I'll give you one BTDT. I know of several kids who played for a noted D1 Men's coach from about U14 on up who all the way up to late summer before their senior years were sure they were D1 material. Turned out the best they could do was above average D3 programs. You've been touting the NEFC assistance in recruiting program, so somewhere along the way communication got screwed up or simply did not happen.
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Originally posted by Unregistered View PostWow, I am truly a lucky, or unlucky, guy I guess . In the last 24 hours, I've been accused of being Perspective, BTDT and FM. Hat Trick!
Problem with you people is you treat these issues like politics where they try to jam everyone into 2 distinct groups. Believe it or not, there are people who have views and beliefs on both sides of the club spectrum.
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Unregistered
Originally posted by Unregistered View PostThanks BTNT. Took all of 10 seconds to figure out your latest fiction, and even going along with the set up, it is obviously you congratulating the initial post, inviting something more concrete, which then of course produces the immediate lip service "I don't really have a problem with NEFC" followed by the real objective of getting back to Stars, JD, and the high school deal. Too, too obvious. Keep hacking away. I'll let you know when you really hit one out of the park.
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Unregistered
Originally posted by Unregistered View PostYou're a piece of work. I think NEFC is no different than Stars or Breakers or GPS or whoever. And I also think the anti HS stance is really dumb and nothing more than a money grab. Sorry for not carrying the water, but I am an upperclassman.
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Unregistered
Originally posted by Unregistered View PostI actually have nothing against NEFC. I just think they operate the same as the others - e.g. cater to the top teams and offer more to their best players, etc. - and a lot of what is written here does not acknowledge that. It's a business. Any business that does not promote and fully back their best product is destined to fail. All of the clubs should be transparent of that fact, but given the amount of money involved it is understandable why they are not. Is there a Varsity squad anywhere that is not treated better than the JV and Freshman teams? Doubtful.
On the other hand, I do think that the Stars anti-HS stance is a very questionable tactic though (and it absolutely exists and has for years). I understand the concept fully for the boys side as elite males do have an opportunity to make a living off going pro. Aside from NT females, meaning the real NT not the younger teams, no one in women's pro soccer is making a living off it. Call me old school, but I do think that the social aspect of playing in HS is very important on the girls side. And given the influence of JD, I firmly think he is trying to push this concept throughout the ECNL. If the ECNL were to go to a full year schedule, we will know that he was successful.
Here is the real issue with the high school situation and how the clubs deal with it actually illustrates the differences between them. What happens during the high school years in every club across America is the player intensity level almost evaporates. There are a lot of perfectly valid reasons for why this happens but in a nut shell high school kids just have too much on their plate to be able to just concentrate on soccer.
This begets two real problems in the club soccer world. The players start to stall their development which also stalls the development of the teams. It also starts to hurt the club's reputation because the kids then aren't ready to move on to college because they haven't worked hard enough to prepare for it. Both clubs are clearly dealing with the same issue.
The Stars are addressing the problem by basically trying to put the kids into a more controlled environment. NEFC is trying to address the problem by creating it's IDP program which is a just a little more voluntary approach. The contrast should be apparent. One goes for tight control, the other goes for a more voluntary approach.
The truly interesting thing is they are both having the same problems with these efforts, the kid's still just are not turning out to participate and so neither have actually found the solution yet. My bet is that they both know it at this point.
I actually give both clubs a lot of credit for trying to address the problem. It IS a problem and it really DOES need to solved. I personally think the Stars approach has less odds of being successful simply because they have to fight a whole lot cultural and logistical issues just to set things up so the players might show up. I think that even if they are successful in convincing the kids to quit their high school team they are going see what NEFC is seeing, that the players are still going to skip the practices because of school work or the myriad of other conflicts that a typical high school kid has. That said, I can see fully the logic behind what they are doing and absolutely concur that it is a valid approach.
In the end the "high school" issue is just a smoke screen really and I think that this forum could actually be quite helpful in solving the actual problem by simply educating the parents to the fact that what their high school aged kid is doing for soccer just isn't enough if their kid really does want to be a high level soccer player that goes on to actually play in college.
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Unregistered
Originally posted by Unregistered View PostThere are philosophical and personality differences between all clubs. The divide between the Stars and NEFC is a heck of a lot bigger than you seem to think and I think that is exactly the reason we have so much back and forth between them. They are both hyper competitive clubs who approach things VERY differently. I personally think that one of the big reasons for all rancor is the Stars constituency really doesn't fully appreciate just how MUCH different the approaches are. Half the arguments on this forum come down to the Stars saying things are black and NEFC firing back adamantly saying NO, they are white. The reality is neither are wrong, they just represent different opinions on how to get to the same place.
Here is the real issue with the high school situation and how the clubs deal with it actually illustrates the differences between them. What happens during the high school years in every club across America is the player intensity level almost evaporates. There are a lot of perfectly valid reasons for why this happens but in a nut shell high school kids just have too much on their plate to be able to just concentrate on soccer.
This begets two real problems in the club soccer world. The players start to stall their development which also stalls the development of the teams. It also starts to hurt the club's reputation because the kids then aren't ready to move on to college because they haven't worked hard enough to prepare for it. Both clubs are clearly dealing with the same issue.
The Stars are addressing the problem by basically trying to put the kids into a more controlled environment. NEFC is trying to address the problem by creating it's IDP program which is a just a little more voluntary approach. The contrast should be apparent. One goes for tight control, the other goes for a more voluntary approach.
The truly interesting thing is they are both having the same problems with these efforts, the kid's still just are not turning out to participate and so neither have actually found the solution yet. My bet is that they both know it at this point.
I actually give both clubs a lot of credit for trying to address the problem. It IS a problem and it really DOES need to solved. I personally think the Stars approach has less odds of being successful simply because they have to fight a whole lot cultural and logistical issues just to set things up so the players might show up. I think that even if they are successful in convincing the kids to quit their high school team they are going see what NEFC is seeing, that the players are still going to skip the practices because of school work or the myriad of other conflicts that a typical high school kid has. That said, I can see fully the logic behind what they are doing and absolutely concur that it is a valid approach.
In the end the "high school" issue is just a smoke screen really and I think that this forum could actually be quite helpful in solving the actual problem by simply educating the parents to the fact that what their high school aged kid is doing for soccer just isn't enough if their kid really does want to be a high level soccer player that goes on to actually play in college.
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Unregistered
Originally posted by Unregistered View PostI'll give you one BTDT. I know of several kids who played for a noted D1 Men's coach from about U14 on up who all the way up to late summer before their senior years were sure they were D1 material. Turned out the best they could do was above average D3 programs. You've been touting the NEFC assistance in recruiting program, so somewhere along the way communication got screwed up or simply did not happen.
I don't trust any single coach for that specific reason and that is precisely why I have educated myself about the world of club soccer. I've seen coaches string families along way too many times for my personal taste so I actually operate with a buyer beware mentality and don't really give the "club" much credit for anything. What I look for is the right "people" in the club and I make sure I understand what they are all about before I go charging ahead following their lead.
Ultimately all of this all comes back to the parents though and I have just seen too many of them sit passively watching a coach jump their kid through hoops in service of that coach's personal ambitions. To protect against the sort of problem above I do what I call "triangulating" opinions where I confirm one coaches opinions with at least 2 others before I accept it. That is one of the reasons why I am a big fan of ODP because it gives you access to people outside your club and different opinions. My advice is you can't make the club more important than your kid and trust them to do what is right for yours.
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Unregistered
Originally posted by Unregistered View PostMuch better post BTDT. The one problem with it is that, as you so often do, you presume to be the person who can present the views and reasons from both sides. You want to control the narrative, even from the Stars' supposed point of view. That's not fair. That would be like all of the participants at the next Republican convention having liberal Dems for their keynote speakers and accepting the Dems narrative of who the Republicans are. You presume to speak for and be the distillery and advice-giver for too many people.
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Unregistered
Many ECNL clubs are not allowing their players to play HS- ie Southern Cal., Eclipse in Chicago area. The trend will only get greater.
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Unregistered
Originally posted by Unregistered View PostThen why are the Stars pushing the high school thing? What is the logic if it weren't to solve the basic problem that once kids hit hs they start slacking off?
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Unregistered
It is a nation wide trend with ECNL teams not allowing there players to play HS- ie Southern CA, eclipse from Chicago.
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Unregistered
Originally posted by Unregistered View PostBigger question with both clubs is what is the actual motivation for their move? Is it really for the benefit of the individual player or is it to better prepare the teams so they have better results?
The local ECNL and NPL clubs understand what it takes to compete successfully at national level events, such as at the ECNL Championships or NPL Finals, and probably rightly are perceiving that it takes more than a partial year commitment to the club environment if you hope to have success in those forums, against the big CA and mid-West clubs. Locally, the Stars and NEFC have gotten out in front of the Breakers when it comes to this, and to the extent the Stars or NEFC are successful with one or the other of their approaches, the Breakers will be faced with the decision to either follow, or stick to their guns and essentially concede that space to their local ECNL rival, Stars.
The other poster pointed out the problem with NEFC's more voluntary approach to elite training during the HS season, which is when push comes to shove, the kids are tired from the pace of HS while simultaneously addressing other priorities like homework, part time jobs and socializing.
In my mind, the real solution for the very high level player with NT or professional ambitions is the Academy model -- in the US this means outfits like IMG -- but in Europe there are all the well known youth academies (many of which are associated with the professional-level club teams in EPL, Serie A, La Liga, Bundesliga, etc.) where academics clearly take a back seat to soccer development. That is still a fringe model in the US, however, as there is a longer tradition of putting academics ahead of athletics here, followed by at least some college, even for kids who aren't all that academically inclined.
I don't know what he solution is, but I do know US Soccer seems to be trying to figure it out.
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Unregistered
Originally posted by Unregistered View PostIt is a nation wide trend with ECNL teams not allowing there players to play HS- ie Southern CA, eclipse from Chicago.
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Unregistered
Post #275 has some seriously flawed reasoning. Paragraphs two and three in particular are incongruent because the premise asserted in the second is then ignored in the third from a logical perspective.
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