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    #16
    Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
    I am a real estate appraiser. Family life is great but the job sucks. The appraisal industry is one of the worst jobs to have at this time. I wish someone would have told me to figure out what you want to do for a living before you go to college. I had a blast in college playing baseball and going out but totally regret that I did not have someone pushing me to take school more serious.

    Part of the problem was that I thought I was going to play pro ball. I only went to college for baseball. Two operations my first two years put a end to that dream.

    My boys dream of playing pro soccer. I support their dream 100% but I always tell them school is #1 and that you need a back up plan.

    Play hard and study harder in school. The security you will feel from a great education is worth the sacrifice you make in college.
    Again a great post. I fooled around in college too, almost not able to graduate. But I found what I like in graduate school and did ok since then. Only very very few can make it to the pro. Education should always be first.

    Comment


      #17
      Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
      It's funny, because going through the college search process now I realize how much I would like to go to college again. I am much interested in all the schools than my son.

      I personally think age 17 or 18 is way too young to expect a child/young adult to know what they want to do. Maybe they have a glimmer or know they like science/math better than english or whatever, but more likely than not I think most have fallen in love with some image of doing something and/or their parents have heavily influenced the choice. That's why I think some are very smart to do a PG year, and I think, in terms of what you're talking about, a fair number of kids would benefit by starting college at 21 or 22 or even after age 25.
      I would agree with that. I feel I am more prepared to go to college now at 38 then I was at 18. I was the first to graduate from college in my family so my parents did not have much experience to provide direction.

      Comment


        #18
        Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
        Athletes in top varsity programs in time consuming sports (like football, basketball and hockey) are usually in majors like economics and very rarely in the sciences. And the ones thinking about pro contracts are definitely not interested in academics.
        Poppycock. Particularly the second point. I had a student in a course back in 90 or 91. Excellent student. Did well in class. This was at a D1 big time sports school. He was a 4 year varsity basketball letter winner after being red shirted freshman year. The bball program there has never won a title but has one, maybe two final four appearances and I know they made sweet sixteen several more times. He was a first round NBA draft pick playing 10 yrs in the NBA, many as a starter, and averaged around 10 ppg for his career and 15 ppg in his better years. Excellent all-around floor game. He graduated, not with a Bachelors after those five years, but with a Masters. In math. Have you looked at the coursework required to major and get a BS in math, let alone a Masters? I don't know his GPA but my god man....most of the good students in this country run away from majoring in math, physics, and engineering because they are too hard for us nowadays! Good students know they can earn as much in majors that don't require them to work as hard as those subjects.

        I know its one student. But it can be done. Met a D3 soccer player this past year who was carrying a 4.0 as a senior pre-med major. He may have been captain too. Think he'll get in to med school?

        There are no generalizations to follow. Every individual is different.

        Comment


          #19
          Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
          Poppycock. Particularly the second point. I had a student in a course back in 90 or 91. Excellent student. Did well in class. This was at a D1 big time sports school. He was a 4 year varsity basketball letter winner after being red shirted freshman year. The bball program there has never won a title but has one, maybe two final four appearances and I know they made sweet sixteen several more times. He was a first round NBA draft pick playing 10 yrs in the NBA, many as a starter, and averaged around 10 ppg for his career and 15 ppg in his better years. Excellent all-around floor game. He graduated, not with a Bachelors after those five years, but with a Masters. In math. Have you looked at the coursework required to major and get a BS in math, let alone a Masters? I don't know his GPA but my god man....most of the good students in this country run away from majoring in math, physics, and engineering because they are too hard for us nowadays! Good students know they can earn as much in majors that don't require them to work as hard as those subjects.

          I know its one student. But it can be done. Met a D3 soccer player this past year who was carrying a 4.0 as a senior pre-med major. He may have been captain too. Think he'll get in to med school?

          There are no generalizations to follow. Every individual is different.
          I love posts like this. You have a guy who experienced the life telling us that one of the big regrets in his life is that his personal immaturity prevented him from taking advantage of the educational opportunity that was presented to him and we get folks like this from the peanut gallery who cite one example from afar that worked out to suggest that he has no idea what he is talking about. The example given was probably an extraordinary student and very driven to begin with. I would not be surprised if the kid was a class valedictorian or close to it. Does anyone doubt that they would have been successful where ever they went to school? The point that the original poster was making was not that it was impossible but rather that there are alot of distractions involved with being an athlete/student and if your kid does not really have the drive to be a student they can get through college with very little or nothing to show for it. The real issue is you have to be objective about your kid, if they are the type of academically motivated person that can avoid temptation for the sake of school, they will have no problem in college regardless of whether they play a sport or not. If your kid is not, then you really need to evaluate the situation carefully because the reality is that the environment typically will not foster an academic drive for them.

          Comment


            #20
            Another point that I would like to make is that this sort of post represents a fairly typical "academic" point of view. A lot of professors and school administrators will hold up the expectional student/athlete as the standard for all athletes to emulate with seemingly little respect to either the academic or athletic environment they exist in. Honestly the type of student/athlete they will point to is not really representative of an average student much less one that is primarily focused on their sports performance. Unfortunately this sort of mindset creates a lot of false academic expectations and helps to create an environment where most athletes end up being viewed as failures.

            You also need to understand how easy it is for an athlete to become myopically focused on their sports perfromance and not school. Athletes, have more structure than just about any other student on campus. Do not lose site of the fact that the whole point of that structure is to actually help the athlete perform their sport not excel in the classroom.
            Last edited by beentheredonethat; 02-04-2010, 10:04 AM.

            Comment


              #21
              About generalizations - there are generalizations because there are statistics and averages. In the Ivy League, the school monitors the average and individual GPA of student athletes, their course choices, and their academic performance based on an expectation derived from their SAT and high school performance. In some sports, male athlete academic performance is consistently below their non-athlete peers. But not by much (on average). Outside the Ivy League (which after all prioritizes academic performance), the story is considerably different in a bad way. What I have told my son is that the time pressure caused by trying to be the best at multiple things is something that will simply continue into college. (but whether to continue to spread himself thin is, of course, his choice).

              Comment


                #22
                Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                What I have told my son is that the time pressure caused by trying to be the best at multiple things is something that will simply continue into college. (but whether to continue to spread himself thin is, of course, his choice).
                It does not end in college. It is something to deal with one's entire life.

                Comment


                  #23
                  The simple point I ways trying to make was that it is possible to play a high level of college athletics and still succeed in a very demanding major. It just takes one of two things. Either you are incredible gifted student or you are great at time management.

                  You have to remember that students that do not play a sport in college have a ton of down time to study, go out or have a part time job. If you play a sport you will have atleast 4 hours a day devoted to that sport. That is if you have practice or a home game. If you are traveling you have even more time devoted to that sport for those particular days. The time that you are playing a sport would probably have been spent studying if you are a dedicated student not playing a sport. That does not leave much time for socializing if you are on a athletic team and also a dedicated student. It is a choice that you have to make. Live for the now or live now for the future. Believe me, sacrificing now for the future is a much wiser choice.

                  One more side note. Your high school academics will be more important than your soccer stats when you are being recruited. I was a "B/C" student in HS. Did only enough to get by. My teamate that was part of a great double play combination was a straight "A" student. We had the same accomplishments on the field but the level of D1 schools he had going after him was higher. I had middle level D1 schools offering scholarships. I could never understand why until I got to college and had one bad semester. My college coach called me into his office and threaten to pull my scholarship if did not get my grades up. He said he would rather have a 300 hitter that is a "A" student than a 350 hitter that was a "C" student. He did not want to be bothered about worrying if I was going to be eligible from one semester to the next.

                  Baseball like soccer makes no money for the school. Soccer is not football or basketball where the university has a financial stake in you being eligible. In most cases they could care less. They don't want to waist scholarship money on a student/athlete that might become ineligible.

                  If your child has a desire and talent to play college athletics then you better stress at a young age the upmost importance of being a better student than soccer player. If they just want to play college athletics and are not a dedicated student then make sure they are playing a sport that makes the university money.

                  Go play college soccer and be a pre med student. You can do it. Just don't plan on having much down time to socialize. It is only four years of your young adult life. You will have plenty of time to catch up on what you sacrificed. My first four years of college was playing baseball. Sometimes it was great and sometimes it sucked. (never got to go on one spring break) I did not graduate in four years so my last year was spent as a student only. My grades went way up but that year could not compare to the four years playing college athletics.

                  If you are lucky enough to get the chance to play a sport in college relish every moment but relize it is just four years of a hopefully long life ahead of you. Be propery prepared for the rest of your life by making the right choices in your short time in college.

                  Comment


                    #24
                    If you are a serious student and hope to have a high level of academic achievment, you need to pick your school carefully. Ivy league, Williams, Duke, Stanford, etc. have environments where that more possible.

                    Comment


                      #25
                      Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                      If you are a serious student and hope to have a high level of academic achievment, you need to pick your school carefully. Ivy league, Williams, Duke, Stanford, etc. have environments where that more possible.
                      I replied to the above post, but consider it also an answer to all the posts upthread cautioning about the inability of students to succeed academically while competing at college sports.

                      I suggest everyone look over the link below, listing the 145 men's and 338 women's college soccer teams that have posted a team gpa of at least 3.0 or higher.

                      I would like to make a few points. You cannot make any generalizations about conferences. I am mainly, well actually only really interested in the men's side, but I am sure those interested in women's can chime in with similar analysis.

                      I find it interesting that Dartmouth college shows up with a 3.46 on the men's side, but Harvard does not. Most of the other Ivy's are present.

                      Amherst College shows up with a 3.47, but Williams does not (they do on the women's side). No Middlebury, no Wesleyan. In fact, the only other NESCACs I see is Colby at 3.34. and Conn college at 3.25.

                      Patriot League is interesting too. Bucknell is there with 3.28, Colgate with 3.16 American at 3.25, lafayette at 3.21. No Lehigh. No Holy Cross. I know Bucknell is among the last to offer athletic scholarships in the Patriot League, yet have been one of the better teams in recent years.

                      Some other amazingly good schools that have high GPA's among players:

                      Carleton 3.39
                      Haverford 3.43
                      Emerson 3.40
                      Johns Hopkins 3.25
                      Skidmore 3.34

                      Big D1's

                      Stanford 3.37
                      Duke 3.08
                      University of Akron 3.27 (Hey weren't they #2 in nation)

                      and plenty more. the point is, people like beentheredonethat and others make it seem that academic success while playing is rare. It is not as rare as they would lead you to believe.

                      Look at the GPA's at some of these schools and then tell me what you think. Gpa's as high as 3.4-3.5 across an entire roster? Having been through the recruiting game, let me also tell you that you shouldn't just go NESCAC or Ivy because you assume a higher academic standard. Look at Harvard's absence from the list, as well as so many of the NESCAC's. The cultures vary so choose carefully if you have a good student/athlete to contend with.

                      There are many schools on the list, at all price levels and competitive levels. If you want to find a program that has a track record of good student academic achievement in mind, I suggest you keep this list handy when you develop your short lists. We did.

                      http://www.nscaa.com/articles/20091106144024511.php

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Originally posted by unregistered View Post
                        i replied to the above post, but consider it also an answer to all the posts upthread cautioning about the inability of students to succeed academically while competing at college sports.

                        I suggest everyone look over the link below, listing the 145 men's and 338 women's college soccer teams that have posted a team gpa of at least 3.0 or higher.

                        I would like to make a few points. You cannot make any generalizations about conferences. I am mainly, well actually only really interested in the men's side, but i am sure those interested in women's can chime in with similar analysis.

                        I find it interesting that dartmouth college shows up with a 3.46 on the men's side, but harvard does not. Most of the other ivy's are present.

                        Amherst college shows up with a 3.47, but williams does not (they do on the women's side). No middlebury, no wesleyan. In fact, the only other nescacs i see is colby at 3.34. And conn college at 3.25.

                        Patriot league is interesting too. Bucknell is there with 3.28, colgate with 3.16 american at 3.25, lafayette at 3.21. No lehigh. No holy cross. I know bucknell is among the last to offer athletic scholarships in the patriot league, yet have been one of the better teams in recent years.

                        Some other amazingly good schools that have high gpa's among players:

                        Carleton 3.39
                        haverford 3.43
                        emerson 3.40
                        johns hopkins 3.25
                        skidmore 3.34

                        big d1's

                        stanford 3.37
                        duke 3.08
                        university of akron 3.27 (hey weren't they #2 in nation)

                        and plenty more. The point is, people like beentheredonethat and others make it seem that academic success while playing is rare. It is not as rare as they would lead you to believe.

                        Look at the gpa's at some of these schools and then tell me what you think. Gpa's as high as 3.4-3.5 across an entire roster? Having been through the recruiting game, let me also tell you that you shouldn't just go nescac or ivy because you assume a higher academic standard. Look at harvard's absence from the list, as well as so many of the nescac's. The cultures vary so choose carefully if you have a good student/athlete to contend with.

                        There are many schools on the list, at all price levels and competitive levels. If you want to find a program that has a track record of good student academic achievement in mind, i suggest you keep this list handy when you develop your short lists. We did.

                        http://www.nscaa.com/articles/20091106144024511.php
                        fantastic post. Thank you!

                        Comment


                          #27
                          Harvard doesn't scale GAP like other schools, just a quirk from long ago....

                          Comment


                            #28
                            Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                            Harvard doesn't scale GAP like other schools, just a quirk from long ago....
                            You point is that all other schools grade on a curve and Harvard does not? Link or hearsay? What puts you in a position to know this?

                            Comment


                              #29
                              Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                              I replied to the above post, but consider it also an answer to all the posts upthread cautioning about the inability of students to succeed academically while competing at college sports.

                              I suggest everyone look over the link below, listing the 145 men's and 338 women's college soccer teams that have posted a team gpa of at least 3.0 or higher.

                              ...

                              and plenty more. the point is, people like beentheredonethat and others make it seem that academic success while playing is rare. It is not as rare as they would lead you to believe.

                              Look at the GPA's at some of these schools and then tell me what you think. Gpa's as high as 3.4-3.5 across an entire roster? Having been through the recruiting game, let me also tell you that you shouldn't just go NESCAC or Ivy because you assume a higher academic standard.

                              http://www.nscaa.com/articles/20091106144024511.php
                              With grade inflation these numbers are meaningless. Not everyone should aspire to get to med school, but a 3.4 is NOT an impressive GPA, sorry. The person who posted this needs to consider that the absence of Harvard from this list, for example, likely reflects higher academic rigor there from other schools who publish that their "whole team" has a higher cumulative GPA.

                              Comment


                                #30
                                Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                                fantastic post. Thank you!
                                You are welcome. Don't forget to click through the links on the bottom for the "all-time" lists. When you see schools that have been on this list for 7-8 years out of 10, you can conclude that the reason is beyond a particularly talented cohort coming through. There are schools from D1 through D3, big reputations to relative unknowns (at least around here).

                                Comment

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