The state of travel soccer

[Unregistered]

Sounds like my hometown. Not trumbull. Farther north up 95. We have a dimwit like described. Last 6 years this guy drove our program into the ground. My boys left a long time ago

Lots of this going around. Some worse than others

[Unregistered]

There are families out there that don't want premier. Travel is sufficient enough for them. Younger kids shouldn't even be traveling all over the place. Our travel program get better when they brought on better board members who don't play politics, hired an actual DOC who brought on some decent coaches (no parent coaches unless they are certified, just managers). Yes it costs more than rec but much less than premier. It helped keep families in the program and brought some disillusioned with crap premier clubs back into the fold. Trying to make a program something it isn't and won't ever be will the death of it.

It does not seem like rocket science for organizations to offer decent travel training. The E course used to basically each you to plan our a session and how to engage everyone for a 90 minute practice by progressing from simple to more complex to small sided games to finish it out. I would think the new replacement courses would follow suit. The internet has an amazing amount of drills on a crapload of topics. Yet other travel coaches my kids have had over the years will do a uninspired footskills drill for 60 straight minutes with the kids fooling around the whole time. Or the whole practice will be a large sided scrimmage with no advice given or stoppages when kids do something wrong. Or the coaches do useless drills a ulittle like practice throw ins or cover trick plays during practice when the large majority of the kids don't have basic footskills or can't trap or make a good first touch. It's no mystery why the teams cannot compete or lose every game or its just 30-40 minutes of uninspired no possession soccer at the travel level sometimes. A decent DOC who actually got out on the field M-F and offered feedback to coaches and teams who needed it would go a long way.

[Unregistered]

And where is this magical town called "wonderland"..... I mean "travel land"... I mean travel soccer

It doesn’t take a whole lot to make a team travel+. If your town has particularly precocious bunch of ULittles, take them on the road for a few different tournaments and stick them in CCSL 1st or 2nd division. That’s more than enough competition for most town teams, particularly past the U11 stage.

[Unregistered]

There are families out there that don't want premier. Travel is sufficient enough for them. Younger kids shouldn't even be traveling all over the place. Our travel program get better when they brought on better board members who don't play politics, hired an actual DOC who brought on some decent coaches (no parent coaches unless they are certified, just managers). Yes it costs more than rec but much less than premier. It helped keep families in the program and brought some disillusioned with crap premier clubs back into the fold. Trying to make a program something it isn't and won't ever be will the death of it.

This is the formula for absolutely horrific high school teams. Travel is fine for a lot of players but the kids with potential need to get out and plays with other strong players.

Avon is a great example of when packs of kids are held in travel.

[Unregistered]

Is it true West Hartford is going the Simsbury model and making families choose Travel or Premier??

I dont think West Hartford "makes" them do that. Families that can do it do. WH has kids at FSA, OW and CFC North. If the kid is good they play on a higher level premier team. If they are not so good, they play on the C team at FSA. Mom still gets the magnet and can say her kid plays for FSA. Soccer in West Hartford is awful.

Same as it ever was.

[Unregistered]

This is the formula for absolutely horrific high school teams. Travel is fine for a lot of players but the kids with potential need to get out and plays with other strong players.

Avon is a great example of when packs of kids are held in travel.

I think 100% of Avon's varsity HS team starters are club players. A lot of them came from PSE and FSA C team but still, ----not travel.

[Unregistered]

This is the formula for absolutely horrific high school teams. Travel is fine for a lot of players but the kids with potential need to get out and plays with other strong players.

Avon is a great example of when packs of kids are held in travel.

OP here - the town doesn't "hold" kids. The ones who are good enough still go to the better premier clubs. They still lose some who shouldn't but want to try premier - they end up at the more pop-up premiers or never play at the better clubs and more often return to travel after 1-2 years. Believe me parents aren't shy and do what they want to do. But at least there's a better option for the families that want to stay in travel - kids are happy, parents are happy not to pay for premier clubs and travel all over. Both my kids did travel for a few years and then moved up and it was fully supported by their coaches at the time. Another town nearby absolutely pressures kids to stay. Not surprisingly the HS teams don't do very well. We're not a big enough town that the HS teams will be filled with all club players. We have a group of good club players, some ok club players and the rest travel players/multisport athletes. If that travel group is better trained that helps a lot. Our teams do pretty well each year.

As someone said it isn't rocket science to improve travel. It takes leadership, a good plan and good execution of the plan. We had a terrible board before and they nearly destroyed the travel program.

[Unregistered]

Post from a thread in CT

OP here - the town doesn't "hold" kids. The ones who are good enough still go to the better premier clubs. They still lose some who shouldn't but want to try premier - they end up at the more pop-up premiers or never play at the better clubs and more often return to travel after 1-2 years. Believe me parents aren't shy and do what they want to do. But at least there's a better option for the families that want to stay in travel - kids are happy, parents are happy not to pay for premier clubs and travel all over. Both my kids did travel for a few years and then moved up and it was fully supported by their coaches at the time. Another town nearby absolutely pressures kids to stay. Not surprisingly the HS teams don't do very well. We're not a big enough town that the HS teams will be filled with all club players. We have a group of good club players, some ok club players and the rest travel players/multisport athletes. If that travel group is better trained that helps a lot. Our teams do pretty well each year.

As someone said it isn't rocket science to improve travel. It takes leadership, a good plan and good execution of the plan. We had a terrible board before and they nearly destroyed the travel program.

I just cut and pasted this diatribe that speaks a lot of truth. Just sharing. The topic was on the ability for town teams and lower level club teams to field full rosters across the ages.

_____________

Hello everyone who has participated on this thread. I've read the thread from beginning to end twice, and I like the content (whether I agree or disagree) as its a very relevant topic and some of the ideas shared and discussed here are real, regardless how it unfolds from here.

That said, I would like to interject and share my thoughts. They are as I said my thoughts, and that makes them neither right nor wrong, just my ideas after 15 years in youth soccer. I've coached at the REC level, town travel level, club level, and have been an administer at the REC level, and Club level. I now participate at the MLS level as an administrator. I've lived in southern CT for the past 17 years. I have children who currently play the game at the Club level for a DA club, one in the USSDA, and one soon to be of age for that to begin (and yet to be determined if they make that team when that time comes.

I say all of this because the more I share about who I am, the easier it is for you all to digest my thoughts as a collection of being involved in the sport, a parent of players, and a shape crafter of the system we currently see today.

What changed so quickly, somewhat recently, has been the PRIVATE CLUB involvement at the younger ages. Prior to their jump into the sub U-13 age group, town travel was the best game in town. Since the move to starting at U-8 at the private club level, there are YEARS of town travel being sacrificed because parents believe that the training at the Club level is better, that the talent at the club level is better, and that in order to give their perceived super star child the best chance at reaching their potential, they need to be at the Club level and will sacrifice their family vacation to pay that bill.

....and they are right!

Whether it be by design or chance, the evolution of this landscape has the more talented athletes gravitating towards the private club arena. Of course that isn't an absolute result, its just a more often then not result. The ones being a little left behind are the talented minorities. That said, most club teams have at least 2 scholarships per team, and at the DA level there are nearly 1/2 of the roster available for that. So as the costs increase for the private club option, so to do the scholarship dollars appropriated to it. There is more ground to be made up, but there IS progress.

When stronger players practice together, it allows the coaches to craft their sessions to a higher level. Its like a math class with smarter students, it allows for a quicker progression of material and complexity.

Because of the $ involved, and there is money involved, the stronger coaches gravitate towards club as well. They can earn $12,000 to $17,000 per team they coach, and the town environment can't support that. That is the economic landscape, and that is not going to change. What IS going to change is the number of clubs that can survive in this environment, and so the number of teams where these positions are available will diminish in time. Those jobs will be coveted. But those stronger coaches are STRONGER. Its their career, not just a job. They work hard, they are evaluated on the quality of their sessions, and are held to a standard with that oversight.

The 'elite' nature of town travel is diminished greatly, and the elite nature of the private clubs has diminished as well. As the expansion of teams/clubs has saturated the area in recent years, the quality of the players diminishes at the depth space of the roster. That will continue to evolve with some of the historically stronger clubs suffering as well. That may mean CFC looses some teams, that may mean Beachside looses some teams. Shoreline has already lost teams (and almost their entire Northern branch).

It seems that the DA Club level is stronger though, there are always a lot of talent finding its way there. Whether you are a supporter of the boys DA, the GDA, or the ECNL, strength finds strength. This can be a positive for the development of the sport, but also displacing for players (and lets be honest, they are kids and players) as they get displaced in the 12-15 year age level when teams consolidate and core talent matriculates to fewer clubs/programs; that will NOT change.

So the onus falls on you, the parents. Do you GIVE IT A GO, and send your 9 year old to private club, not knowing whether they emerge from that 4 year tunnel on the inside looking in, or do you wait until they mature and develop into the player they become and MANAGE that development process on your own knowing that the town travel environment/coaching is at a standard below that of the private club experience? That is the question that I believe should occupy the discussion at some level with parents.

There ARE developments that will ease this issue in the coming years. First is that DA clubs will be doing away with their premier teams, freeing up entire rosters to either move back towards town teams, or to participate at the club level at non DA clubs. This will have a ripple effect as players who were previously on a Shoreline or CFC (boys), Chelsea Piers or any other private club, may get displaced by DA club players who just missed the DA team roster. That in turn releases other players to return to the town. Although this process will take a few years to materialize in full, it will begin this fall and should gain speed each year thereafter.

In the end, our regional contribution to US soccer has and will continue to improve. Progress can sometimes be difficult to see, and can also be disruptive during that transition.

I've said to much already, happy to continue this thread and respond to well thought out follow ups.

[Unregistered]

Pretty long winded but also pretty thoughtful. I think the landscape is still shifting quite a bit in youth soccer. I do believe DA and GDA (to a lesser extent) will ultimately be successful and will attract quality players. For many others playing Premier and HS will still be a great experience and will have quality players.

The two things I think really needs to evolve (and the market will likely make it happen) is that Town programs need to stop trying to act as Premier (paid coaches, lots of travel, higher costs) and bad Premier programs need to be forced out of existence.

I live in Guilford. To play on the competitive town travel team it is now $700 per year and that is only for Fall and Spring (no Winter). Way too much for a town program and the coaching and competitive level varies a great deal. The local Premier options for us in this area are SCP, Shoreline FC and Rush. We also have families travelling to CFC, FSA, Oakwood, Ginga and Southeast SC. The 3 local ones, SCP, Shoreline FC and Rush, cost between $1,300 and $1,800 for their programs depending on the age. The town option does not include Winter so when factoring costs the town option is not great value.

As for Premier quality Shoreline FC is poor. SCP has diminished greatly in the last 6-7 years but still has some decent players and teams. That leaves Rush as probably the strongest local option in this area with good coaches and competitive state level teams. Of course, families will still drive longer distances for more established and recognizable names. Some of which are stronger and some not much better than Shoreline FC.

My only advice when making a decision, talk to people that know the landscape and do your due diligence.

[Unregistered]

Have non-MLS clubs been informed that they will be doing away with their premiere teams? Because that is going to put everyone out of business.

[Unregistered]

Doing away with Premier

Have non-MLS clubs been informed that they will be doing away with their premiere teams? Because that is going to put everyone out of business.

The DA clubs are doing away with Premier teams at the DA ages. Its up to each club to announce that when they want, and they may not announce it all.... .just do it.

The effects will be gradual ... but real.

I think in fact it will just further separate MLS teams, DA teams, and all the other clubs who participate in premier soccer (NPL or other leagues).

[Unregistered]

The DA clubs are doing away with Premier teams at the DA ages. Its up to each club to announce that when they want, and they may not announce it all.... .just do it.

The effects will be gradual ... but real.

I think in fact it will just further separate MLS teams, DA teams, and all the other clubs who participate in premier soccer (NPL or other leagues).

Says who? Many DA clubs have premier teams - some are better than others. USSF can't start dictating how clubs run their non DA teams. If a club can run NPL or whatever that's their call based on their finances etc. Now if market forces in a local area means they can't run premier teams (BS is a good example ) that's the market deciding. But plenty of bigger and better managed clubs that will want to keep non DA teams running. They're businesses, it brings in revenue, and often times the revenuehelps them lower DA fees likes they're supposed to.

[Unregistered]

Its just not true.....

Says who? Many DA clubs have premier teams - some are better than others. USSF can't start dictating how clubs run their non DA teams. If a club can run NPL or whatever that's their call based on their finances etc. Now if market forces in a local area means they can't run premier teams (BS is a good example ) that's the market deciding. But plenty of bigger and better managed clubs that will want to keep non DA teams running. They're businesses, it brings in revenue, and often times the revenuehelps them lower DA fees likes they're supposed to.

I thought that as well, but once I had the opportunity to examine the books ... it doesn't work out that way. The MARGINAL revenue doesn't offset the administration and operational requirements to run it.

DA teams will faze out their premier teams at DA age groups. It will be a further extension of the pyramid structure with MANY teams at younger ages, all filtering into DA teams and nothing else.

It will be displacing, but it will make playing for DA clubs MEAN something .... and that is the route that they will go.

Its not a debate, I'm not guessing. This is happening.

[Unregistered]

Good chat. Some thoughts.

I don't buy your use of the term, "private club."

Many traditional town-based, CJSA-based, recreational and classic travel clubs are not owned or run by the town but are actually run by private non-profits.

I see what you are trying to do, so I would say this. Classic travel and rec. soccer, where they exist together, are travel and rec. These are often geographically limited for recruiting by league rules. We can call these "town clubs," though we recognize the name is imprecise.

Then, there is premier. Premier has sub categories, such as pop-up premier. These are small clubs run by one or two dedicated personalities and feature a very few teams some of which only exist because of double rostering. These clubs might disappear when the personality running it moves on. Then, there is Academy, ECNL, and potentially NPL premier. These are long-lived premier clubs with numerous teams and tiers of development, such as A, B, and C teams. Then, there are premier teams, which are long lived but not top-league, such as CFC Wolves.

So, I would say there are "town clubs" and "premier clubs."

When you said the following, "What changed so quickly, somewhat recently, has been the PRIVATE CLUB involvement at the younger ages.", most of us recognized as early as 2001 that this was inevitable and it has taken 15 years, but the premier clubs have reached out to younger and younger age groups, and to recreational-quality players, as a means of padding revenue. This was always foreseen and in the cards, so it's not a sudden thing.

Diminishing quality of teams and clubs has also always been in the cards. As more and more clubs come into being, stronger players get distributed more and less concentrated. So, teams get weaker. As clubs expand to younger ages and grab recreational players, their selection criteria becomes less stringent, and clubs weaken their talent pool. This is just a result of the expansion both of the number of premier clubs, with their need for kids with a pulse, as well as the number of teams within a club, which helps pay salary and offsets some costs like academy tuition.

We've also had a proliferation of leagues along the way, which futher reduces the concentration of strong clubs and distributes talent, resulting in more diluted league talent.

So, here we are. This is America. Consumers are free to buy what they want. So, parents are largely to blame for this mess, but what do they know? They only wanted what they perceived as best for their soccer star children.

At some point, the premier scene will collapse, as the economic wealth of parents diminishes and famlies seek a return to grassroots and reasonable travel distances, etc. I have no idea when that will happen, but it will be over the next decade. The current model is unsupportable for the long term. Oh, and none of this will help our national teams.

So, go ahead and sound off.

[Unregistered]

Sound off....

Good chat. Some thoughts.

I don't buy your use of the term, "private club."

Many traditional town-based, CJSA-based, recreational and classic travel clubs are not owned or run by the town but are actually run by private non-profits.

I see what you are trying to do, so I would say this. Classic travel and rec. soccer, where they exist together, are travel and rec. These are often geographically limited for recruiting by league rules. We can call these "town clubs," though we recognize the name is imprecise.

Then, there is premier. Premier has sub categories, such as pop-up premier. These are small clubs run by one or two dedicated personalities and feature a very few teams some of which only exist because of double rostering. These clubs might disappear when the personality running it moves on. Then, there is Academy, ECNL, and potentially NPL premier. These are long-lived premier clubs with numerous teams and tiers of development, such as A, B, and C teams. Then, there are premier teams, which are long lived but not top-league, such as CFC Wolves.

So, I would say there are "town clubs" and "premier clubs."

When you said the following, "What changed so quickly, somewhat recently, has been the PRIVATE CLUB involvement at the younger ages.", most of us recognized as early as 2001 that this was inevitable and it has taken 15 years, but the premier clubs have reached out to younger and younger age groups, and to recreational-quality players, as a means of padding revenue. This was always foreseen and in the cards, so it's not a sudden thing.

Diminishing quality of teams and clubs has also always been in the cards. As more and more clubs come into being, stronger players get distributed more and less concentrated. So, teams get weaker. As clubs expand to younger ages and grab recreational players, their selection criteria becomes less stringent, and clubs weaken their talent pool. This is just a result of the expansion both of the number of premier clubs, with their need for kids with a pulse, as well as the number of teams within a club, which helps pay salary and offsets some costs like academy tuition.

We've also had a proliferation of leagues along the way, which futher reduces the concentration of strong clubs and distributes talent, resulting in more diluted league talent.

So, here we are. This is America. Consumers are free to buy what they want. So, parents are largely to blame for this mess, but what do they know? They only wanted what they perceived as best for their soccer star children.

At some point, the premier scene will collapse, as the economic wealth of parents diminishes and famlies seek a return to grassroots and reasonable travel distances, etc. I have no idea when that will happen, but it will be over the next decade. The current model is unsupportable for the long term. Oh, and none of this will help our national teams.

So, go ahead and sound off.

Progress often requires change, and change can be disruptive and displacing. Progress is in motion, change is occurring and it is being disruptive and displacing.

I do believe that while we live in a concentrated population region (which allows for all the pop ups to have a 'chance') the pyramid structure of youth soccer (town to premier - to private - to DA - to MLS ) DOES have merit and WILL produce stronger players in the region and thus contribute to our national goals.

The DA clubs now have to excel at a NEW level whereby they compete with MLS clubs... and the only way that happens is TEAM consolidation in the age group. What I mean by that is that the best players from FCW, Beachside, NYSC, World Class, etc... all go and play for one team. WHO wins that battle.... has yet to be determined. But they all can't win, and they won't. But that is at the DA level.

At the non DA level (lets call it Premier) you have BARCA into the fold, your FC Trans, CFC, Brooklyn Italians, Quick Strike, Susa, Shoreline, and the likes. They don't have a DA badge so they can't play in that sand box. What they do have is a good program, solid leaders (whether you like them or not) who know the game and the soccer landscape. They can't all win.... many will fail in the next 5 years. They'll become glorified town travel teams (if they aren't already).

Pecking order is/and will be
MLS teams
DA teams/GDA/ECNL
Premier programs
Glorified town travel
Town travel
Rec

MLS teams are here to stay....on that there can be no doubt - they are the top of the chain and will remain as such.

DA teams are here to stay... on that there can be no doubt - and increased competition and play.

Premier programs will THRIVE, as DA clubs get out of that game - they'll be a good option

Glorified town travel teams are DEAD. They can't survive and will vanish one by one or be bought and merged. Kind of like what SUSA has done to LI, will be done in Westchester and CT as well.

Town travel will always exist, but there won't be A-B-C, there may just be A/B at first ... then eventually A only as roster construction becomes to much to handle across all the age groups.

Rec is dead at U-10/11 now, and it will probably cease to be able to exist as REC beyond the hoop goals and the truly young ones. Those decent REC players will be needed at Town Travel to fill out rosters. There will be TRAINING offered by towns, but leagues and legit competition will fade away, or legitimately struggle to field teams from U-11 onward.

Thats how I see it.