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Is Soccer a game or sport? - Friendly Arguments Only

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    #31
    Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
    First I would like to admit I like watching games on TV. I've been to a couple international friendly games in Massachusetts, Montreal, a couple MLS games for NYC and a few NY Cosmos Games. I love watching my boys play and seeing them have a good time (winning or losing) and learning about teamwork and working with others It brings me joy.

    However, I have never considered soccer a "real sport". It is a beautiful game. But just a game only. It does not come close to the rigors of a real sport such as wrestling, boxing, track & Field to name a few.

    There are 3 main criteria that must be considered in order to classify an activity as a sport.

    1) There must be a direct conflict between 2 opponents.
    2) If it involves a ball, its a game (every argument has at least one exception, the exception goes to singles tennis). Just about every game played involves a ball. In boxing, wrestling, tennis, track and field no one has ever asked "what time is the game" its always referred to as a "match". Foot Ball, Basket Ball & Soccer is always referred to as a "game".
    3) The rules in a real sport cannot be discretionary in any way. How many soccer games have we attended where the referee from one game to the next constantly fouls up the rules on pushing, tackling, fouls etc? Referees take it upon themselves to make up the rules as they go along. In Track or swimming, there is no discretion on the rules. You make it to the finish line first....you win.

    Sorry for offending anyone....you will get over it....or not.

    Stupid Post- reaaaalllyyyy stupid post- It's the biggest SPORT in the world. No other SPORT can tough it's fan base.

    Comment


      #32
      Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
      There are 3 main criteria that must be considered in order to classify an activity as a sport.

      1) There must be a direct conflict between 2 opponents.
      Soccer has this. It is a conflict between 2 teams. You can argue that track has no direct conflict between opponents, but rather the conflict is against the clock.

      2) If it involves a ball, its a game (every argument has at least one exception, the exception goes to singles tennis). Just about every game played involves a ball. In boxing, wrestling, tennis, track and field no one has ever asked "what time is the game" its always referred to as a "match". Foot Ball, Basket Ball & Soccer is always referred to as a "game".
      I have never heard of a "Track Match". It is usually referred to as a "Track Meet".
      Everywhere else in the world, it is a "Soccer Match". In track and field, a shot-put is technically a ball. There are also poles, discuses, hammers, and javelins.

      3) The rules in a real sport cannot be discretionary in any way. How many soccer games have we attended where the referee from one game to the next constantly fouls up the rules on pushing, tackling, fouls etc? Referees take it upon themselves to make up the rules as they go along. In Track or swimming, there is no discretion on the rules. You make it to the finish line first....you win.
      A boxing match can end at the referee's discretion. Tennis allows discretion by an umpire to determine what is "abusive language". In swimming, there are rules about proper stroke form that can be applied by discretion of an official. Regarding your examples in soccer, the rules you cite are not discretionary, but rather they are poor/inconsistent application of the rules by the ref.

      Comment


        #33
        Is Soccer a game or sport? - Friendly Arguments Only

        Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
        Regarding #1, the only requirement was "Conflict between two opponents." Soccer is a contact sport, there is always conflict - that one was the easiest to rebut. This is apparently a game to you because you have decided to change the rules :). To continue with the boxing analogy, what is the conflict, the punching (which is what I thought you were referring to), or all of the actions leading up to each punch, the matching of the wits (the fake with the left, the movement of the head, the step forward or to the side, and then the haymaker with the right)? In any event, soccer contains both; there are clashes all over the field, and then there is the team, working from the back, maintaining possession, applying pressure to see if opponent will break and then the finale, a shot on goal, if everything else has worked. Soccer is a classic weak link sport, more often than not, the entire team has to work together to get a score, one weak link in the chain and the attack fails. If your son or daughter is on a team where the keeper or last line of defense is regularly blamed for goals, they are on the wrong team, mistakes happen all over the field which can eventually lead to a score.

        You do know that equestrian events were included in the first Olympics; if the horse fell over and died during an event, they could certainly blame the horse, or the horse's trainer or whoever fed the horse the hemlock, and not the driver. Of course drivers needed skill, to handle horse and conditions of race (is it an oval, is it a straightaway), but generally the biggest horse wins if all else is equal, taking it completely out of the hands of a driver.

        I don't know why soccer wasn't included in ancient Olympics, I don't think there were any team sports in ancient Olympics, which may be the reason; I thought games were to crown individual champions (noone cared about second or third then either).
        Ancient Greeks/Romans played soccer as well (of course not as organized as it is today). They stuffed a sheeps stomach and kicked it around as a game.

        Comment


          #34
          Is Soccer a game or sport? - Friendly Arguments Only

          Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
          Soccer has this. It is a conflict between 2 teams. You can argue that track has no direct conflict between opponents, but rather the conflict is against the clock.



          I have never heard of a "Track Match". It is usually referred to as a "Track Meet".
          Everywhere else in the world, it is a "Soccer Match". In track and field, a shot-put is technically a ball. There are also poles, discuses, hammers, and javelins.


          A boxing match can end at the referee's discretion. Tennis allows discretion by an umpire to determine what is "abusive language". In swimming, there are rules about proper stroke form that can be applied by discretion of an official. Regarding your examples in soccer, the rules you cite are not discretionary, but rather they are poor/inconsistent application of the rules by the ref.
          I'm Back, :)

          #1 A shot put is not a ball by any means...it is a device used to measure strength in a true matchup between two athletes....you do not play with a shot put, you don't play catch with a shot put and you don't kick a shot put.

          #2 A referee does not decide the winner or loser in a boxing match or MMA (he is strictly there to enforce the rules and protect the competitors for safety. There is a panel of judges who counts punches landed that decide who wins (similar to international wrestling where you need 2/3 of the referee confirmation to award points). Getting the correct score is so important in a real sport, the rules dictate multiple judges to arrive with the correct decision for the victor.

          #3 American Football uses video tape to replay the action so referees can make a better decision....(What a great idea for soccer!!!!!) I think video replay would help soccer be classified as a sport under criteria #3 because now the rules are not discretionary because of the use of video review. (unfortunately both football and soccer would still not be classified as sports due to criteria #2)

          Comment


            #35
            Is Soccer a game or sport? - Friendly Arguments Only

            Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
            Stupid Post- reaaaalllyyyy stupid post- It's the biggest SPORT in the world. No other SPORT can tough it's fan base.

            Soccer is the biggest GAME in the world without question!!!!!!!!! :)

            Games like basketball, soccer, football don't belong in the same sentence that includes the words like "tough" and "sport". :)

            Comment


              #36
              Is Soccer a game or sport? - Friendly Arguments Only

              Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
              1. Direct conflict; not sure what soccer games you watch, but there is direct conflict between participants in every soccer game that I watch, only some of which end up as yellow or red cards.

              2. It is a little bush league to disqualify entire team "pursuits" in your "criteria", and some of your other disqualifications are wonky as well - it depends if you call it a match or game? What if i told you I use those terms interchangeably, then I guess it is okay for me to believe soccer and the rest are sports, or to believe that there are no sports at all (allegory of the cave anyone).

              It feels like what you meant to say is that sports can only involve individual pursuits, against a competitor or a clock (which supports certain track events and disqualifies others by the way, and doubles tennis - what a conundrum).

              3. Imagine this, beginning of a track race, gun goes off and one competitor turns and punches someone in the face, then goes on to win the race. They got to the finish line first, did they win, or would they get disqualified? Less egregious, a trip occurs during a race, one competitor strays into another persons lane - same question, does result stand? What about shoulders bumping while both people were in there lane, with arms flailing across lane on both sides, one falls and the other wins - same question; you see, this is where a judge's discretion will come in to determine outcome. There are rules in every sport, or game, and discretion as well; try wearing shorts up to your chest in a boxing match, you will be disqualified, but wear them midway up your stomach, and ref will make the call. Do a search for rules of boxing, ref, manager, physician "discretion" is permitted throughout the rules.

              Regarding your complaint regarding soccer referees, inconsistent reffing is not an indication of discretion run amok, just bad reffing.

              As to above, its Friday.

              Bad Reffing? If soccer is so important why not have video review? Why not have a panel of judges to confirm if the correct call is made? This is so important in real sports like MMA, Wrestling and boxing to make sure we come up with a true winner. In soccer, a team can win or lose by the referees discretion. There is a lot we can do but obviously its not that important.....you know why? its only a GAME.

              Comment


                #37
                Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                I'm Back, :)



                #2 A referee does not decide the winner or loser in a boxing match or MMA (he is strictly there to enforce the rules and protect the competitors for safety. There is a panel of judges who counts punches landed that decide who wins (similar to international wrestling where you need 2/3 of the referee confirmation to award points). Getting the correct score is so important in a real sport, the rules dictate multiple judges to arrive with the correct decision for the victor.
                No, a judge does

                Comment


                  #38
                  Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                  I'm Back, :)

                  #1 A shot put is not a ball by any means...it is a device used to measure strength in a true matchup between two athletes....you do not play with a shot put, you don't play catch with a shot put and you don't kick a shot put.
                  Ok. But shot put does not really pit two athletes against each other. It pits an athlete against a tape-measure.

                  #2 A referee does not decide the winner or loser in a boxing match or MMA (he is strictly there to enforce the rules and protect the competitors for safety. There is a panel of judges who counts punches landed that decide who wins (similar to international wrestling where you need 2/3 of the referee confirmation to award points). Getting the correct score is so important in a real sport, the rules dictate multiple judges to arrive with the correct decision for the victor.
                  A boxing referee has the power to stop a match and declare a winner in order to protect a boxer for safety. It is definitely a discretionary decision. Regarding counting landing punches, the fact that the judges all sit together on one side of the ring pretty much guarantees their inaccuracy.

                  #3 American Football uses video tape to replay the action so referees can make a better decision....(What a great idea for soccer!!!!!) I think video replay would help soccer be classified as a sport under criteria #3 because now the rules are not discretionary because of the use of video review. (unfortunately both football and soccer would still not be classified as sports due to criteria #2)
                  Professional soccer uses VAR (video-assisted referee). It's impact was on full display in the last World Cup. Btw - American football has a lot of discretionary rules; those are the ones that you see every weekend when the commentators say that a play is not reviewable.

                  Comment


                    #39
                    Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                    Soccer is the biggest GAME in the world without question!!!!!!!!! :)

                    Games like basketball, soccer, football don't belong in the same sentence that includes the words like "tough" and "sport". :)
                    Sports are games that require athleticism and skill.

                    Comment


                      #40
                      Is Soccer a game or sport? - Friendly Arguments Only

                      Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                      Sports are games that require athleticism and skill.

                      Never said that basketball, soccer, football players are not athletic and skillfull. I think they are perhaps the most high level athletes around....As a pro player they are the most gifted and talented athletes / human beings on the planet (along of course with a pro boxer, wrestler/MMA fighter).

                      However i don't see how games like basketball, soccer and football any of these meets all 3 criteria to be classified as a sport....I also believe that white liberal/hillary supporters will try to spin any of the criteria to so that there favorite game can be classified as a sport. (OMG how could it not? wa wa...boo hoo).

                      Personally, even though pro soccer/basketball/football players are incredible athletes they are all prima donna, whiny bitches. They will create an insurmountable amount of drama over a hang nail....gimme a break.

                      Comment


                        #41
                        Is Soccer a game or sport? - Friendly Arguments Only

                        Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                        Ok. But shot put does not really pit two athletes against each other. It pits an athlete against a tape-measure.



                        A boxing referee has the power to stop a match and declare a winner in order to protect a boxer for safety. It is definitely a discretionary decision. Regarding counting landing punches, the fact that the judges all sit together on one side of the ring pretty much guarantees their inaccuracy.



                        Professional soccer uses VAR (video-assisted referee). It's impact was on full display in the last World Cup. Btw - American football has a lot of discretionary rules; those are the ones that you see every weekend when the commentators say that a play is not reviewable.
                        You don't need a vote to see that someone can't defend themselves any longer in a fight.
                        You also don't need much training to see that the other fighter is already unconcious or his hands are no longer up to defend himself while he/her is taking repeated blows...You don't need discretion to stop a fight...It is evident and the referees do the right thing to protect the fighters.

                        Comment


                          #42
                          Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                          Never said that basketball, soccer, football players are not athletic and skillfull. I think they are perhaps the most high level athletes around....As a pro player they are the most gifted and talented athletes / human beings on the planet (along of course with a pro boxer, wrestler/MMA fighter).

                          However i don't see how games like basketball, soccer and football any of these meets all 3 criteria to be classified as a sport....I also believe that white liberal/hillary supporters will try to spin any of the criteria to so that there favorite game can be classified as a sport. (OMG how could it not? wa wa...boo hoo).

                          Personally, even though pro soccer/basketball/football players are incredible athletes they are all prima donna, whiny bitches. They will create an insurmountable amount of drama over a hang nail....gimme a break.
                          Not sure if you are the OP, but you can't see it because you don't want to see it; the original three criteria? Congrats, whoever came up with those just classified Chess as a sport:

                          There are 3 main criteria that must be considered in order to classify an activity as a sport.

                          1) There must be a direct conflict between 2 opponents. CHECK (does not have to be direct physical contact apparently, if track is considered a sport)

                          2) If it involves a ball, its a game (every argument has at least one exception, the exception goes to singles tennis). Just about every game played involves a ball. In boxing, wrestling, tennis, track and field no one has ever asked "what time is the game" its always referred to as a "match". Foot Ball, Basket Ball & Soccer is always referred to as a "game".
                          CHECK, nothing to see here, this is less a criteria and more of a restriction, but does not apply to CHESS (or anything other than games that involve a ball).

                          3) The rules in a real sport cannot be discretionary in any way. How many soccer games have we attended where the referee from one game to the next constantly fouls up the rules on pushing, tackling, fouls etc? Referees take it upon themselves to make up the rules as they go along. In Track or swimming, there is no discretion on the rules. You make it to the finish line first....you win. CHECK The rules of Chess are strict, with little in the way of interpretation, so that is covered as well.

                          Nothing against Chess, is sometimes fun to watch or play, but if you really think that is a sport (and apparently you do) and soccer or basketball isn't (apparently you do), then you are in the minority.

                          Comment


                            #43
                            Is Soccer a game or sport? - Friendly Arguments Only

                            Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                            Not sure if you are the OP, but you can't see it because you don't want to see it; the original three criteria? Congrats, whoever came up with those just classified Chess as a sport:

                            There are 3 main criteria that must be considered in order to classify an activity as a sport.

                            1) There must be a direct conflict between 2 opponents. CHECK (does not have to be direct physical contact apparently, if track is considered a sport)

                            2) If it involves a ball, its a game (every argument has at least one exception, the exception goes to singles tennis). Just about every game played involves a ball. In boxing, wrestling, tennis, track and field no one has ever asked "what time is the game" its always referred to as a "match". Foot Ball, Basket Ball & Soccer is always referred to as a "game".
                            CHECK, nothing to see here, this is less a criteria and more of a restriction, but does not apply to CHESS (or anything other than games that involve a ball).

                            3) The rules in a real sport cannot be discretionary in any way. How many soccer games have we attended where the referee from one game to the next constantly fouls up the rules on pushing, tackling, fouls etc? Referees take it upon themselves to make up the rules as they go along. In Track or swimming, there is no discretion on the rules. You make it to the finish line first....you win. CHECK The rules of Chess are strict, with little in the way of interpretation, so that is covered as well.

                            Nothing against Chess, is sometimes fun to watch or play, but if you really think that is a sport (and apparently you do) and soccer or basketball isn't (apparently you do), then you are in the minority.

                            I'm fine with that...great minds are usually in the minority and the people with great minds are almost always ahead of there time like Galileo, Magellan, Aristotle and Malcolm X (yea that is from left field but all true, yes true)....thanks for the compliment and perhaps strengthening my argument. :)

                            If your kids are playing this weekend (as mine are)...best of luck & have fun with it all.

                            Comment


                              #44
                              Is Soccer a game or sport? - Friendly Arguments Only

                              Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                              Not sure if you are the OP, but you can't see it because you don't want to see it; the original three criteria? Congrats, whoever came up with those just classified Chess as a sport:

                              There are 3 main criteria that must be considered in order to classify an activity as a sport.

                              1) There must be a direct conflict between 2 opponents. CHECK (does not have to be direct physical contact apparently, if track is considered a sport)

                              2) If it involves a ball, its a game (every argument has at least one exception, the exception goes to singles tennis). Just about every game played involves a ball. In boxing, wrestling, tennis, track and field no one has ever asked "what time is the game" its always referred to as a "match". Foot Ball, Basket Ball & Soccer is always referred to as a "game".
                              CHECK, nothing to see here, this is less a criteria and more of a restriction, but does not apply to CHESS (or anything other than games that involve a ball).

                              3) The rules in a real sport cannot be discretionary in any way. How many soccer games have we attended where the referee from one game to the next constantly fouls up the rules on pushing, tackling, fouls etc? Referees take it upon themselves to make up the rules as they go along. In Track or swimming, there is no discretion on the rules. You make it to the finish line first....you win. CHECK The rules of Chess are strict, with little in the way of interpretation, so that is covered as well.

                              Nothing against Chess, is sometimes fun to watch or play, but if you really think that is a sport (and apparently you do) and soccer or basketball isn't (apparently you do), then you are in the minority.
                              Why does a sport or game limited to just physical activity? I've played soccer as well...holding onto a 1-0 lead is perhaps more taxing on the athlete mentally than physically (sticking to your game plan when the other team changes tactics on you takes an immense amount of discipline and mental awareness, its super exhausting as we all know). Yes, I would would classify chess as a sport, its a sport of wit and mental superiority. (and as you said it meets the criteria). I wonder if the pro level coaches are play chess and if they are very good? I would think that they are and that they are very good.

                              Comment


                                #45
                                Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                                Never said that basketball, soccer, football players are not athletic and skillfull. I think they are perhaps the most high level athletes around....As a pro player they are the most gifted and talented athletes / human beings on the planet (along of course with a pro boxer, wrestler/MMA fighter).

                                However i don't see how games like basketball, soccer and football any of these meets all 3 criteria to be classified as a sport....I also believe that white liberal/hillary supporters will try to spin any of the criteria to so that there favorite game can be classified as a sport. (OMG how could it not? wa wa...boo hoo).

                                Personally, even though pro soccer/basketball/football players are incredible athletes they are all prima donna, whiny bitches. They will create an insurmountable amount of drama over a hang nail....gimme a break.
                                Not sure why you think your 3 criteria are the defining standard of sports, but of the three, the only one that soccer/basketball/football doesn't adhere to is #2 (it involves a ball). And then right after that, you list tennis as a sport. Go figure.

                                Tennis players are among the most whiney. They can't handle cheering/heckling from the fans during a match to the point where a ref will throw out a spectator for making too much noise.

                                Comment

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