Thoughts on BU12-14 age group?

[Unregistered]

I'm sorry, but this is stupid and wrong.

First of all, what do you mean by a "Hispanic" team? Is that limited to teams like 4H or LAFC or Santos, where the coach speaks Spanish to the players? What about teams like Capital or HSC? Or for that matter, the traditional alpha dogs of the boys HS ranks, Westside? Lots of Latino players on all of these. Looking at recent state cup results, there always seems to be at least one "Latino" team on the leaderboard (either as champion or runner-up).

Second, neither 4H nor UPDX have been around long enough to have "documented" any trajectory in high school at all. ADF's 04 team got to the semis last spring, they don't really have any team older than that. Their 05s are easily one of the favorites this year (along with Westside, Eugene, OPFC if they can recover from a poor summer season, Cuervos if they can keep out of the referee's book, and possibly UPDX who I haven't yet seen play this season but now has a dungeon full of Slytherins). And UPDX did have a state cup finalist in the high school ranks in the club's first year of existence--the big question is whether their recruiting spree will lead to a sustainable foundation. Many players and families from the old BSC and NEU seem to be annoyed that their kids aren't being developed and promoted as promised, instead the club seems more interested in poaching established players from other clubs and giving Timbers castoffs a home, so mommy won't have to endure the humiliation of going back to the old club.

Amazed you were able to turn that into taking swipes at UPDX - well played!

[Unregistered]

Liking your own posts.
With No replies to your weird obsession, except your own.
Same ole, Same ole.
.

Like

From Anonymous Original Poster (and author of second lengthy tirade several comments back that you most recently maligned):

You think I liked my own post. I am certainly impressed with my own writing, but not narcissistically so. Other people liked it and commented. Carry on with your visceral angry reaction to anything positive.

[Unregistered]

Hispanic boys teams are usually very good from u11 to u14 but pretty much irrelevant in club soccer after u15. ADF & United 'whatever' have documented the same trajectory as the 'Hispanic' teams.

Is this really a thread? or just another exercise in describing the inevitable outcomes.

Captain Obvious.

Having read this again, I'd like to circle back on the Hispanic-boys-irrelevancy comment. Considering that most of the best players the US soccer community develops at older ages are at least close to majority Hispanic (TA roster, dominant SoCal/TX/AZ clubs, USMNT, etc) how does that statement hold water? Methinks your writing-off of most of the most talented and dedicated kids playing the game is at best myopic. I'll leave it at that.

[Unregistered]

Having read this again, I'd like to circle back on the Hispanic-boys-irrelevancy comment. Considering that most of the best players the US soccer community develops at older ages are at least close to majority Hispanic (TA roster, dominant SoCal/TX/AZ clubs, USMNT, etc) how does that statement hold water? Methinks your writing-off of most of the most talented and dedicated kids playing the game is at best myopic. I'll leave it at that.

It simply doesn't hold water.

Further, anyone who uses "inevitable outcomes" in a sentence about youth soccer is grumpy and full of it.

The more one is around youth soccer, the less predictable it becomes, in my "sort of" humble opinion.

[Unregistered]

Amazed you were able to turn that into taking swipes at UPDX - well played!

It's important and noble work.

[Unregistered]

It simply doesn't hold water.

Further, anyone who uses "inevitable outcomes" in a sentence about youth soccer is grumpy and full of it.

The more one is around youth soccer, the less predictable it becomes, in my "sort of" humble opinion.

Here is another interpretation.

Keep in mind this talking soccer (just) OREGON.

The early developers that physically and tactically plateau around 15 or 16 who were top dogs at u11 to u14 typically fade away into the general soccer rec/hs/classic category.

Yes that is indeed, inevitable.

[Unregistered]

I'm sorry, but this is stupid and wrong.

First of all, what do you mean by a "Hispanic" team? Is that limited to teams like 4H or LAFC or Santos, where the coach speaks Spanish to the players? What about teams like Capital or HSC? Or for that matter, the traditional alpha dogs of the boys HS ranks, Westside? Lots of Latino players on all of these. Looking at recent state cup results, there always seems to be at least one "Latino" team on the leaderboard (either as champion or runner-up).

Second, neither 4H nor UPDX have been around long enough to have "documented" any trajectory in high school at all. ADF's 04 team got to the semis last spring, they don't really have any team older than that. Their 05s are easily one of the favorites this year (along with Westside, Eugene, OPFC if they can recover from a poor summer season, Cuervos if they can keep out of the referee's book, and possibly UPDX who I haven't yet seen play this season but now has a dungeon full of Slytherins). And UPDX did have a state cup finalist in the high school ranks in the club's first year of existence--the big question is whether their recruiting spree will lead to a sustainable foundation. Many players and families from the old BSC and NEU seem to be annoyed that their kids aren't being developed and promoted as promised, instead the club seems more interested in poaching established players from other clubs and giving Timbers castoffs a home, so mommy won't have to endure the humiliation of going back to the old club.

Einstein

Santos, woodburn. Rpsc, lasc have all been here for a long time. Migrating the oysa eventually.

ADF has a crap show of a 02 team.

BSC aka United PDX has been around for 2 decades.
Just like gentrified NEU who has a rec core and a rotten pimp recruiting DA washouts.

Never contenders, just pretenders.

Flash in the pan, maybe.






Another useless knob falls off the door.

[Unregistered]

Einstein

Santos, woodburn. Rpsc, lasc have all been here for a long time. Migrating the oysa eventually.

Your last sentence makes no sense. Not a grammar flame, instead wondering WTH you mean.

Well aware the Latino clubs have been here for a long time. They often show up in the elimination rounds of State Cup. Until recently, boys HS soccer has been dominated by Westside. Now TA is the destination for the top boys players, and we have more parity; WT still does very well but last year only won 2 boys HS state cups, rather than 4-5 of them. Which leaves little room, historically, for anyone else, including many of the Latino clubs.

ADF has a crap show of a 02 team.

ADF has never been good above 04; the club basically started 4 years ago and started with an 04 team (U11s at the time, before the age group change) that partnered with LASC. Won State Cup. Since then, ADF has been strong in younger age groups. But beyond that, they have little history in high school.

BSC aka United PDX has been around for 2 decades.
Just like gentrified NEU who has a rec core and a rotten pimp recruiting DA washouts.

Fair enough, both of UPDXs predecessors were reccish clubs without much HS history. Since UPDX has a new business model and has grown (size-wise) beyond either of these two clubs, I'm deliberately discounting this history and treating UPDX as a brand-new club. UPDX did have one HS team in the State Cup finals last year; if I'm not mistaken this was the TA-washout-dominated team that won it with FC the year before, and which moved with BM to the new club.

Some of the younger UPDX teams (06, 07) they can claim some organic development for. But the UPDX South teams are rebadged Latino teams, and the 02, 04, and 05 teams are dominated by ex-TA players.

[Unregistered]

ADF simply falls apart after it's honeymoon early years born from pied piper, solo training infomercial practices on the gullible early developer parents. Let's point the finger to their complete lack of any development, coaching or clue one about teaching children how to play the game as their own inherent future demise.

Looking at the recent HS State Cup results, WST still remains relevant at nearly every hs age vs all the other clubs combined efforts. WSM boys were gutted to it's core around 2013 by the TA DA yet still remains relevant today which is simply astounding. They have won no less that 2 to 7 titles every year since 2013 based on the OYSA fact sheet.

The TA older DA teams don't have much impact these days on older aged local club teams, unless you consider the garbage collection of their washouts by clueless tools chasing low hanging fruit. Too few Oregonians feature on their older TA DA teams to gut any one club or move the talent pool needle. Traffic congestion, population growth and the desire to make money at a pay to play club for folks who don't want to enter the traditional workforce have a much stronger hand in the parity and dilution.

NEU & BSC are still here, re branding them doesn't change them. Maybe in today's world you can tell people you identify as a non binary being, . But males typically have two different kinds of sex chromosomes (XY), and are called the heterogametic sex. Re branding is a marketing tool that can't erase your actual dna. btw calling woodburn teams PDX united South is simply a fantastic exaggeration of geography and reality. But try as they may in peddling their own myths..

The last sentence is intended not to make sense, seems the consistent theme.

Just playing along.

Your last sentence makes no sense. Not a grammar flame, instead wondering WTH you mean.

Well aware the Latino clubs have been here for a long time. They often show up in the elimination rounds of State Cup. Until recently, boys HS soccer has been dominated by Westside. Now TA is the destination for the top boys players, and we have more parity; WT still does very well but last year only won 2 boys HS state cups, rather than 4-5 of them. Which leaves little room, historically, for anyone else, including many of the Latino clubs.ADF has never been good above 04; the club basically started 4 years ago and started with an 04 team (U11s at the time, before the age group change) that partnered with LASC. Won State Cup. Since then, ADF has been strong in younger age groups. But beyond that, they have little history in high school.Fair enough, both of UPDXs predecessors were reccish clubs without much HS history. Since UPDX has a new business model and has grown (size-wise) beyond either of these two clubs, I'm deliberately discounting this history and treating UPDX as a brand-new club. UPDX did have one HS team in the State Cup finals last year; if I'm not mistaken this was the TA-washout-dominated team that won it with FC the year before, and which moved with BM to the new club.Some of the younger UPDX teams (06, 07) they can claim some organic development for. But the UPDX South teams are rebadged Latino teams, and the 02, 04, and 05 teams are dominated by ex-TA players.

[Unregistered]

Hispanic boys teams are usually very good from u11 to u14 but pretty much irrelevant in club soccer after u15. ADF & United 'whatever' have documented the same trajectory as the 'Hispanic' teams.

Is this really a thread? or just another exercise in describing the inevitable outcomes.

Captain Obvious.

Get'n hated on but a lot of truth here, especially; "Hispanic boys teams" dropping off. I'm in one of those clubs. It's true. When their kids, they play, like a job. As they get older, it's not just that money, cars, shoes becomes a priority and a major distraction, it's their moms and dads don't support them. In fact many, are pitching in. If they want shoes, they got to make the money to buy it. Plenty of white kids and others that have it the same, and plenty of latino kids that don't...but the culture and the norm is...when you are old enough to work, you start working. These kids are working full time at crap menial jobs at 15 instead of playing. You'll still see them play in parks, and for their HS, and Sunday league with their dad. But Saturday isn't for a TTL game anymore, it's for a full shift at minimum wage.

[Unregistered]

Get'n hated on but a lot of truth here, especially; "Hispanic boys teams" dropping off. I'm in one of those clubs. It's true. When their kids, they play, like a job. As they get older, it's not just that money, cars, shoes becomes a priority and a major distraction, it's their moms and dads don't support them. In fact many, are pitching in. If they want shoes, they got to make the money to buy it. Plenty of white kids and others that have it the same, and plenty of latino kids that don't...but the culture and the norm is...when you are old enough to work, you start working. These kids are working full time at crap menial jobs at 15 instead of playing. You'll still see them play in parks, and for their HS, and Sunday league with their dad. But Saturday isn't for a TTL game anymore, it's for a full shift at minimum wage.

They mature so young by HS age most are ready for the next chapter as adults with jobs etc. Ahead of the social developmental curve in life, but they peaked at soccer at age 14 to 16 so it's not like clubs are losing future pros or college stars due to life change.

[Unregistered]

Get'n hated on but a lot of truth here, especially; "Hispanic boys teams" dropping off. I'm in one of those clubs. It's true. When their kids, they play, like a job. As they get older, it's not just that money, cars, shoes becomes a priority and a major distraction, it's their moms and dads don't support them. In fact many, are pitching in. If they want shoes, they got to make the money to buy it. Plenty of white kids and others that have it the same, and plenty of latino kids that don't...but the culture and the norm is...when you are old enough to work, you start working. These kids are working full time at crap menial jobs at 15 instead of playing. You'll still see them play in parks, and for their HS, and Sunday league with their dad. But Saturday isn't for a TTL game anymore, it's for a full shift at minimum wage.

One other thought--and avoiding any ethnic generalizations. Quite a few kids (and parents) enter club soccer with stars in their eyes, thinking they (or their small Salah) is going to go pro. Around 15 is when the last train leaves the station and the local TA player pool is frozen--after that, the Timbers aren't picking any more local kids, they are cutting them.

Quite a few families only put up with the BS and expense of club soccer for this 0.01% chance (of even MAKING the TA, let alone coming out the other side with a contract), and once that 0.01% chance turns into a 0.00% chance, they are out. Still plenty of pickup games, plus HS if you want organized soccer (even if the games are crap), without spending thousands of dollars.

[Unregistered]

One other thought--and avoiding any ethnic generalizations. Quite a few kids (and parents) enter club soccer with stars in their eyes, thinking they (or their small Salah) is going to go pro. Around 15 is when the last train leaves the station and the local TA player pool is frozen--after that, the Timbers aren't picking any more local kids, they are cutting them.

Quite a few families only put up with the BS and expense of club soccer for this 0.01% chance (of even MAKING the TA, let alone coming out the other side with a contract), and once that 0.01% chance turns into a 0.00% chance, they are out. Still plenty of pickup games, plus HS if you want organized soccer (even if the games are crap), without spending thousands of dollars.

Latino adult teams also do a good job bringing in latino kids to play with them in the teenage years. Less of a divide between youth and adult there.

[Unregistered]

The original poster asked about the age group, not the clubs. There are probably about 5 or so boys in each age group that are clearly a cut above the others. The common factor is that most of them have club hopped every year. It’s clear that kids progress much faster when exposed to different training environments. The club you choose is irrelevant and the future backlash that coaches threaten you with when you club hop, simply doesn’t exist.

[Unregistered]

The original poster asked about the age group, not the clubs. There are probably about 5 or so boys in each age group that are clearly a cut above the others. The common factor is that most of them have club hopped every year. It’s clear that kids progress much faster when exposed to different training environments. The club you choose is irrelevant and the future backlash that coaches threaten you with when you club hop, simply doesn’t exist.

That is one way to interrupt OP's questions (and there were several) and boys' soccer at this age.

It does beg a question - is that really the way you want to raise your kids?
signed,

Parent of unexceptional soccer players, but hopefully good teammates (now and in the future) and maybe even leaders