Odp 2016

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I think its a huge mischaracterization to say that most club soccer parents are paying $10,000 for their kid, esp. for the so called dabblers. As previously discussed, that type of expenditure is reserved for the elite players getting private training and jumping on planes for games. The vast majority of club players are training 2x week at a local field and driving an hour to a field on Sundays for a game and paying $1,500-$2,000/year. And the light at end of the tunnel is pretty clear, kids want to simply play on their HS teams some day and club soccer is an avenue to develop and accomplish that goal. Its the same model for club softball, AAU basketball, etc. Those paying $10,000 a year either have a legit talented athlete capable of getting a college scholarship or are being sold an overly exaggerated path of glory by the club.

You are just wrong because the average family is doing a heck of a lot more than just travelling an hour for a game even at the NEP level. Heck some families are travelling that hour you cite each way just to practice. The average average team might not be travelling down to Disney or out to San Diego but many of them are going beyond New England for tournaments at this point.

I wonder just how many of these posters who are saying that they are only spending $1500-$2000 a year actually have children playing these days. That certainly isn't our experience nor what I am seeing out there amongst the other families I know involved with club soccer.

[Unregistered]

Parents like this are the ones responsible for the disgusting run up in club soccer costs. They will put their child on a team and think nothing of spending anywhere from 30-100K without having anymore expectation that their child will have fond memories. Club soccer has become more about conspicuous consumption than it is about playing soccer.

Completely disagree. I see families like this on our club's C team -- they aren't really committed, and are spending the $$$ for the good coaching etc. BUT -- I also see that those kids are going to get cut next year (the club goes from 3 teams to 2). Our coach has said that letters have gone out to those families saying they need to step up their attendance or they will be kicked off the team now.

All of you bemoaning the costs etc -- this is true in so many sports!! Life just isn't fair, and those with more money have better opportunities. (Not that I'm arguing this is right, or fair; just that this is the reality).

I ride horses -- talk about an expensive sport!! And no college scholarships to even dream about. Why do people do it, and make sacrifices just like people playing soccer? Because it is fun! Because there is satisfaction in being the best you can be. the poster above seems to think that if you have this mindset, you can't be serious about soccer. Why not?

We hear on TS all the time about how parents are "deluded" and think their kids have more talent than they really do. Why is it wrong to just let the soccer journey take you where it will? Maybe my son will stop playing soccer in two years (unlikely, but we can't know the future). Maybe he will play professionally. (Very unlikely! Though his coach just said he has that potential. Again -- we can't know the future). But why cut anything off based on guesses about what might or might not happen?

Though I have this perspective on soccer, let me say that my son has a lot of drive -- my laissez-faire approach doesn't mean my son is kicking back and saying "whatever" to himself. He's the hardest working player on the team, and this is getting noticed.

The single biggest predictor of success -- probably in anything, not just soccer -- is DRIVE and determination. I'm certain there are super-talented soccer players, but unless they also have drive and a strong work ethic they are going nowhere. A former coach (of ECNL teams) told me that he could pick out the kids that were going to go far. It was not the most talented. It was the ones with drive.

Just because I have no particular expectation of a particular outcome, how does that mean my son isn't serious or that he's the scourge of club soccer everywhere?

There isn't ever one size that fits all. Some kids won't be able to afford club soccer, and will still get ahead. Some are in states WITHOUT club soccer and they get ahead (I'm thinking of my friends who live in Wyoming, whose daughter ended up playing for the University of Georgia, D1, on a full scholarship!). And yes, some kids who are upper middle class will also get ahead.

[Unregistered]

Parents like this are the ones responsible for the disgusting run up in club soccer costs. They will put their child on a team and think nothing of spending anywhere from 30-100K without having anymore expectation that their child will have fond memories. Club soccer has become more about conspicuous consumption than it is about playing soccer.

You have an assumption in this post: what exactly is the "disgusting" run-up in club soccer costs? Can you explain how clubs can charge less and provide the same services?

Personally (yes, I'm ready for the firestorm) I think club soccer costs are entirely reasonable. For my $2,700-odd, my son got 3 training sessions (1/1/2 hours long each) a week plus a game this fall (down to two sessions + game indoors this winter). His coach is a former international player, with a good license, who happens to understand this age group -- we parents think he walks on water. (A coach like this costs money) They play (in another state) at the best facility in the state ($$$ upkeep and insurance/overhead). Uniforms/backpack etc are included (worth about $350). Tournament fees are included. (We only go to 3 "away" tournaments a year, so travel isn't exhorbitant). I don't think these fees are crazy for what I get.

[Unregistered]

Odp 2016

I wonder just how many of these posters who are saying that they are only spending $1500-$2000 a year actually have children playing these days. That certainly isn't our experience nor what I am seeing out there amongst the other families I know involved with club soccer.

Check out FC Boston. $1,700 HS/$1,300 for U14 and under (includes full year training, fall and spring leagues play, 3 tournaments, but excludes uniforms). WUP, FC Mass, & JSSA in that range. Liverpool even lower. I've had experience with all these, with 3 playing right now. Obviously not ECNL/NPL/Super Elite players in my house, so no plane rides to games.

I live in Central Mass, so drive time to most all away games is an hour or so. But I do understand families in Eastern & Western Mass might have 2 hour drives for a few Sundays a year.

[Unregistered]

I'm not the poster you are responding to. But you are setting up a false dichotomy. Why can't someone do both? Go on vacation AND play club soccer! Yes, it is actually possible to do both.

I absolutely will agree that you don't need club soccer, necessarily, to be the best soccer player you can be, but in this country, now, it is the clearest path to good coaching etc and becoming a good soccer player. I am the poster who said there is merit in just being the best you can be at something, whatever it is.

Do you realize that you are the type of parent all of the other complain about? You are the one who signs their kid up for a club team then has them blow off most of the winter training sessions so you can go skiing. You'll also pull your kid during either the February or April vacations to some place warm or blow off games/practices when they don't fit your schedule. You send the very clear message to everyone (including your kids) that soccer is just not that important. No one actually begrudges your vacations at all but most like you simply don't care that your lack of commitment infects the entire team and negatively impacts the experience for the rest of the families. Your lack of commitment shows up everywhere from how the team practices to how your kid plays on the field. It sux to be on a team with your type.

Go over and read a bunch of the newbie threads. Half of them are about you. Most parents get started with club soccer to escape your type at the town level. They come to club soccer expecting that everyone will have the same level of commitment as them and their kids but then realize that you followed them. That more so than anything is what starts them climbing the intensity/cost ladder in club soccer. They are trying to get away from you and find a group that will consistently show up and play hard. The sad part is that idea that the more elite the soccer the more committed the commitment is just a fantasy dished out by the clubs to sell their roster spots. What really happens is you just follow because you want your kid to have what the other kids have. You could care less about the soccer but have the money and the clubs like to cash your checks.

I don't care what age group or level you go to, there is always your type there. Your kids are easy to spot because they are the ones running at 3/4 speed or walking up the field in championship games. You spend money on soccer simply because you can and you get your kicks having your kid labeled "elite soccer player". They are far from elite and the sad part is everyone can see that they are nothing but a hanger on but hey maybe it will help with your kid's application to Middlebury. That's the typical sort of landing spot for the face saving crowd, which is what your type typically becomes in high school.

[Unregistered]

Do you realize that you are the type of parent all of the other complain about? You are the one who signs their kid up for a club team then has them blow off most of the winter training sessions so you can go skiing. You'll also pull your kid during either the February or April vacations to some place warm or blow off games/practices when they don't fit your schedule. You send the very clear message to everyone (including your kids) that soccer is just not that important. No one actually begrudges your vacations at all but most like you simply don't care that your lack of commitment infects the entire team and negatively impacts the experience for the rest of the families. Your lack of commitment shows up everywhere from how the team practices to how your kid plays on the field. It sux to be on a team with your type.

Go over and read a bunch of the newbie threads. Half of them are about you. Most parents get started with club soccer to escape your type at the town level. They come to club soccer expecting that everyone will have the same level of commitment as them and their kids but then realize that you followed them. That more so than anything is what starts them climbing the intensity/cost ladder in club soccer. They are trying to get away from you and find a group that will consistently show up and play hard. The sad part is that idea that the more elite the soccer the more committed the commitment is just a fantasy dished out by the clubs to sell their roster spots. What really happens is you just follow because you want your kid to have what the other kids have. You could care less about the soccer but have the money and the clubs like to cash your checks.

I don't care what age group or level you go to, there is always your type there. Your kids are easy to spot because they are the ones running at 3/4 speed or walking up the field in championship games. You spend money on soccer simply because you can and you get your kicks having your kid labeled "elite soccer player". They are far from elite and the sad part is everyone can see that they are nothing but a hanger on but hey maybe it will help with your kid's application to Middlebury. That's the typical sort of landing spot for the face saving crowd, which is what your type typically becomes in high school.

Wrong-o buddy. I'm also the poster with the son who's the hardest working on the team (has NEVER missed a ractice unless he was sick, which has been exactly once). The one who's son is being noticed for his drive, first by his coach, and now by the director of coaching. The one who's being moved up a level in the spring, and who's being talked about moving up again next year (admittedly, he's helped by the birth year change -- he's young on the team now, and will be an older player next year).

This is why I write -- because there are SO MANY assumptions by TS posters!! (And those rich, entitled parents you write about -- they are not on ts -- you are right, they DON'T care much about soccer!).

Again, no one size fits all. Not sure why not planning on a college scholarship -- which others will say one would be crazy to think about -- means my child and I are not serious about soccer.

Here's my point: you can be very serious and dedicated to a sport (or any activity) without having a definite goal in mind. In terms of soccer, there are a bunch of possible outcomes on the radar screen, and yes, it is helpful if you are aware of them. But you can have as your overriding goal just being the best you can be.

(That's called Intrinsic motivation, and is the most powerful kind of motivation.)

[Unregistered]

More on Intrinsic Motivation:
Description
Intrinsic motivation is when I am motivated by internal factors, as opposed to the external drivers of extrinsic motivation. Intrinsic motivation drives me to do things just for the fun of it, or because I believe it is a good or right thing to do.

There is a paradox of intrinsic and extrinsic motivation. Intrinsic motivation is far stronger a motivator than extrinsic motivation, yet external motivation can easily act to displace intrinsic motivation (see the Overjustification Effect).

Deci and Ryan identified three needs that lead to intrinsic motivation:

Competence: succeeding in what you do.
Relatedness: connecting with others.
Autonomy: being in control of your life.
Example
Most people's hobbies are intrinsically motivated. Notice the passion with which people collect little bits of china or build detailed model ships. Few people carry that amount of passion into their workplace.

[Unregistered]

You have an assumption in this post: what exactly is the "disgusting" run-up in club soccer costs? Can you explain how clubs can charge less and provide the same services?

Personally (yes, I'm ready for the firestorm) I think club soccer costs are entirely reasonable. For my $2,700-odd, my son got 3 training sessions (1/1/2 hours long each) a week plus a game this fall (down to two sessions + game indoors this winter). His coach is a former international player, with a good license, who happens to understand this age group -- we parents think he walks on water. (A coach like this costs money) They play (in another state) at the best facility in the state ($$$ upkeep and insurance/overhead). Uniforms/backpack etc are included (worth about $350). Tournament fees are included. (We only go to 3 "away" tournaments a year, so travel isn't exhorbitant). I don't think these fees are crazy for what I get.

I offer this to give some of you a little different vantage point. I've been doing club soccer for roughly 15 years now. When I started with my oldest child (who went on to play in college) the club fee was $500 and that was the top end of the market back then. The first time she was on a team that left the state for a tournament was U13 and we only went to Nashua and Rhode Island. All of the league games were in state (most within the 495 belt). The following year as a U14 we went to WAGS (which got rained out) and up state NY for tournaments and all of our league games were within the state of Mass. Back then the mindset was that there was a build up to the U16 year when all the recruiting took place. Basically you did 12-18 months of heavy travelling and then were substantially done with it. If a team needed competition they would just push it up in age groups in some local tournament rather than travel to some far flung one. That is just very different from what is going on right now.

[Unregistered]

Wrong-o buddy. I'm also the poster with the son who's the hardest working on the team (has NEVER missed a ractice unless he was sick, which has been exactly once). The one who's son is being noticed for his drive, first by his coach, and now by the director of coaching. The one who's being moved up a level in the spring, and who's being talked about moving up again next year (admittedly, he's helped by the birth year change -- he's young on the team now, and will be an older player next year).

This is why I write -- because there are SO MANY assumptions by TS posters!! (And those rich, entitled parents you write about -- they are not on ts -- you are right, they DON'T care much about soccer!).

Again, no one size fits all. Not sure why not planning on a college scholarship -- which others will say one would be crazy to think about -- means my child and I are not serious about soccer.

Here's my point: you can be very serious and dedicated to a sport (or any activity) without having a definite goal in mind. In terms of soccer, there are a bunch of possible outcomes on the radar screen, and yes, it is helpful if you are aware of them. But you can have as your overriding goal just being the best you can be.

(That's called Intrinsic motivation, and is the most powerful kind of motivation.)

The "YOU" was not directed at you. Don't take it so personal. Since this is an anonymous forum we are all essentially talking about characterizations of groups of people rather than individuals. Just because YOU personally don't fit the exact characterization hopefully you can recognize that there are many around on the sidelines who it does characterize pretty accurately.

[Unregistered]

I offer this to give some of you a little different vantage point. I've been doing club soccer for roughly 15 years now. When I started with my oldest child (who went on to play in college) the club fee was $500 and that was the top end of the market back then. The first time she was on a team that left the state for a tournament was U13 and we only went to Nashua and Rhode Island. All of the league games were in state (most within the 495 belt). The following year as a U14 we went to WAGS (which got rained out) and up state NY for tournaments and all of our league games were within the state of Mass. Back then the mindset was that there was a build up to the U16 year when all the recruiting took place. Basically you did 12-18 months of heavy travelling and then were substantially done with it. If a team needed competition they would just push it up in age groups in some local tournament rather than travel to some far flung one. That is just very different from what is going on right now.

Thank you, this is an excellent answer. The cost of money has gone up, so that $500 15 years ago, would probably cost something like $1500 now -- still less than what we are paying for Club today.

It seems like the "runup" really is in tournament and out of state play at earlier and earlier ages. I probably agree with you that it really isn't necessary at those ages.

[Unregistered]

Wrong-o buddy. I'm also the poster with the son who's the hardest working on the team (has NEVER missed a ractice unless he was sick, which has been exactly once). The one who's son is being noticed for his drive, first by his coach, and now by the director of coaching. The one who's being moved up a level in the spring, and who's being talked about moving up again next year (admittedly, he's helped by the birth year change -- he's young on the team now, and will be an older player next year).

This is why I write -- because there are SO MANY assumptions by TS posters!! (And those rich, entitled parents you write about -- they are not on ts -- you are right, they DON'T care much about soccer!).

Again, no one size fits all. Not sure why not planning on a college scholarship -- which others will say one would be crazy to think about -- means my child and I are not serious about soccer.

Here's my point: you can be very serious and dedicated to a sport (or any activity) without having a definite goal in mind. In terms of soccer, there are a bunch of possible outcomes on the radar screen, and yes, it is helpful if you are aware of them. But you can have as your overriding goal just being the best you can be.

(That's called Intrinsic motivation, and is the most powerful kind of motivation.)

It comes down to the whole is the juice worth the squeeze thought process. No one but you knows how old your children are or how much you are really spending but the assumption is that if you are actively involved in club soccer in Massachusetts you are spending somewhere between $5-15K per year. If I had to guess I say probably closer to the former for you but plenty of us know that there are more than a few other parents out there thinking the exact same as you that are spending the latter. Now if your kid is just starting out that means you are committing yourself to spending roughly $35K at a minimum which is a fairly significant investment. There are others spending a lot more. Each family has there own threshold where they balk. Just because you haven't reached yours don't assume that everyone else isn't looking at what is in front of them and balking at it.

[Unregistered]

Odp 2016

Thank you, this is an excellent answer. The cost of money has gone up, so that $500 15 years ago, would probably cost something like $1500 now -- still less than what we are paying for Club today.

It seems like the "runup" really is in tournament and out of state play at earlier and earlier ages. I probably agree with you that it really isn't necessary at those ages.

That is a good comparison to 15 years ago. I'd suspect that 15 years ago winter training was not done, and that is a big cost for club teams today, possibly their biggest line item. Also, probably more daddy coaches back then that you didn't have pay much for, if anything. For any club fee over $1,500 today, its likely due to more demand/less supply and more profit taking.

[Unregistered]

Just because you haven't reached yours don't assume that everyone else isn't looking at what is in front of them and balking at it.

I assume nothing about other posters. As I believe I've said a few times -- there is no one size fits all. Some people can't afford club soccer, some people can afford to send their kids to Europe. That's life. Some people can't afford to take one riding lesson a week; others, like Georgina Bloomberg, spends literally millions on her horses. is it fair? Nope, but that's life. And as you say, everyone will draw their line at different places.

As for the "entitled parents" issue -- at least at our club, I do see them, but I also see that they don't last long. They are NOT willing to put in the effort it takes; and as a result they get booted pretty early on. Perhaps this isn't true of all clubs.

[Unregistered]

It comes down to the whole is the juice worth the squeeze thought process.

Yes, it does. We agree on this. Where I've found disagreement is that some people don't believe that "doing something for its own sake" is worth the "juice".

I don't think it is enough for EVERYBODY, but it is enough for some people.

[Unregistered]

Do you realize that you are the type of parent all of the other complain about? You are the one who signs their kid up for a club team then has them blow off most of the winter training sessions so you can go skiing. You'll also pull your kid during either the February or April vacations to some place warm or blow off games/practices when they don't fit your schedule. You send the very clear message to everyone (including your kids) that soccer is just not that important. No one actually begrudges your vacations at all but most like you simply don't care that your lack of commitment infects the entire team and negatively impacts the experience for the rest of the families. Your lack of commitment shows up everywhere from how the team practices to how your kid plays on the field. It sux to be on a team with your type.

Go over and read a bunch of the newbie threads. Half of them are about you. Most parents get started with club soccer to escape your type at the town level. They come to club soccer expecting that everyone will have the same level of commitment as them and their kids but then realize that you followed them. That more so than anything is what starts them climbing the intensity/cost ladder in club soccer. They are trying to get away from you and find a group that will consistently show up and play hard. The sad part is that idea that the more elite the soccer the more committed the commitment is just a fantasy dished out by the clubs to sell their roster spots. What really happens is you just follow because you want your kid to have what the other kids have. You could care less about the soccer but have the money and the clubs like to cash your checks.

I don't care what age group or level you go to, there is always your type there. Your kids are easy to spot because they are the ones running at 3/4 speed or walking up the field in championship games. You spend money on soccer simply because you can and you get your kicks having your kid labeled "elite soccer player". They are far from elite and the sad part is everyone can see that they are nothing but a hanger on but hey maybe it will help with your kid's application to Middlebury. That's the typical sort of landing spot for the face saving crowd, which is what your type typically becomes in high school.

You sound jealous of the parents you describe. they are represented on teams but its still not the money that got them there. Like it or not, their darlings do contribute enough to keep them there. Clubs sell their brand on winning scenarios. If the kid is not going to help them get wins then they will be gone. they understand that 98% of the kids on these teams that you describe will not be making a career out of it. If you can not afford the situation then take yourself out of it. You try to make it sound like you are the only person who knows what kind of situation they are in. Are you going to advocate for all the families that send their kids for higher education, even thought they know the degree will not translate into higher pay. Many middle class families taken the college route for their kid to no avail. Are they not in need of your saving.