Gauging “Level of Play”

[Unregistered]

You mean #40-130 since #1-40 are overwhelmingly P5’s? So here in New England “top” D1 for most players would be MAAC (Fairfield), Atlantic 10 (UMass), Northeastern (CAA), UConn (AAC), and any of the NE Ivies if you’re smart and/or coming from an ISL school.

What about UNH; Prov; BU; HC and CCSU? More choices....

[Unregistered]

You mean #40-130 since #1-40 are overwhelmingly P5’s? So here in New England “top” D1 for most players would be MAAC (Fairfield), Atlantic 10 (UMass), Northeastern (CAA), UConn (AAC), and any of the NE Ivies if you’re smart and/or coming from an ISL school.

Given New England penchant for academics, I would include Patriot League in same class as A10, and certainly equivalent or downright better than MAAC

[Unregistered]

What about UNH; Prov; BU; HC and CCSU? More choices....

You’re right on Providence (Big East), but “top” D1 are in schools, and more importantly conferences where the majority of schools are ranked #130 and up, then those other schools and their conferences don’t make the cut. UNH and most other American East schools are clustered #150-275. HC and BU in Patriot are ranked #200-275. And CCSU was an outlier this year in an NEC conference where most teams ranked #250-325. That puts American East and Patriot schools in the middle and NEC at the bottom of the D1. Obviously, there are outliers either way in every conference, but if you are the top team in a conferences with your competition clustered at the bottom, you have to wonder what “top” means in that context.

[Unregistered]

Your from NewEngland odds on P5 is against you realistically.Can count on two hands the number of kids in a decade from MA that went to a P5.Shoot for any of the top 130 and be happy the kid plays.

Don't forget that Syracuse and BC are in P5 conferences, and are loaded with MA players. There are quite a few P5 schools (Pitt, Iowa St., Michigan St., Oregon, Arizona St.) that have perennially weak teams, and MA kids could probably play there - but why bother?

Beyond the BC/Syracuse group, however, I think you're pretty accurate. Only a handful of kids from MA are going to big-time programs over any 5 year period. All of the more local programs are average or below average on a national scale, with an occasional 1-2 year spike if they get an unusually talented goal scorer every now and then.

[Unregistered]

Don't forget that Syracuse and BC are in P5 conferences, and are loaded with MA players. There are quite a few P5 schools (Pitt, Iowa St., Michigan St., Oregon, Arizona St.) that have perennially weak teams, and MA kids could probably play there - but why bother?

Beyond the BC/Syracuse group, however, I think you're pretty accurate. Only a handful of kids from MA are going to big-time programs over any 5 year period. All of the more local programs are average or below average on a national scale, with an occasional 1-2 year spike if they get an unusually talented goal scorer every now and then.

and both schools are ranked last two in the ACC.

[Unregistered]

You’re right on Providence (Big East), but “top” D1 are in schools, and more importantly conferences where the majority of schools are ranked #130 and up, then those other schools and their conferences don’t make the cut. UNH and most other American East schools are clustered #150-275. HC and BU in Patriot are ranked #200-275. And CCSU was an outlier this year in an NEC conference where most teams ranked #250-325. That puts American East and Patriot schools in the middle and NEC at the bottom of the D1. Obviously, there are outliers either way in every conference, but if you are the top team in a conferences with your competition clustered at the bottom, you have to wonder what “top” means in that context.

Correct. It's all relative.

On the sidelines in Mendon or Lancaster, hearing that a kid is going to HC, PC, NE, BU, UNH, etc. for soccer is great. Those are good schools and play competitive soccer for this area. We're being delusional, though, if we're saying that they are top D1 soccer schools or that these are big time programs. They are significantly stronger than other local schools like URI, Merrimack or Maine, but they are in a whole different class from the schools that can always count on being a top 25 or even top 50 program.

[Unregistered]

Correct. It's all relative.

On the sidelines in Mendon or Lancaster, hearing that a kid is going to HC, PC, NE, BU, UNH, etc. for soccer is great. Those are good schools and play competitive soccer for this area. We're being delusional, though, if we're saying that they are top D1 soccer schools or that these are big time programs. They are significantly stronger than other local schools like URI, Merrimack or Maine, but they are in a whole different class from the schools that can always count on being a top 25 or even top 50 program.

Unless you are talking about men’s soccer.

[Unregistered]

Correct. It's all relative.

On the sidelines in Mendon or Lancaster, hearing that a kid is going to HC, PC, NE, BU, UNH, etc. for soccer is great. Those are good schools and play competitive soccer for this area. We're being delusional, though, if we're saying that they are top D1 soccer schools or that these are big time programs. They are significantly stronger than other local schools like URI, Merrimack or Maine, but they are in a whole different class from the schools that can always count on being a top 25 or even top 50 program.

I would not go by any one season rankings. For instance, BU had a rebuild season; they were ranked 75 after 2018 season and only 4 years ago where in top 40.

[Unregistered]

Correct. It's all relative.

On the sidelines in Mendon or Lancaster, hearing that a kid is going to HC, PC, NE, BU, UNH, etc. for soccer is great. Those are good schools and play competitive soccer for this area. We're being delusional, though, if we're saying that they are top D1 soccer schools or that these are big time programs. They are significantly stronger than other local schools like URI, Merrimack or Maine, but they are in a whole different class from the schools that can always count on being a top 25 or even top 50 program.

Agreed. Most are good local schools, but other than the Ivies, BC, BU they lack name recognition outside of New England which limits their recruiting to mainly a smaller NE pool of players. If you say Northeastern or Holy Cross to someone down South or out West they would probably not even know what you are talking about. P5 and some other top conferences like Big East draw from a bigger pool.

[Unregistered]

I would not go by any one season rankings. For instance, BU had a rebuild season; they were ranked 75 after 2018 season and only 4 years ago where in top 40.

Unless it's a P5 school which has the money to recruit, facilities, the fully funded scholarships, most should look at the average of the past 4-5 years before committing.

[Unregistered]

I would not go by any one season rankings. For instance, BU had a rebuild season; they were ranked 75 after 2018 season and only 4 years ago where in top 40.

That’s why it makes more sense to talk about conferences when classifying or ranking the D1. A school can always have a good or bad year, but rarely does the entire conference move 50 or 100 spots on average every year. They generally stay clustered in a range so if you trying to gauge level of play then look at the entire conference for the school you are interested in.

[Unregistered]

That’s why it makes more sense to talk about conferences when classifying or ranking the D1. A school can always have a good or bad year, but rarely does the entire conference move 50 or 100 spots on average every year. They generally stay clustered in a range so if you trying to gauge level of play then look at the entire conference for the school you are interested in.

That doesn't necessarily work either because some teams are carried in RPI because of their conferences yet are hardly deserving of their ranking. That's why RPI (everybody's schedule vs everybody's schedule) is a flawed ranking system.

[Unregistered]

That’s why it makes more sense to talk about conferences when classifying or ranking the D1. A school can always have a good or bad year, but rarely does the entire conference move 50 or 100 spots on average every year. They generally stay clustered in a range so if you trying to gauge level of play then look at the entire conference for the school you are interested in.

Very good point. While some conferences have 1-2 teams that consistently sit on top (e.g., 15+ years of dominance), many conferences are a bit more balanced. Taking an average of the RPI's for the conference - or better yet use the average for the top 6 teams in the conference - over a 5 year stretch will probably yield the most accurate indicator of their relative strength. It would clearly show the gap between AAC and ACC.

[Unregistered]

Very good point. While some conferences have 1-2 teams that consistently sit on top (e.g., 15+ years of dominance), many conferences are a bit more balanced. Taking an average of the RPI's for the conference - or better yet use the average for the top 6 teams in the conference - over a 5 year stretch will probably yield the most accurate indicator of their relative strength. It would clearly show the gap between AAC and ACC.

of course. But that's the point, the top 1-2 teams in AAC may be middle range teams in ACC.

And the bottom 3 teams in ACC would maybe be mid to bottom teams in AAC. Let's face it Syracuse, Miami, etc. have a long way to go.

But because of the teams carried by their conference's RPI's their rankings are a false positive.

[Unregistered]

of course. But that's the point, the top 1-2 teams in AAC may be middle range teams in ACC.

And the bottom 3 teams in ACC would maybe be mid to bottom teams in AAC. Let's face it Syracuse, Miami, etc. have a long way to go.

But because of the teams carried by their conference's RPI's their rankings are a false positive.

IMO, a Syracuse or Miami would be pretty dominant for a couple of years if they were to join the AAC or PL. Then, once the classes that had been drawn to ACC soccer had aged out, they would sink closer to parity. Just my opinion.