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    "Town" MAPLE teams will drain the "club" teams

    The elite teams in every club, by age group, generally get the best coaching.

    The rest of the teams get decent coaching, but, those players/parents don't get the same return on investment as their elite counterparts.

    Town teams that are forming are offering, what could be argued, coaching that is similar in quality to the 2nd & 3rd teams of the clubs.

    Town teams are beginning to compete in MAPLE, and the cost per player is significantly less for the parents. They will continue to siphon a considerable portion of the talent pool from the club teams, which could be fairly troublesome for the clubs.

    Not only will the clubs lose some talented players, they will lose the revenue from the 2nd and 3rd team players whose parents realize they can get competitive soccer for their children, that will never be the "chosen few," for far less money. The elite teams live off the revenue generated by the lesser teams.

    What will the clubs do when their GP begins to drop?

    Is the migration of club teams to the NEP a way for them to insulate themselves from the town teams. I've seen my fair share of town teams competing side by side with, or even beating, club teams with excellent reputations. I've witnessed club parents that were very agitated when their kids lost to town teams.

    Things could get interesting in the coming years. I see the girls sides in the club world continuing to thrive in the future. It's the boys side that will come under attack from the town teams.

    #2
    Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
    The elite teams in every club, by age group, generally get the best coaching.

    The rest of the teams get decent coaching, but, those players/parents don't get the same return on investment as their elite counterparts.

    Town teams that are forming are offering, what could be argued, coaching that is similar in quality to the 2nd & 3rd teams of the clubs.

    Town teams are beginning to compete in MAPLE, and the cost per player is significantly less for the parents. They will continue to siphon a considerable portion of the talent pool from the club teams, which could be fairly troublesome for the clubs.

    Not only will the clubs lose some talented players, they will lose the revenue from the 2nd and 3rd team players whose parents realize they can get competitive soccer for their children, that will never be the "chosen few," for far less money. The elite teams live off the revenue generated by the lesser teams.

    What will the clubs do when their GP begins to drop?

    Is the migration of club teams to the NEP a way for them to insulate themselves from the town teams. I've seen my fair share of town teams competing side by side with, or even beating, club teams with excellent reputations. I've witnessed club parents that were very agitated when their kids lost to town teams.

    Things could get interesting in the coming years. I see the girls sides in the club world continuing to thrive in the future. It's the boys side that will come under attack from the town teams.
    According to this, it would not only hurt clubs but facilities that rent to those clubs.

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
      According to this, it would not only hurt clubs but facilities that rent to those clubs.
      That is a fair estimation.

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
        That is a fair estimation.
        Too much money to be lost. Big clubs will not let it happen.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
          Too much money to be lost. Big clubs will not let it happen.
          Really?? It is a nice statement to make, but you have to follow up with how??
          Either the 'big clubs' lower their fees and supplement travel costs...or travel less, or they start to infiltrate towns. The example of the latter is how MPS has infiltrated towns to run clinics, train the town coaches, coordinate tryouts, and 'consult'. Sachems has been a Winchester related club or at least has an agreement to have a large percentage of Winchester players on its teams.

          It is, however, difficult to compete with 300-400 dollars per year for you town travel team with very good coaching. The 2000-3000 dollars per year for the club with very good coaching is probably not better. The latter then incorporates more travel with the promise of higher competition and better training......or taking more money and time.

          In the final analysis, you have to ask 'what it is all for?'. If you child is not on the 'A' team or a division 1 team (some clubs may have two in division 1) then don't pay the huge price for the club unless you are really getting your moneys worth. This, however, is not well defined. Assuming that the town has very good coaching, you get two practices per week and a game on the weekend. You should get way more than this when you pay 4-7 x this amount for the club team.

          If you think you are training to play high level soccer, get a college scholarship, get national team identification, or play pro then you better make sure that you child is playing on a division 1 club team and is getting great coaching, and fantastic competition. If not, then it isn't worth the money because your child is not likely to play beyond high school.

          The argued difference has been the coaching and costs. For the former, we know that this is a crap shoot in the towns with varying bell-shaped curves. However, this could also be a crap-shoot for the clubs that don't demand its own high level of coaching.

          The more successful towns run successful tournaments or clinics, run coaching clinics, provide opportunity to get licenses, and provide solid opportunities for players to compete. For the money, why wouldn't you take the town-deal.

          Here is why parents go to clubs: Between the ages of 12 and 14 there is a big separation in team success between town and club with the latter surging ahead. From 8th/9th grade on the competition of club soccer is significantly better than town soccer. For those kids who are serious about playing college soccer the training and level of play is better in the club system.......however, this is true only for division 1 club. Below that, you have to ask if it is worth it.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
            The elite teams in every club, by age group, generally get the best coaching.

            The rest of the teams get decent coaching, but, those players/parents don't get the same return on investment as their elite counterparts.

            Town teams that are forming are offering, what could be argued, coaching that is similar in quality to the 2nd & 3rd teams of the clubs.

            Town teams are beginning to compete in MAPLE, and the cost per player is significantly less for the parents. They will continue to siphon a considerable portion of the talent pool from the club teams, which could be fairly troublesome for the clubs.

            Not only will the clubs lose some talented players, they will lose the revenue from the 2nd and 3rd team players whose parents realize they can get competitive soccer for their children, that will never be the "chosen few," for far less money. The elite teams live off the revenue generated by the lesser teams.

            What will the clubs do when their GP begins to drop?

            Is the migration of club teams to the NEP a way for them to insulate themselves from the town teams. I've seen my fair share of town teams competing side by side with, or even beating, club teams with excellent reputations. I've witnessed club parents that were very agitated when their kids lost to town teams.

            Things could get interesting in the coming years. I see the girls sides in the club world continuing to thrive in the future. It's the boys side that will come under attack from the town teams.
            Except for one thing, when you get some jerk coach who favors a specific kid (like their own) you can alway quite the team and go to another club. Can't do that with a town program you are pretty much stuck with what you get.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
              Except for one thing, when you get some jerk coach who favors a specific kid (like their own) you can alway quite the team and go to another club. Can't do that with a town program you are pretty much stuck with what you get.

              Correct. The Town programs have a variety of ways to pick their coaches. Some towns have reasonable criteria; Licenses; Prior Coaching and at what level; Prior playing experience and at what level......but then there are some less objective criteria like contribution to the Town program and town....or 'who's your daddy?'

              I have seen both the good and bad of town soccer. Fortunately, the bad was a long time ago, while the good is the more recent. In our case, our town seems to have improved their selection. Regardless, the quality, experience, and training of coaches in the club system is likely to be significantly higher and better.....as is, hopefully, the objectivity.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                Really?? It is a nice statement to make, but you have to follow up with how??
                Either the 'big clubs' lower their fees and supplement travel costs...or travel less, or they start to infiltrate towns. The example of the latter is how MPS has infiltrated towns to run clinics, train the town coaches, coordinate tryouts, and 'consult'. Sachems has been a Winchester related club or at least has an agreement to have a large percentage of Winchester players on its teams.

                It is, however, difficult to compete with 300-400 dollars per year for you town travel team with very good coaching. The 2000-3000 dollars per year for the club with very good coaching is probably not better. The latter then incorporates more travel with the promise of higher competition and better training......or taking more money and time.

                In the final analysis, you have to ask 'what it is all for?'. If you child is not on the 'A' team or a division 1 team (some clubs may have two in division 1) then don't pay the huge price for the club unless you are really getting your moneys worth. This, however, is not well defined. Assuming that the town has very good coaching, you get two practices per week and a game on the weekend. You should get way more than this when you pay 4-7 x this amount for the club team.

                If you think you are training to play high level soccer, get a college scholarship, get national team identification, or play pro then you better make sure that you child is playing on a division 1 club team and is getting great coaching, and fantastic competition. If not, then it isn't worth the money because your child is not likely to play beyond high school.

                The argued difference has been the coaching and costs. For the former, we know that this is a crap shoot in the towns with varying bell-shaped curves. However, this could also be a crap-shoot for the clubs that don't demand its own high level of coaching.

                The more successful towns run successful tournaments or clinics, run coaching clinics, provide opportunity to get licenses, and provide solid opportunities for players to compete. For the money, why wouldn't you take the town-deal.

                Here is why parents go to clubs: Between the ages of 12 and 14 there is a big separation in team success between town and club with the latter surging ahead. From 8th/9th grade on the competition of club soccer is significantly better than town soccer. For those kids who are serious about playing college soccer the training and level of play is better in the club system.......however, this is true only for division 1 club. Below that, you have to ask if it is worth it.


                The clubs should definitely investigate methods to reduce their costs. For example:
                Save 100-200K per year if they own their own fields (takes an initial investment)
                Run clinics and camps
                Coordinate/Partner with towns. Even consider offering up coaching for their 'elite teams'.
                Partner up with a professional club either in this country or abroad

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                  Except for one thing, when you get some jerk coach who favors a specific kid (like their own) you can alway quite the team and go to another club. Can't do that with a town program you are pretty much stuck with what you get.
                  Like the bolts

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                    Correct. The Town programs have a variety of ways to pick their coaches. Some towns have reasonable criteria; Licenses; Prior Coaching and at what level; Prior playing experience and at what level......but then there are some less objective criteria like contribution to the Town program and town....or 'who's your daddy?'

                    I have seen both the good and bad of town soccer. Fortunately, the bad was a long time ago, while the good is the more recent. In our case, our town seems to have improved their selection. Regardless, the quality, experience, and training of coaches in the club system is likely to be significantly higher and better.....as is, hopefully, the objectivity.
                    In your picture something is missing: a good number of the kids playing in town do not have the commitment/ passion for the game as other kids; however, because the philosophy is different, they all get to play the same amount of time, regardless the number of practice sessions each has attended, how much dedication they show for the sport, etc. etc.
                    A lot of kids ask their parent to sign up for club soccer because it is there where they can find a more challenging atmosphere and feel more inspired by good coaches (yes, there are regrettable exceptions), and just the same as in academics, students who are more challenged are more likely to improve faster and in the end, feel more accomplished.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally Posted by Unregistered
                      Except for one thing, when you get some jerk coach who favors a specific kid (like their own) you can alway quite the team and go to another club. Can't do that with a town program you are pretty much stuck with what you get.
                      Like the bolts

                      Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                      Like the bolts

                      ooooh. This sounds like an unhappy present or former Bolts parent. Do tell, which team and coach are you referring to....if you have the 'balls' to speak up, which I doubt. Take it for what it is worth, your child was not a favored player. Accept it or move to another club.

                      However, I think the poster before you was more referring to the limitations of the Town program where you have less choice or fewer options if you don't like the coach. For the club system, you can always find another club, which hopefully you did since you clearly were, at one time, unhappy with the Bolts.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Town "club" programs are not going to hurt the clubs in any significant way. A town team, even with professional training is never going to be competitive with a strong club's 2nd or even 3rd team. Talent pool within any age group within a tow cannot compete with the talent pool accross multiple towns. The current rage of towns doing this is lead by second tire or worse player parents trying to get the club experience for their kids who cannot make a preioer club team. The best players will still leave to join a Stars, Bolts, MPS, NEFC, etc club team because they want and need to play with comparable level talent that the town program cannot offer. The real service that these town "club" programs does is better train the core of the players who will play secondary roles on their high school teaams and provide them with the skills to be average or better than average high school players. The top kids on those high school teams will still be the club players and the best high school teams in the state will still be those with the highest number of club players. The Sachems program is the perfect example of this in reality. Kids are trained well as a group and Winchester is a consistently strong high school team, but the best players leave Sachems early and play for real clubs and Sachems as a club team will always be a MASC level or low MAPLE level team.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                          In your picture something is missing: a good number of the kids playing in town do not have the commitment/ passion for the game as other kids; however, because the philosophy is different, they all get to play the same amount of time, regardless the number of practice sessions each has attended, how much dedication they show for the sport, etc. etc.
                          A lot of kids ask their parent to sign up for club soccer because it is there where they can find a more challenging atmosphere and feel more inspired by good coaches (yes, there are regrettable exceptions), and just the same as in academics, students who are more challenged are more likely to improve faster and in the end, feel more accomplished.
                          Really good town programs are still the exception, not the rule. This may change in time, but it hasn't yet. Most town programs have decidedly mediocre coaches and limited talent thanks to the fact that families start giving up and opting out for club as early as U10. The exceptions to the rule places where a good club coach starts a town team as well. These star town teams are loaded with club players, and that's just the best of the best in town. In the lower tier teams, you are overwhelming more likely to get a good coach in club than in town.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                            Town "club" programs are not going to hurt the clubs in any significant way. A town team, even with professional training is never going to be competitive with a strong club's 2nd or even 3rd team. Talent pool within any age group within a tow cannot compete with the talent pool accross multiple towns. The current rage of towns doing this is lead by second tire or worse player parents trying to get the club experience for their kids who cannot make a preioer club team. The best players will still leave to join a Stars, Bolts, MPS, NEFC, etc club team because they want and need to play with comparable level talent that the town program cannot offer. The real service that these town "club" programs does is better train the core of the players who will play secondary roles on their high school teaams and provide them with the skills to be average or better than average high school players. The top kids on those high school teams will still be the club players and the best high school teams in the state will still be those with the highest number of club players. The Sachems program is the perfect example of this in reality. Kids are trained well as a group and Winchester is a consistently strong high school team, but the best players leave Sachems early and play for real clubs and Sachems as a club team will always be a MASC level or low MAPLE level team.

                            If all things were equal on all levels then I would agree with you. However, there is one major factor that you are omitting that has been discussed on several posts during this thread: Economics. The clubs are getting too expensive for what they deliver. The next question is what do they deliver?? For every 1000 players that go through Massachusetts clubs how many will play in division 1 schools? How many will play beyond high school? How many will get scholarships? Finally, how many will play pro? In the big picture, is it worth 2000 to 5000 dollars per year (fees, tournaments, travel) to play on a club team vs. the town team when your child is not going to make a career of soccer.

                            However, let me step back and qualify my question better. I, for several reasons, am a club-soccer fan. I like the competition and the more objective coaching (i.e. not a parent of a kid on the team). I also like the travel with friends. I can also afford it. My kids play on division 1 teams. IF, HOWEVER, MY KIDS DID NOT PLAY DIVISION 1 THEN I DON'T THINK IT WOULD BE WORTH THAT PRICE and I would prefer my kids finding something else that they can be better at.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                              Originally Posted by Unregistered
                              Except for one thing, when you get some jerk coach who favors a specific kid (like their own) you can alway quite the team and go to another club. Can't do that with a town program you are pretty much stuck with what you get.
                              Like the bolts




                              ooooh. This sounds like an unhappy present or former Bolts parent. Do tell, which team and coach are you referring to....if you have the 'balls' to speak up, which I doubt. Take it for what it is worth, your child was not a favored player. Accept it or move to another club.

                              However, I think the poster before you was more referring to the limitations of the Town program where you have less choice or fewer options if you don't like the coach. For the club system, you can always find another club, which hopefully you did since you clearly were, at one time, unhappy with the Bolts.
                              Not unhappy with Bolts, seems you know exactly what I ref. you also admit there are favored players, I love the Balls arguement I am shaking....

                              My point is that you are not immune at clubs from the BS the poster was speaking of, as a matter of fact I think the early sputtering of the Revs program was a result of similiar B.S. thus a change at the top....At least with town you are not paying big $$.

                              Comment

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