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    #46
    Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
    My DD has played in both the ECNL and the GDA and while there are pluses and minuses with both leagues, the level of play is consistently higher in the GDA. As has been said, it is a shame that Oregon can't form one elite team on age, but the forces of youth soccer seem to consider their interests above that of the girls.
    We should all follow whatever path you picked - what a selfless and humble perspective.

    Comment


      #47
      Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
      My DD has played in both the ECNL and the GDA and while there are pluses and minuses with both leagues, the level of play is consistently higher in the GDA. As has been said, it is a shame that Oregon can't form one elite team on age, but the forces of youth soccer seem to consider their interests above that of the girls.
      The GDA feels higher because you are getting run over by the opposition and because that is the excuse your coach uses. The reality is tht when the GDA and ECNL go head to head, ECNL comes out on top. The results are the proof.

      Comment


        #48
        Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
        GDA has been only around a year and a half.
        If you played ECNL prior then most of the teams that you played against in GDA would have been the same teams that you played against in ECNL the previous year. I don't think the teams got better just because they are now GDA. It is interesting that you think the level of play would be consistently higher because the pool was diluted with GDA over the previous ECNL pool The forces of youth soccer give players (and parents) different options. It is not their responsibility to form a single elite team for Oregon. The reason why there is not one elite team on age is because players (and parents) are choosing different options rather than just one. If there was one option that was much better than the rest then I am sure most players (and parents) would go for the best option. If there was only one option, I believe it would be worse than what we have now because those who run it would know that you have no other options.

        Briefly to clear up how you attempted to construct a narrative about the Nation's elite clubs (which Oregon has never been a part on the girls side). The Nation's elite clubs have always been elite whether they played in USYS, US Club or the DA.

        Rarely, if ever does an Oregon club or a singular Oregon club team belong in a National DA platform, the only gender that's demonstrated they can hang with the nation's elite (rarely) are the Boys and it's maybe 5-7 club teams over a 30 year stretch. Oregon Girls have not produced one team that was among the nation's elite, ever. (USYS modern day has become 3rd tier)

        The only reason our area has a National DA platform is due to the MLS & NWSL connection. Which on so many levels is disingenuous to our available talent pool.

        Today, it's difficult for any local metro club to consolidate/attract the top talent in our market place.

        Why?

        1. National DA is up and running at Timbers/Thorns
        2. Paid youth coaches are a plenty with very few 'winners' or 'special ones' to attract players. Just an ocean of generic guys trying to make a living wage.
        3. Logistics & drive time for parents/players to training is brutal if you live outside of 15 miles of your club's metro training destination. The Portland Metro had around 1.5 million people in 1990 today we are at 2.5 million. With basically the same highway/freeway infrastructure.
        4. Community mission based non-profit Soccer Clubs are a thing of the past. Instead we have a soccer club around nearly ever corner and each of them are now saddled with massive payrolls that require 60 to 70% of all income generated. They cannot afford to lose paying customers or they will die.

        It's a stagnant mess of average for now.


        Maybe someone has the cure? Doubtful.

        Comment


          #49
          Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
          Briefly to clear up how you attempted to construct a narrative about the Nation's elite clubs (which Oregon has never been a part on the girls side). The Nation's elite clubs have always been elite whether they played in USYS, US Club or the DA.

          Rarely, if ever does an Oregon club or a singular Oregon club team belong in a National DA platform, the only gender that's demonstrated they can hang with the nation's elite (rarely) are the Boys and it's maybe 5-7 club teams over a 30 year stretch. Oregon Girls have not produced one team that was among the nation's elite, ever. (USYS modern day has become 3rd tier)

          The only reason our area has a National DA platform is due to the MLS & NWSL connection. Which on so many levels is disingenuous to our available talent pool.

          Today, it's difficult for any local metro club to consolidate/attract the top talent in our market place.

          Why?

          1. National DA is up and running at Timbers/Thorns
          2. Paid youth coaches are a plenty with very few 'winners' or 'special ones' to attract players. Just an ocean of generic guys trying to make a living wage.
          3. Logistics & drive time for parents/players to training is brutal if you live outside of 15 miles of your club's metro training destination. The Portland Metro had around 1.5 million people in 1990 today we are at 2.5 million. With basically the same highway/freeway infrastructure.
          4. Community mission based non-profit Soccer Clubs are a thing of the past. Instead we have a soccer club around nearly ever corner and each of them are now saddled with massive payrolls that require 60 to 70% of all income generated. They cannot afford to lose paying customers or they will die.

          It's a stagnant mess of average for now.


          Maybe someone has the cure? Doubtful.
          Not trying to create any narrative. The last 4 or 5 years prior to GDA, the girl's side elite was dominated by ECNL (a subset of US Club). They did not cover 100% of the elite club, but at least 80%.

          The driving, logistics, etc... are all sacrifices that "elite" level players make all of the time around the country to play at the "best" clubs.

          The challenge with Oregon is that there is not a club that is significantly better than the other. Sure you have plenty of people who will go on here and lobby for FCP, CU, or Thorns as the best, but the reality is that they are more alike than different. If that is the case then why would a player (and family) make a sacrifice when they have an "easier" option that is relatively the same. Why would you drive to New Seasons in Gresham if you have one down the street. Now if all you had was a Winco close by, then you would make that drive to Gresham.

          The players and the parents are the ones making the choices. Have the best coaches, program, etc... and you will attract and consolidate the talent. Has any club in Oregon tried that strategy? From what I have seen, the main strategy from the DOCs in Oregon is to do the minimum possible to keep their jobs. The coaches in Oregon aren't paid very well so not sure how any can make a real career coaching.

          Comment


            #50
            Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
            Not trying to create any narrative. The last 4 or 5 years prior to GDA, the girl's side elite was dominated by ECNL (a subset of US Club). They did not cover 100% of the elite club, but at least 80%.

            The driving, logistics, etc... are all sacrifices that "elite" level players make all of the time around the country to play at the "best" clubs.

            The challenge with Oregon is that there is not a club that is significantly better than the other. Sure you have plenty of people who will go on here and lobby for FCP, CU, or Thorns as the best, but the reality is that they are more alike than different. If that is the case then why would a player (and family) make a sacrifice when they have an "easier" option that is relatively the same. Why would you drive to New Seasons in Gresham if you have one down the street. Now if all you had was a Winco close by, then you would make that drive to Gresham.

            The players and the parents are the ones making the choices. Have the best coaches, program, etc... and you will attract and consolidate the talent. Has any club in Oregon tried that strategy? From what I have seen, the main strategy from the DOCs in Oregon is to do the minimum possible to keep their jobs. The coaches in Oregon aren't paid very well so not sure how any can make a real career coaching.
            I'll push back on this: Especially at the youth level, how would we--as parents--spot a good coach, especially only on the basis of rumors/reputation and/or observing a practice or tryout? And are you going to find truly excellent coaches in youth soccer, especially in clubs? The main thing about coaching at the youth levels is a) finding someone who isn't a complete *****hole who will make your kid hate the sport, b) finding someone who isn't lazy and actually works with the kids, rather than yakking on his phone while the kids do drills unobserved, c) finding someone who understands kids and the psychology of children, rather than someone who thinks he's drilling the U23s at Arsenal, and d) finding someone who is reasonably well-versed on modern tactics and techniques, and isn't trying to win with bootball.

            If a coach claims great tactical acumen, I'm not sure that's a good thing--at youth soccer, you generally want coaches who are using tried and true methods to teach well-established technique and tactics and establish fitness, not touchline geniuses who are coming up with bizarre schemes to allow one band of 12-year-olds to beat the team down the road. And likewise, if a coach claims to be a Great And Inspiring Leader--I'd ask what his priority is: Development, or wins?

            Given that--what often results, then, are recruiting wars; as assuming a coach isn't a BAD coach, the difference between Club Coach A and Club Coach B aren't going to be that great. At which point--improving the training environment (and winning trophies, if that matters) depends more on recruiting. Having skilled teammates to train against matters a lot; if you're DD or DS is dominating practice scrimmages without breaking a sweat, he or she probably would benefit from being on a different team.

            Which is one reason the separation into a zillion different leagues (ECNL! GDA! OYSA! FWRL or whatever its called this year!) is a problem; it allows teams to hide from each other so meaningful compares are hard to make.

            Of course, if there is an established and enforced pyramid, even one with pro/rel, that may simply give established clubs an advantage (and not be "fair" to new entrants), although it will have the effect of consolidating talent somewhat.

            And of course, the other limiting factor is $$$. Not just the salary of the coach, but of the ability of the club to hire assistants, to have better equipment, etc. While the TA is miles behind other MLS academies, and has other issues--it doesn't have the issue of kids waiting their turn to do the drill. More assistants at practice means the players are engaged more often rather than waiting in a line, or running laps around the field, or scrimmaging without feedback. And more coaches also make player evaluation and feedback much easier--something many club coaches don't bother with at all, or only do from memory.

            Comment


              #51
              Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
              I'll push back on this: Especially at the youth level, how would we--as parents--spot a good coach, especially only on the basis of rumors/reputation and/or observing a practice or tryout? And are you going to find truly excellent coaches in youth soccer, especially in clubs? The main thing about coaching at the youth levels is a) finding someone who isn't a complete *****hole who will make your kid hate the sport, b) finding someone who isn't lazy and actually works with the kids, rather than yakking on his phone while the kids do drills unobserved, c) finding someone who understands kids and the psychology of children, rather than someone who thinks he's drilling the U23s at Arsenal, and d) finding someone who is reasonably well-versed on modern tactics and techniques, and isn't trying to win with bootball.

              If a coach claims great tactical acumen, I'm not sure that's a good thing--at youth soccer, you generally want coaches who are using tried and true methods to teach well-established technique and tactics and establish fitness, not touchline geniuses who are coming up with bizarre schemes to allow one band of 12-year-olds to beat the team down the road. And likewise, if a coach claims to be a Great And Inspiring Leader--I'd ask what his priority is: Development, or wins?

              Given that--what often results, then, are recruiting wars; as assuming a coach isn't a BAD coach, the difference between Club Coach A and Club Coach B aren't going to be that great. At which point--improving the training environment (and winning trophies, if that matters) depends more on recruiting. Having skilled teammates to train against matters a lot; if you're DD or DS is dominating practice scrimmages without breaking a sweat, he or she probably would benefit from being on a different team.

              Which is one reason the separation into a zillion different leagues (ECNL! GDA! OYSA! FWRL or whatever its called this year!) is a problem; it allows teams to hide from each other so meaningful compares are hard to make.

              Of course, if there is an established and enforced pyramid, even one with pro/rel, that may simply give established clubs an advantage (and not be "fair" to new entrants), although it will have the effect of consolidating talent somewhat.

              And of course, the other limiting factor is $$$. Not just the salary of the coach, but of the ability of the club to hire assistants, to have better equipment, etc. While the TA is miles behind other MLS academies, and has other issues--it doesn't have the issue of kids waiting their turn to do the drill. More assistants at practice means the players are engaged more often rather than waiting in a line, or running laps around the field, or scrimmaging without feedback. And more coaches also make player evaluation and feedback much easier--something many club coaches don't bother with at all, or only do from memory.
              It is actually not rocket science to determine best club (if there is one).

              It is just difficult in Oregon because there really is not one.

              You are right that it is somewhat about the dollars because that effects how you get and retain coaches. It is also about field accessibility because that effects the number and quality of your training session. Equipment is not that big of a deal. In most cases we are talking about soccer balls. Assistants are not a huge deal either because head coaches use them differently.

              Imagine if there was a club that actually did player evaluations on a somewhat regular basis. You can go to a club or a session and see how well organized the sessions are and if there is a level of consistency thru the different age groups. It does not take much to see if someone is doing things better. The bar is set pretty low in Oregon and no one really wants to raise it. It will be a game changer in our soccer landscape if someone does actually decide to want to put in the work to be much better than everyone else. When this happens it will be obvious and not be as complicated as you just described.

              Comment

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