Crossfire is screwed

[Unregistered]

Per guidance from Governor’s office (sent to PSPL):

Under Phase 2 of the Governor’s Plan concerning Recreation guidelines, “all outdoor recreation involving fewer than five (5) people outside your household (camping, beaches, etc.)” is allowed. However, Phase 2 Recreation guidelines do not include youth sports or other outdoor group sports and recreation activities at this time. Outdoor group sports and recreation activities for 5-50 participants will be allowed under Phase 3 of the Phased Approach Plan.
The ability to phase in certain sports and recreation activities is administered in accordance with the Phased Approach Plan. Whether County or local authorities permit access to their sports and recreation facilities, is a local decision and often requires additional components like liability insurance. Because outdoor group sports and recreation activities for 5-50 participants under the Phased Approach Plan are prohibited until Phase 3, it is unlikely that County or local authorities would permit access to their sports and recreation facilities at this time.

When was that sent? The governor’s sport-specific publication from YESTERDAY specifically includes organized youth sports in phase 2.

[Unregistered]

When was that sent? The governor’s sport-specific publication from YESTERDAY specifically includes organized youth sports in phase 2.

This is the revised sports-specific guidance that the governor’s office yesterday, which says they all organized youth outdoor team sports except hockey (not sure why that clarification was necessary as outdoor hockey practices in June can’t be much of a thing) can start now.

“Outdoor Youth Team Sports and Outdoor Adult Recreational Team Sports, Excluding School-Connected or Administered Team Sports and Junior Hockey
RESTART COVID-19 REQUIREMENTS AND RECOMMENDATIONS
• In Phase 2, team practice can resume if a) players are limited to groups of five in separate parts of the field, separated by a buffer zone and b) practice can follow social distancing of a minimum of five feet between players with no contact. Each league, organization, or club must publish and follow a “return to play” safety plan. Parents and household members must not congregate on the sidelines during practice.
• In Phase 3, teams can resume playing games. Total gathering at any one game cannot exceed 50 individuals. For sporting complexes with multiple fields or other playing surfaces, the 50- individual limit is counted on a per-field, not a per-complex basis.
• Nothing in these requirements should be read to obligate a facility owner to reopen a facility.“

https://www.governor.wa.gov/sites/de...20Guidance.pdf

[Unregistered]

That PSPL guidance is dated. Sports are clearly allowed in Phase 2 in small groups with social distancing. That being said King County is NOT in phase 2 and sporting activities are NOT outdoor recreation. Surely King County will clarify on way or the other because it is confusing the way it’s worded. King County sent their modified Phase application before Inslee opened up youth sports in Phase 2, so that is probably why it isn’t yet included.

[Unregistered]

That PSPL guidance is dated. Sports are clearly allowed in Phase 2 in small groups with social distancing. That being said King County is NOT in phase 2 and sporting activities are NOT outdoor recreation. Surely King County will clarify on way or the other because it is confusing the way it’s worded. King County sent their modified Phase application before Inslee opened up youth sports in Phase 2, so that is probably why it isn’t yet included.

That’s just not right. In what world are sports not outdoor recreation? The King County guidelines issued yesterday say, unambiguously and in plain English, that “nearly all” outdoor activities are allowed at full capacity of Phase 2.

“Nearly all types of activities that are allowed in Phase 2 are allowed in a modified Phase 1, just at lower capacities and with 30-minute time limits for indoor real estate, professional services, and retail services. Generally speaking, modified Phase 1 allows indoor activities at half of the capacity allowed by Phase 2 and at full capacity of what's allowed outdoors in Phase 2.”

If that someone wasn’t clear enough, they go on to say that “all” fitness and outdoor recreation are in Phase 2 of the state safe start plan, which specifically allows organized youth sports. King County doesn’t need to clarify anything, and no one should be waiting for them to do so— just like when they say “all” professional services, retail, restaurants, etc may now operate in accordance with the guidelines. There’s nothing that requires further guidance for youth soccer’s little corner of the world of outdoor recreation and fitness or any other one.

[Unregistered]

I don’t disagree, but I’m telling you that in Inslees world soccer is not considered outdoor recreation or fitness. The Governors office has previously stated this. Are there any clubs practicing? If it was approved, I imagine clubs would have been out within hours.

[Unregistered]

I don’t disagree, but I’m telling you that in Inslees world soccer is not considered outdoor recreation or fitness. The Governors office has previously stated this. Are there any clubs practicing? If it was approved, I imagine clubs would have been out within hours.

What you seem to be missing is the youth sport specific phase 2 guidance Inslee’s office issued yesterday. Their prior guidance on paddleboards, atv’s and whatnot were other specific applications of the more general categories of outdoor recreation and fitness, as is the new specific phase guidance on youth sports (the prior memos said that further guidance on other categories of outdoor activities would be forthcoming, and now we have it). If I were a club president or director or league administrator I would be 100% confident securing a field and starting practice in accordance with the guidelines, although whether the local parks and rec offices and school districts are making them available yet is a different question.

[Unregistered]

I’m not missing anything. I have talked to state and local health districts, facility managers, and state representatives.

[Unregistered]

I’m not missing anything. I have talked to state and local health districts, facility managers, and state representatives.

You’ve talked to these people since the state’s youth sport-specific phase 2 guidance came out yesterday indicating that youth sports training could commence immediately (except for hockey)? And someone from King County from the state told you “when we said ‘all,’ we meant something else” or “I’m not sure what ‘all’ means,” or “to be extra safe I’m going to make sure the governor’s office meant ‘all’ when they said ‘all,’” or something along those lines? At some point people need to trust the responsible people in their organizations and their communities to just make decisions in accordance with the guidelines; it is not reasonable expect state or local officials to be knowledgeable about or to have the time or ability to weigh in on every specific application in every particular field of activity.

[Unregistered]

It’s doesn’t say “all” it says “nearly all.” I have also talked to US Youth, US Club, and our general counsel. On a daily basis, sometimes, a hourly basis, and yes since the updated guidance came out.
...we aren’t training until it is approved because the kids and coaches will not be insured. It’s a global pandemic, the kids will be fine waiting an extra week or 2. If your club or player is training, I would do some research and ask some questions. The parent FOMO you are exhibiting is ridiculous. Plenty of people with MD after their names are calling this a health crisis, we can wait a bit to play sports.

[Unregistered]

It’s doesn’t say “all” it says “nearly all.” I have also talked to US Youth, US Club, and our general counsel. On a daily basis, sometimes, a hourly basis, and yes since the updated guidance came out.
...we aren’t training until it is approved because the kids and coaches will not be insured. It’s a global pandemic, the kids will be fine waiting an extra week or 2. If your club or player is training, I would do some research and ask some questions. The parent FOMO you are exhibiting is ridiculous. Plenty of people with MD after their names are calling this a health crisis, we can wait a bit to play sports.

Can someone tell me what insurance is for? I have never heard a club or facility cover anything for injuries. What am i missing?

[Unregistered]

It’s doesn’t say “all” it says “nearly all.” I have also talked to US Youth, US Club, and our general counsel. On a daily basis, sometimes, a hourly basis, and yes since the updated guidance came out.
...we aren’t training until it is approved because the kids and coaches will not be insured. It’s a global pandemic, the kids will be fine waiting an extra week or 2. If your club or player is training, I would do some research and ask some questions. The parent FOMO you are exhibiting is ridiculous. Plenty of people with MD after their names are calling this a health crisis, we can wait a bit to play sports.

It’s not parent fomo and in no way diminishes the public health crisis. It’s a plain, common sense reading of the guidance the state has issued, and a suggestion to be proactive and realistic about what state and local officials can and can’t be expected to do. There’s a wide range of opinions amongst people with MD’s attached to their name, among lawyers, and among lots of others, but that’s not really the point — anyone who isn’t comfortable returning under the state guidelines even though they’ve been blessed by public health officials who are (reasonably) more cautious than those in most other states can still stay home. I totally agree with acting prudently in response to the pandemic, and believe the local governments and local and national soccer organizations have done a good job in preparing sensible return to play guidelines that comport with public health needs. But there isn’t anything in the King County guidelines that suggests youth sports aren’t among “all” fitness and outdoor recreation activities (the state sports guidelines even cross-reference the state rec guidelines in the first paragraph and refer to adult recreational teams), or that youth sports played in accordance with the guidelines aren’t among the “nearly all” activities that may be conducted in King County in accordance with the phase 2 guidelines. State and local officials have enough to deal with working with every restaurant and business that is trying to open up in accordance with the guidelines (as well as the protests). Urging parents to call their state representatives about youth soccer opening up and expecting state officials to go back to the well and provide more specific guidance on youth soccer isn’t, in my view, a necessary, reasonable, or practical approach— I can’t imagine a state rep saying anything more than “I don’t know, I’ll check into it,” and taking that approach will likely just lead to unnecessary bureaucratic delay that doesn’t serve any public health interest. Of course, any club or league seeking to reopen needs the written safety plan required by the guidelines (which WSYSA, ECNL, US Club, USYSA and and PSPL all do and any club could adopt). Here’s what I’d suggest as a model communication from leagues or clubs to local parks and rec bodies and field admins, with a cc to the relevant state and local officials (and, if relevant, your insurer):
“Our [club/league] appreciates the hard work of state and local officials in navigating the pandemic and crafting safe start guidelines to ensure that people can return to work, athletic, and recreational activities in a stepwise fashion as safely as possible under the Safe Start Washington reopening plans. The Sporting Activities guidelines for Phases 2 and 3 of Safe Start Washington reopening issued by Governor Inslee on June 5 provide that youth sports organizations may begin training immediately under Phase 2. King County’s Safe Start guidelines approved by the State and issued on June 5 also provide that, “generally speaking,” King County’s modified Phase 1 allows outdoor activities at full capacity of Phase 2, and that all outdoor recreational and fitness activities may operate in accordance with Phase 2 guidance, with no stated exception for youth sports. In accordance with that guidance, our organization will be returning to play beginning on June 8. Consistent with the guidance, our league will be operating in accordance with published return to play guidelines that were crafted in conjunction with medical professionals and that are as stringent or more so than those required by the state and county guidelines. The guidelines the [club/league] will be following are posted on our web site at this link ____ and are being communicated to all staff, coaches, players, and parents in our organization. We are grateful to the helpful guidance that has been provided by state and local officials on these important public health matters, we take seriously public health concerns underlying that guidance, and we look forward to returning to play in accordance with that guidance. Please advise if there are any questions or concerns about our reopening in accordance with our understanding of the public health guidance the state and county have provided.”

[Unregistered]

#facepalm

[Unregistered]

I dunno. You may have spoken to " state and local health districts, facility managers, and state representatives" AND "US Youth, US Club, and our general counsel" in a 24-48 hour period. Seems legit. But that's what you WANT me to think.

I'm going to see what people on Facebook and Nextdoor have to say about it, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

[Unregistered]

Sounds like you should just start your own club since you have it figured out Karen.

[Unregistered]

Can someone tell me what insurance is for? I have never heard a club or facility cover anything for injuries. What am i missing?

Right, I’m not following this supposed insurance issue. People either have health insurance or they don’t, and if they do they won’t lose their health insurance because they got Covid at soccer practice.

If the concern is that someone will claim a club or facility was negligent, and thereby caused someone to contract covid, operating reasonably and in accordance with state guidelines would likely be a defense to that hypothetical claim (which would also have a bunch of other challenges for anyone wanting to bring it), but that’s not an insurance issue.

If the concern is that facilities’ CGL policies might not provide coverage if some coach or player gets sick and claims their disease resulted from the operation of the club/facility, I’d be curious about the advice that running a club/facility in accordance with state guidelines (or, indeed, even negligently, as CGL policies typically protect insureds against the costs of their own or their employees’ negligence) would somehow result in the forfeiture of coverage.