Buyer Beware of For-Profit Soccer Providers

[Unregistered]

Isn't NSC folding into Westside?

No. Nic used to coach at Westside. He had the B teams. My daughter was on the A team so we knew who he was. He needed a work visa to stay in the states. He worked with a parent to move his two teams over to a church-run field and start his own club. I think NSC came out of his former college recruitment program he offered. He offered it free to his Westside teams and they then moved over with him. He later partnered up with another college mate to operate their for-business plan out of state as well.

If he doesn't have a full-time "unique" work position, then he likely has to go back to the U.K. He's had to do so before.

[Unregistered]

No. Nic used to coach at Westside. He had the B teams. My daughter was on the A team so we knew who he was. He needed a work visa to stay in the states. He worked with a parent to move his two teams over to a church-run field and start his own club. I think NSC came out of his former college recruitment program he offered. He offered it free to his Westside teams and they then moved over with him. He later partnered up with another college mate to operate their for-business plan out of state as well.

If he doesn't have a full-time "unique" work position, then he likely has to go back to the U.K. He's had to do so before.

Hiring coaches with Visa issues can be a major problem.

[Unregistered]

You say potato, I say potaatoe. Non profit clubs are set up for a reason. Few have a charitable mission. Many don't go this route because of the extra scrutiny, legal and accounting work required. 990 forms are also available to the public and most owners would prefer to keep all info hidden

GPS is the only for-profit club in Oregon that I know of.

[Unregistered]

You say potato, I say potaatoe. Non profit clubs are set up for a reason. Few have a charitable mission. Many don't go this route because of the extra scrutiny, legal and accounting work required. 990 forms are also available to the public and most owners would prefer to keep all info hidden

Note that while a non-profit's mission generally has to involve some sort of public service, it need not be charitable. A youth soccer club that a) charges fees from parents, which it then uses to b) pay coaches, rent facilities, and enter tournaments and leagues, even if there's no "charity" involved, is a perfectly legitimate use of non-profit status.

The potential trouble occurs when a non-profit starts paying its principles a salary well above market rates for the function they perform. A DOC making $250k a year would raise eyebrows. (One could argue about one making $100k a year, but that seems to be the going rate, especially for one who actually does work full time on behalf of the club).

[Unregistered]

GPS is the only for-profit club in Oregon that I know of.

HSC is the non-profit club of record and GPS is somehow tagged on with them.

[Unregistered]

Note that while a non-profit's mission generally has to involve some sort of public service, it need not be charitable. A youth soccer club that a) charges fees from parents, which it then uses to b) pay coaches, rent facilities, and enter tournaments and leagues, even if there's no "charity" involved, is a perfectly legitimate use of non-profit status.

The potential trouble occurs when a non-profit starts paying its principles a salary well above market rates for the function they perform. A DOC making $250k a year would raise eyebrows. (One could argue about one making $100k a year, but that seems to be the going rate, especially for one who actually does work full time on behalf of the club).

Anyone making over 60K to 70K as a coach or coaching director at our local non-profit recreational/classic clubs should raise eyebrows from the IRS.

American Football, Basketball, Baseball and LAX that form youth leagues/clubs for the kiddos don't have any collection of coaches making any amounts near the 60K bench mark

If it's a for profit business no eyebrows raised as it's not done off the backs of community of families who just want their kid to play a neighborhood sport with friends, it's done with a brand or product for all and pay the freight in taxes unlike non-profits who have a community mission.

Why is Soccer so monetized in the american sport culture? Weird. Is it the accent?

Or a millennial scam?

[Unregistered]

Anyone making over 60K to 70K as a coach or coaching director at our local non-profit recreational/classic clubs should raise eyebrows from the IRS.

American Football, Basketball, Baseball and LAX that form youth leagues/clubs for the kiddos don't have any collection of coaches making any amounts near the 60K bench mark

If it's a for profit business no eyebrows raised as it's not done off the backs of community of families who just want their kid to play a neighborhood sport with friends, it's done with a brand or product for all and pay the freight in taxes unlike non-profits who have a community mission.

Why is Soccer so monetized in the american sport culture? Weird. Is it the accent?

Or a millennial scam?

Generally, the coaches at rec leagues are making zero--they are volunteers.

Most part-time coaches for classic clubs don't make much either. It's the DoCs and a few full-timers.

In the other sports--high school seems to be the preferred career path for top prospects, rather than private competitive clubs; high school coaches are generally making salaries similar to teachers (and many of them are classroom teachers in addition to their coaching duties). There's far less club infrastructure around these sports then there is around soccer, it seems. (Though many people complain about the AAU in basketball, and about predatory coaches therein).

[Unregistered]

Generally, the coaches at rec leagues are making zero--they are volunteers.

Most part-time coaches for classic clubs don't make much either. It's the DoCs and a few full-timers.

In the other sports--high school seems to be the preferred career path for top prospects, rather than private competitive clubs; high school coaches are generally making salaries similar to teachers (and many of them are classroom teachers in addition to their coaching duties). There's far less club infrastructure around these sports then there is around soccer, it seems. (Though many people complain about the AAU in basketball, and about predatory coaches therein).

AAU"coaches" make more than soccer coaches... from people that even the NCAA thinks are shady. but the overall point that DOCs that make a ton of money are suspect is spot on.











(then again, same could be said for CEOs who make 335x what the average american makes.)

[Unregistered]

Anyone making over 60K to 70K as a coach or coaching director at our local non-profit recreational/classic clubs should raise eyebrows from the IRS.

American Football, Basketball, Baseball and LAX that form youth leagues/clubs for the kiddos don't have any collection of coaches making any amounts near the 60K bench mark

If it's a for profit business no eyebrows raised as it's not done off the backs of community of families who just want their kid to play a neighborhood sport with friends, it's done with a brand or product for all and pay the freight in taxes unlike non-profits who have a community mission.

Why is Soccer so monetized in the american sport culture? Weird. Is it the accent?

Or a millennial scam?

Nonprofit does not mean people are not paid well nor does it mean volunteers only.

Goodwill CEO $800K

American Cancer Society CEO $2.1M

Boy's and Girls Club of America President $1.8M

Qualification for Nonprofit.

Nonprofit organizations seek to serve the public in some way and, as a result, receive special benefits and tax breaks from the state. A business classified as a nonprofit at the state level still may not qualify for exemptions and benefits from the federal government. Businesses must meet federal requirements to receive these special treatments in addition to meeting them in their states.

Serving public is pretty broad. Credit Unions are nonprofit and their executives do quite well.

[Unregistered]

Anyone making over 60K to 70K as a coach or coaching director at our local non-profit recreational/classic clubs should raise eyebrows from the IRS.

American Football, Basketball, Baseball and LAX that form youth leagues/clubs for the kiddos don't have any collection of coaches making any amounts near the 60K bench mark

If it's a for profit business no eyebrows raised as it's not done off the backs of community of families who just want their kid to play a neighborhood sport with friends, it's done with a brand or product for all and pay the freight in taxes unlike non-profits who have a community mission.

Why is Soccer so monetized in the american sport culture? Weird. Is it the accent?

Or a millennial scam?

There is a difference between rec sports and club sports. The people doing higher level clubs for basketball, baseball, and LAX are making the same amount of money as the $60Ku you are talking about for soccer. There are AAU basketball coaches with shoe contracts.

[Unregistered]

Nonprofit does not mean people are not paid well nor does it mean volunteers only.

Goodwill CEO $800K

American Cancer Society CEO $2.1M

Boy's and Girls Club of America President $1.8M

Qualification for Nonprofit.

Nonprofit organizations seek to serve the public in some way and, as a result, receive special benefits and tax breaks from the state. A business classified as a nonprofit at the state level still may not qualify for exemptions and benefits from the federal government. Businesses must meet federal requirements to receive these special treatments in addition to meeting them in their states.

Serving public is pretty broad. Credit Unions are nonprofit and their executives do quite well.

The 3 non profits you mention have nothing in common with the neighborhood Soccer club payroll...Those three non profits cited , combined do over 1 billion + in revenue each year. So the salaries of their top executives are reasonable as a percentage of gross. While serving millions of Americans annually.

At you local neighborhood soccer club when your top 3 & only full time employees take home nearly 40% of your total revenue of $1 million in a year, something is a miss. With a membership in the 1k to 2k range served. That's nutz.

Nice Try at misdirection but it fell flat.

[Unregistered]

The 3 non profits you mention have nothing in common with the neighborhood Soccer club payroll...Those three non profits cited , combined do over 1 billion + in revenue each year. So the salaries of their top executives are reasonable as a percentage of gross. While serving millions of Americans annually.

At you local neighborhood soccer club when your top 3 & only full time employees take home nearly 40% of your total revenue of $1 million in a year, something is a miss. With a membership in the 1k to 2k range served. That's nutz.

Nice Try at misdirection but it fell flat.

It was not really meant to be a misdirection.

Not really sure if you are getting it. Someone mentioned $70K as being outrageous. That is not really unreasonable for a full time position. A club that has a membership of 1K to 2K is generating much more than $1m. Rec clubs are a different story and are driven by volunteers. You get what you pay for though.

Back to the definition of non profit. They can't turn a profit and need to spend most of their revenues. For a soccer club that would be office space, field rentals, league fees, and of course salaries.

[Unregistered]

It was not really meant to be a misdirection.

Not really sure if you are getting it. Someone mentioned $70K as being outrageous. That is not really unreasonable for a full time position. A club that has a membership of 1K to 2K is generating much more than $1m. Rec clubs are a different story and are driven by volunteers. You get what you pay for though.

Back to the definition of non profit. They can't turn a profit and need to spend most of their revenues. For a soccer club that would be office space, field rentals, league fees, and of course salaries.

Agree with most of what you write. BTW-there are classic clubs who are predominantly volunteer based. Did you specifically mean paid coaches versus rec program volunteer coaches?

Comments regarding the definition of a "non-profit" and its "profit":

A for-profit exists to make money for its shareholders (profit-centered for individuals) or is created as a social enterprise entity.

A non-profit as a 501(c)(3) entity declares itself to be public-centered or charitable by nature of its activities. In order to remain solvent, a non-profit operating with exempt purpose should have net earnings at the end of their fiscal year. It is important to understand the federal tax-exempt requirements involving net earnings for public interest without inurement for private benefit. Thus the reason for declarations, IRS form 990, Schedule A, etc., and external audits as checks and balances.

[Unregistered]

Agree with most of what you write. BTW-there are classic clubs who are predominantly volunteer based. Did you specifically mean paid coaches versus rec program volunteer coaches?

Comments regarding the definition of a "non-profit" and its "profit":

A for-profit exists to make money for its shareholders (profit-centered for individuals) or is created as a social enterprise entity.

A non-profit as a 501(c)(3) entity declares itself to be public-centered or charitable by nature of its activities. In order to remain solvent, a non-profit operating with exempt purpose should have net earnings at the end of their fiscal year. It is important to understand the federal tax-exempt requirements involving net earnings for public interest without inurement for private benefit. Thus the reason for declarations, IRS form 990, Schedule A, etc., and external audits as checks and balances.

While most of what you say has been outlined in past posts, it's good to know you understand the structural differences between a 'for profit' entity vs a 'non-profit' entity.

With that said you skipped out the aspect of the non-profit being able to accept tax-free donations as method of not being in the red. Which nearly all charitable groups rely on, donations/funding.

What's lost in this discussion is the reality that nearly all of the 501c3 community mission based soccer clubs were structured to operate very lean and charge a nominal fee to the membership for participation and provide a community service with the volunteers doing the heavy lifting.

Today those classic/rec clubs still lean heavy on the recreational membership volunteers to coach at the rec level.

Local school districts or counties supply the fields to them for a cost of next to nothing in most cases.

The club paid employees (DOC/Coaches) outside of the administrators don't really have much to do with the recreational teams, coaches and players and this group constitutes nearly 80% of the club membership.

Which all goes back to the discussion about a reasonable wage for hiring/firing of classic coaches in the neighborhood of 15 to 30 teams per club(the DOC).

Earnings reflected in 990's for 2 years ago ranging from $100 to $200K+ in wages a year makes this job one of the best 20 occupations in the united states.

http://www.businessinsider.com/highe...-optometrist-1

How is that even possible? Just curious not interested in that occupation.

[Unregistered]

"Earnings reflected in 990's for 2 years ago ranging from $100 to $200K+ in wages a year makes this job one of the best 20 occupations in the united states."

Not bad for 30 hours/week