really want to challenge themselves, BUT others do. One of my kids would go crazy if she knew that there were good players in some league that she couldn't take on.

              2) the parents are ex-athletes who have been around organized sports and know how to manage their kids' development. They know that developing a soccer player means pushing the kid outside his/her comfort zone, playing against better athletes in higher-paced games.

              3) some kids grow up playing with a group of friends in little kids soccer and travel teams. When those kids start looking at moving to clubs, they often do it in groups.

              4) recruiting - our oldest kid was recruited by several club coaches at a U-little tournament one Memorial Day weekend. She was big and fast, and comparatively skilled vs. the other kids in her games. At the time, we figured she'd have to move to a club in 3-4 years, but the interest made us start investigating much sooner. BTW - she didn't join any of the clubs that recruited her.

              5) the "pathway" - our kids had a couple of older kids in the neighborhood that were the stars of the HS program in their respective sports. Our kids would hang around with them and learn to play from them. We asked them and their parents how they learned their sports, and figured it might work for our kids as well.

              The OP needs to acknowledge that there are families in our culture that LOVE sports, and their kids often love sports too. When kids are in the backyard kicking a soccer ball around for hours, or playing hoop in the driveway all afternoon, etc., it is NOT about status...
              So there are two OPs. you directly responded to my post, and I responding in support of another that used phrase "Luxury Item". Not sure if that poster has also responded.

              I agree with everything you posted above - no argument. I nor any other poster used the word status. Why do you seem to equate Luxury solely with Status?

              There are so many valid reasons outside of status to play club sports. Just as there are so many reasons I can justify my expenditures on the country club, our 2nd home, and our interesting vacations as aligned with our passions, better health, community involvement, and quality family time. I'm sure you can add more.

              This doesn't change the fact that all of the above, like elite club sports, are Luxury items funded from disposable income. The majority of people who think status plays a role in those decision are mostly on the outside claiming the rest of us do it for status. Taking status out of it, the business of club soccer operates under the same dynamics as other luxury businesses. That's my only point. Brand, performance, quality, experience, etc all play a role.

              Comment


                #37
                Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                I am referring to the uber-expensive "high level" soccer clubs playing in exclusionary leagues like GDA and ECNL - Not lower cost soccer options that are not so exclusionary and therefore not as high status.
                Okay, so the families paying Stars to join an ECNL team and paying for all the travel, etc. are buying a luxury product? What about the kids on the lower level Stars teams, who do little traveling and are paying roughly the same as kids at a "no-name" club?

                The status is meaningful, but so is the payoff for those that wish to participate. My kids would not be at the college she's at and having the college soccer career she's having if it wasn't for the club she played for and the league they played in. Fact.

                Comment


                  #38
                  Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                  So there are two OPs. you directly responded to my post, and I responding in support of another that used phrase "Luxury Item". Not sure if that poster has also responded.

                  I agree with everything you posted above - no argument. I nor any other poster used the word status. Why do you seem to equate Luxury solely with Status?

                  There are so many valid reasons outside of status to play club sports. Just as there are so many reasons I can justify my expenditures on the country club, our 2nd home, and our interesting vacations as aligned with our passions, better health, community involvement, and quality family time. I'm sure you can add more.

                  This doesn't change the fact that all of the above, like elite club sports, are Luxury items funded from disposable income. The majority of people who think status plays a role in those decision are mostly on the outside claiming the rest of us do it for status. Taking status out of it, the business of club soccer operates under the same dynamics as other luxury businesses. That's my only point. Brand, performance, quality, experience, etc all play a role.
                  Okay. We're not in disagreement. I think I get triggered when what I read feels like a broad generalization about motivations, thought processes, etc. Every family has its own truth. Thanks for clarifying.

                  Comment


                    #39
                    Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                    I am referring to the uber-expensive "high level" soccer clubs playing in exclusionary leagues like GDA and ECNL - Not lower cost soccer options that are not so exclusionary and therefore not as high status.
                    But, even those "lower cost" options still don't allow everyone entry.

                    Everyone at a lower league complains about the league above them. And, those who cannot get into any league complains about the lowest of the leagues. So, it doesn't matter where you are and what you spend your money on, someone can't do what you do and has an issue with it.

                    Comment


                      #40
                      Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                      So all club soccer organizations are status brands? I think your brush is way too broad.

                      I'm sure that Stars, NEFC or SSS want their top teams to be seen as elite ("exclusionary") and aspirational to players and families at other clubs or thinking of joining clubs. But are you going to try to convince me that a small local club - created to raise the level of play of the local kids - is a status brand? That's lunacy.

                      ECNL? Yes, its organization and the way it markets itself is all about status, and the clubs that align themselves with the league take advantage of that status to separate themselves from their local non-ECNL competition. That's why they need to be very careful about over-expansion; once everyone is driving a Mercedes it no longer means anything and the snobs need to find a higher brand.
                      Lets put it this way - Cars and Restaurants are both Luxuries that are available to the working class and above. Just as there are multiple segments in those businesses there are multiple segments in youth sports. Some brands are convenience based, some are performance based. etc.

                      Comment


                        #41
                        Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                        I disagree. They are a means to signaling status and that is why plenty (not all) of families pursue deluxe youth soccer. If you play in these leagues, you will find there are a fair number of players that do not intend to pursue college soccer although many do,
                        We're probably just arguing about %'s. For example, I believe that <20% of the families on my kids' teams chose the team primarily for status reasons. The vast majority had development as the priority until age 11-12, and then college opportunities from age 12-16. After 16, I think it was more familiarity and inertia than anything else.

                        As to % of ECNL players that intend to play in college (I don't know enough DA players to comment), I would say the # is 90%.

                        Comment


                          #42
                          Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                          Okay. We're not in disagreement. I think I get triggered when what I read feels like a broad generalization about motivations, thought processes, etc. Every family has its own truth. Thanks for clarifying.
                          Good to know, I sensed we were closer to being on the same page.
                          My comments on Luxury are grounded solely on the business model. In the US the only funding source is Parents. Other countries have different funding sources, and I get triggered by posters who cite models from other countries as exemplars for how the US should operate. The economics are entirely different.

                          Comment


                            #43
                            Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                            But, even those "lower cost" options still don't allow everyone entry.

                            Everyone at a lower league complains about the league above them. And, those who cannot get into any league complains about the lowest of the leagues. So, it doesn't matter where you are and what you spend your money on, someone can't do what you do and has an issue with it.
                            An interesting thing to me is that this conversation never addresses athletic ability. For an activity that requires some level of physical ability, we seem to brush over the idea that there are vast differences between someone seeking to play at the "top" levels vs. someone playing at the "lowest" level. There may be gray areas between the abilities of the lower end of the A team and the upper end of the B team, but top to bottom its a big gap.

                            Comment


                              #44
                              Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                              The entire business model is about status. Absolutely no different form a luxury car or joining a country club. Only this product lets parents pay a fortune to compete fro status through the sports exploits their children.
                              I assume this is the other "Luxury" poster. You and I are NOT on the same page. While it is true that pure luxury brands convey status, that status is pretty transparent and seen by many as conspicuous consumption. Performance typically conveys the most status, and is often directly associated with the luxury brands. The car with bigger engine, fastest times, or the more difficult golf course, etc. In the club soccer world performance still plays a role and it is simply wrong to say that money alone gets a spot on a DA or ECNL team.

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