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    Team and PLAYER classification

    Even wonder how your team gets stuck playing an opponent that should be in a rec program? How about sending your kids out to play and finding out that your 2nd level team is taking the pitch against the State Cup Champions? Ask any team manager, they will tell you that registering for soccer tournaments is a royal pain, in large part because of the fact that there is no consistency in division level identification. It is easier if your team is playing at the highest level – or conversely at the bottom level. But figuring out where to register your team so that they are pushed but not pummeled is really hard. Not only do soccer organizations allow teams to self-identify, there is NOTHING that dictates the level of players on that team. You could easily have a player – or several players – from an ECNL team / ODP Regional team (this thread is NOT about whether ECNL/ODP/Thorns are better – so don’t go there) playing with a team that placed middle of the pack in spring league. Fair? Not even close. Add to that the fact that every tournament makes up its own names for levels of play. Just because you’re having a tournament doesn’t mean you have a Premier bracket. If the best teams that are coming are 2nd level teams – then your highest bracket should be Gold.

    Teams should be classified according to standardized measures at the State / Regional / National level. A team should be identified as Premier, Gold, Silver, Bronze (or whatever names suit your fancy). The players on each team should also be categorized with a level. If you are rostered on a Premier team – you are a premier level player, and you cannot play in a Gold or Silver level bracket. Period. If you are a Silver level player, you can play Gold – but no playing down. Soccer is the only sport I have ever seen that allows players to play down. If we had conformity in classifications, we would have much better competition!

    #2
    Agree whole-heartedly!

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
      Even wonder how your team gets stuck playing an opponent that should be in a rec program? How about sending your kids out to play and finding out that your 2nd level team is taking the pitch against the State Cup Champions? Ask any team manager, they will tell you that registering for soccer tournaments is a royal pain, in large part because of the fact that there is no consistency in division level identification. It is easier if your team is playing at the highest level – or conversely at the bottom level. But figuring out where to register your team so that they are pushed but not pummeled is really hard. Not only do soccer organizations allow teams to self-identify, there is NOTHING that dictates the level of players on that team. You could easily have a player – or several players – from an ECNL team / ODP Regional team (this thread is NOT about whether ECNL/ODP/Thorns are better – so don’t go there) playing with a team that placed middle of the pack in spring league. Fair? Not even close. Add to that the fact that every tournament makes up its own names for levels of play. Just because you’re having a tournament doesn’t mean you have a Premier bracket. If the best teams that are coming are 2nd level teams – then your highest bracket should be Gold.

      Teams should be classified according to standardized measures at the State / Regional / National level. A team should be identified as Premier, Gold, Silver, Bronze (or whatever names suit your fancy). The players on each team should also be categorized with a level. If you are rostered on a Premier team – you are a premier level player, and you cannot play in a Gold or Silver level bracket. Period. If you are a Silver level player, you can play Gold – but no playing down. Soccer is the only sport I have ever seen that allows players to play down. If we had conformity in classifications, we would have much better competition!
      Get rid of tournaments all together. That would solve all your issues. Create a summer league to keep the kids playing and I would argue that it would be better development-wise than playing in the "Club Fundraiser Tournament".

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
        Get rid of tournaments all together. That would solve all your issues. Create a summer league to keep the kids playing and I would argue that it would be better development-wise than playing in the "Club Fundraiser Tournament".
        Tournaments are where the higher level competitive teams stretch their wings.
        Besides, if my club isn't doing its Fundraiser Tournament, I'm paying higher club fees. No thanks. I'd rather spend the money taking my kid to a tournament where she sees higher level teams.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
          Get rid of tournaments all together. That would solve all your issues. Create a summer league to keep the kids playing and I would argue that it would be better development-wise than playing in the "Club Fundraiser Tournament".
          Agree whole-heartedly!

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
            Tournaments are where the higher level competitive teams stretch their wings.
            Besides, if my club isn't doing its Fundraiser Tournament, I'm paying higher club fees. No thanks. I'd rather spend the money taking my kid to a tournament where she sees higher level teams.
            Regional leagues would get her higher level teams. Sir/Mam...have you ever played 4-5 soccer games over a weekend? Try it once or twice a month and then tell me if you think it's still a good idea.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
              Even wonder how your team gets stuck playing an opponent that should be in a rec program? How about sending your kids out to play and finding out that your 2nd level team is taking the pitch against the State Cup Champions? Ask any team manager, they will tell you that registering for soccer tournaments is a royal pain, in large part because of the fact that there is no consistency in division level identification. It is easier if your team is playing at the highest level – or conversely at the bottom level. But figuring out where to register your team so that they are pushed but not pummeled is really hard. Not only do soccer organizations allow teams to self-identify, there is NOTHING that dictates the level of players on that team. You could easily have a player – or several players – from an ECNL team / ODP Regional team (this thread is NOT about whether ECNL/ODP/Thorns are better – so don’t go there) playing with a team that placed middle of the pack in spring league. Fair? Not even close. Add to that the fact that every tournament makes up its own names for levels of play. Just because you’re having a tournament doesn’t mean you have a Premier bracket. If the best teams that are coming are 2nd level teams – then your highest bracket should be Gold.

              Teams should be classified according to standardized measures at the State / Regional / National level. A team should be identified as Premier, Gold, Silver, Bronze (or whatever names suit your fancy). The players on each team should also be categorized with a level. If you are rostered on a Premier team – you are a premier level player, and you cannot play in a Gold or Silver level bracket. Period. If you are a Silver level player, you can play Gold – but no playing down. Soccer is the only sport I have ever seen that allows players to play down. If we had conformity in classifications, we would have much better competition!
              There are ways to help select appropriate tournaments for teams. The good coaches/managers get it right all the time, the mediocre get lucky most of the time, and the truly incompetent get it wrong all the time.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                There are ways to help select appropriate tournaments for teams. The good coaches/managers get it right all the time, the mediocre get lucky most of the time, and the truly incompetent get it wrong all the time.
                You are right, for the most part. Having been a team manager for over 5 years, I agree.... with both arguments.
                It is a pain and it would be a lot better with consistent identification of players and teams.

                But at the same time, it is not impossible to figure out, even in the current convoluted structure.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                  Even wonder how your team gets stuck playing an opponent that should be in a rec program? How about sending your kids out to play and finding out that your 2nd level team is taking the pitch against the State Cup Champions? Ask any team manager, they will tell you that registering for soccer tournaments is a royal pain, in large part because of the fact that there is no consistency in division level identification. It is easier if your team is playing at the highest level – or conversely at the bottom level. But figuring out where to register your team so that they are pushed but not pummeled is really hard. Not only do soccer organizations allow teams to self-identify, there is NOTHING that dictates the level of players on that team. You could easily have a player – or several players – from an ECNL team / ODP Regional team (this thread is NOT about whether ECNL/ODP/Thorns are better – so don’t go there) playing with a team that placed middle of the pack in spring league. Fair? Not even close. Add to that the fact that every tournament makes up its own names for levels of play. Just because you’re having a tournament doesn’t mean you have a Premier bracket. If the best teams that are coming are 2nd level teams – then your highest bracket should be Gold.



                  Teams should be classified according to standardized measures at the State / Regional / National level. A team should be identified as Premier, Gold, Silver, Bronze (or whatever names suit your fancy). The players on each team should also be categorized with a level. If you are rostered on a Premier team – you are a premier level player, and you cannot play in a Gold or Silver level bracket. Period. If you are a Silver level player, you can play Gold – but no playing down. Soccer is the only sport I have ever seen that allows players to play down. If we had conformity in classifications, we would have much better competition!
                  give me one example where a State Champion played in a Silver Bracket of a tournament.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                    give me one example where a State Champion played in a Silver Bracket of a tournament.
                    Missing the point of the post.
                    The point is that there is nothing preventing high level competitive teams and/or players from playing at a lower level.

                    I personally know of a premier level, state cup championship, FWRL / NWCL goalie playing for a 3rd level team in addition to the 1st team. Granted the 3rd team didn't have a goalie and she was just filling in to be nice and help, but ultimately not really fair to the 3rd level teams they were playing against.

                    As far as team levels go, it is much more likely that a better team is going to find themselves playing against lesser competition because the division level identification is not consistent across the board.


                    Give me one good reason that consistent classification of teams and players is a BAD idea.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                      Missing the point of the post.
                      The point is that there is nothing preventing high level competitive teams and/or players from playing at a lower level.

                      I personally know of a premier level, state cup championship, FWRL / NWCL goalie playing for a 3rd level team in addition to the 1st team. Granted the 3rd team didn't have a goalie and she was just filling in to be nice and help, but ultimately not really fair to the 3rd level teams they were playing against.

                      As far as team levels go, it is much more likely that a better team is going to find themselves playing against lesser competition because the division level identification is not consistent across the board.


                      Give me one good reason that consistent classification of teams and players is a BAD idea.
                      Lol....you're talking about a gk?

                      Did you know that the RCL allows gk's to play a year down?
                      There is nothing wrong with what you explained above.
                      Kids should play down more often, especially when they are struggling with confidence....but I'm sure your baseball/football mentality will not understand what I'm saying.
                      I have never heard of a team u12 or older where a top team played in a lower division. I have seen this problem at u10/11 and that's only because it's hard to tell the first year doing summer tourneys

                      And why would we need to develop a classification for something that never happens?
                      Secondly, your focus on results is the reason for most of the problems in youth sports.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                        Lol....you're talking about a gk?

                        Did you know that the RCL allows gk's to play a year down?
                        There is nothing wrong with what you explained above.
                        Kids should play down more often, especially when they are struggling with confidence....but I'm sure your baseball/football mentality will not understand what I'm saying.
                        I have never heard of a team u12 or older where a top team played in a lower division. I have seen this problem at u10/11 and that's only because it's hard to tell the first year doing summer tourneys

                        And why would we need to develop a classification for something that never happens?
                        Secondly, your focus on results is the reason for most of the problems in youth sports.
                        Wrong, not focused on the results at all.
                        That same 3rd team had other 1st team players who subbed for them as well - not just the goalie. (And for the record, I am the parent of one of the 1st team players who played down. I don't think it is right or fair to the other teams.)
                        You could be right about entire teams not playing out of class, but individual and/or groups of players do it all the time. You're blind if you haven't seen it.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                          Wrong, not focused on the results at all.
                          That same 3rd team had other 1st team players who subbed for them as well - not just the goalie. (And for the record, I am the parent of one of the 1st team players who played down. I don't think it is right or fair to the other teams.)
                          You could be right about entire teams not playing out of class, but individual and/or groups of players do it all the time. You're blind if you haven't seen it.
                          Who cares? If they are the correct age and gender, and properly registered per whatever rules apply, nothing else matters. Get over it.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                            Who cares? If they are the correct age and gender, and properly registered per whatever rules apply, nothing else matters. Get over it.
                            Says the dude who gets off watching his kid look good playing against lower level teams.
                            Father of the year award to you dude.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                              Says the dude who gets off watching his kid look good playing against lower level teams.
                              Father of the year award to you dude.
                              If your kid's team can't keep up, it not the fault of the other team.

                              Comment

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