Let's see how well like this new BC coach is

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All this discussion is great but BC 8-8-2

Old news. We are looking at 2020 now.

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OP. I'm not disagreeing with you "AND" argument, nor am I bashing ODP or ECNL, but it's not a half-truth. The point is that what you've called my half-truth is much closer to being 100% essential to player development, but in the pay-to-play marketing scheme, it is intentionally diminished relative to the kit and badges a player wears. Those are not nearly as essential as they are marketed to be. Quality of coaching, training curriculum and level of competition, etc. all matter, wasn't implying that they don't. They are important and complementary components to the player journey, but they (Girls DA, cross country travel, tournaments, etc.) are marketed quite differently, intentionally, and dishonestly. Our consumer culture mostly doesn't understand that, ever or not until the end of that journey, because in the middle of it all is the emotional impulse of status being fed and satisfied. And it's why US Soccer is teetering on needing yet another reset, plan, etc. That's the only point I was making.

it is in the Clubs interest to pretend that you can "buy" all those intrinsic attributes. Speed and agility, technical training. A fancier uniform and more and more travel to find "better" competition. parents who cant or wont "buy" these things are not in the club. Sold as somehow doing their kids a disservice. Its a vicious cycle that leads to the enrichment of a few and the focus continuing to be the same for all. The way certain Clubs market the collective with slogans like PDA Family or Stars Nation is to appeal to the tribal nature in all of us. Guilting parents into spending more and more so their kids can be part of the in crowd. Buying a friend group. Its BS. They realize that if enough parents wise up and say, im not travelling across the country to play in games becasue its not the best use of my kids soccer development time, the jig is up. They need to create that peer pressure to keep it going. Very little of this si driven by the Club making its sole focus improving kids at the game. MONEY drives it. i get it


Development starts at home for me and always will. The Clubs are a tool in that process to be used. They are not the owners of a players development. The player is.

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Fine, I'll agree with you that the clubs claim way too much credit for the college outcomes of their players. However, don't get fooled into making the next logical leap and conclude that club soccer is not critical to a player's development. Among the top clubs in this market, one could argue that a focused, talented player will find her way to a good college destination coming from any one of them. But good luck getting a sniff from a P5 school or any top 150RPI program if you're not coming from a top club program. Go ahead and name 1 or 2 kids over the last 10 years who might be the exceptions, but parents who have a talented kid with aspirations of playing in college should be much smarter than to hope that little Mia is that one in a million exception.

Agreed. A badge from a good club will get the coaches on the sideline to watch. many times several rows deep.

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Fine, I'll agree with you that the clubs claim way too much credit for the college outcomes of their players. However, don't get fooled into making the next logical leap and conclude that club soccer is not critical to a player's development. Among the top clubs in this market, one could argue that a focused, talented player will find her way to a good college destination coming from any one of them. But good luck getting a sniff from a P5 school or any top 150RPI program if you're not coming from a top club program. Go ahead and name 1 or 2 kids over the last 10 years who might be the exceptions, but parents who have a talented kid with aspirations of playing in college should be much smarter than to hope that little Mia is that one in a million exception.

Im not saying that at all. The system is self fulfilling. Colleges use the one stop shops that these leagues have set up. The real point is, of those P5, top 150 RPI teams that you mention, How many play intelligent, technical soccer with squads of talented kids that the "system" has developed?

UNC are the most successful team over the long haul and they dont. They simply grind you into the ground with wave after wave of players

FSU, the most successful of recent times get thier team "brains" from kids developed outside our system

What you are saying is that if you want to be in the system, then you should follow the proven pathway. I agree. What im saying is that pathway is not designed around player development being the #1 focus. As a result you still have a pretty old WNT with players well into their 30s confident they can retain their places.

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This is a half truth: "Genetics, intrinsic motivation and passion to play, and parental support is exponentially more responsible than ODP, ECNL or any club and its pathway for player development."

For the player that has "genetics, intrinsic motivation and passion to play, and parental support" AND access to ODP, ECNL, etc. they will come out of H.S. a much more competitive player than a player that has genetics, intrinsic motivation and passion to play, and parental support AND only access to a lower level league that culminates in State Cup.

I understand the temptation for bashing ODP, ECNL, etc. but one cannot debate that the level of play is much faster, more technical and involves very gifted athletes - up and down the roster on most teams.

You'll be bashed as a club coach or koolaid drinker for posting this, but you are correct.

I have a niece who was more athletic than my kids and loves soccer, but only played in a very low level club program (essentially a town team) that rarely traveled outside their county and never was pushed to play higher level competition. Just watching our kids playing in the backyard or playing at camps together from u-little to HS, my niece went from being the best of the group, to barely keeping up, to the weaklink within 3-4 years. They all played pretty much the same amount of soccer - but she was not pushed to develop greater skills, process the game faster, and deal with faster pace. Her level of club soccer only demanded that she stop a pass, regain control of the ball, look up to see if she was being challenged or a teammate was open, and then kick the ball in the right direction. 1-touch play for her was just kicking a rolling ball toward the other team's goal. She was done with soccer by senior year of HS.

My brother watched her development, then saw the development of my kids and how quickly they passed her by, and didn't connect the dots until it was way too late to do much about it.

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You'll be bashed as a club coach or koolaid drinker for posting this, but you are correct.

I have a niece who was more athletic than my kids and loves soccer, but only played in a very low level club program (essentially a town team) that rarely traveled outside their county and never was pushed to play higher level competition. Just watching our kids playing in the backyard or playing at camps together from u-little to HS, my niece went from being the best of the group, to barely keeping up, to the weaklink within 3-4 years. They all played pretty much the same amount of soccer - but she was not pushed to develop greater skills, process the game faster, and deal with faster pace. Her level of club soccer only demanded that she stop a pass, regain control of the ball, look up to see if she was being challenged or a teammate was open, and then kick the ball in the right direction. 1-touch play for her was just kicking a rolling ball toward the other team's goal. She was done with soccer by senior year of HS.

My brother watched her development, then saw the development of my kids and how quickly they passed her by, and didn't connect the dots until it was way too late to do much about it.

so you believe that pushing is the answer? That you can make a kid develop?

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it is in the Clubs interest to pretend that you can "buy" all those intrinsic attributes. Speed and agility, technical training. A fancier uniform and more and more travel to find "better" competition. parents who cant or wont "buy" these things are not in the club. Sold as somehow doing their kids a disservice. Its a vicious cycle that leads to the enrichment of a few and the focus continuing to be the same for all. The way certain Clubs market the collective with slogans like PDA Family or Stars Nation is to appeal to the tribal nature in all of us. Guilting parents into spending more and more so their kids can be part of the in crowd. Buying a friend group. Its BS. They realize that if enough parents wise up and say, im not travelling across the country to play in games becasue its not the best use of my kids soccer development time, the jig is up. They need to create that peer pressure to keep it going. Very little of this si driven by the Club making its sole focus improving kids at the game. MONEY drives it. i get it


Development starts at home for me and always will. The Clubs are a tool in that process to be used. They are not the owners of a players development. The player is.

I love the last 4 lines. The rest of the post is right on, too.

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Im not saying that at all. The system is self fulfilling. Colleges use the one stop shops that these leagues have set up. The real point is, of those P5, top 150 RPI teams that you mention, How many play intelligent, technical soccer with squads of talented kids that the "system" has developed?

UNC are the most successful team over the long haul and they dont. They simply grind you into the ground with wave after wave of players

FSU, the most successful of recent times get thier team "brains" from kids developed outside our system

What you are saying is that if you want to be in the system, then you should follow the proven pathway. I agree. What im saying is that pathway is not designed around player development being the #1 focus. As a result you still have a pretty old WNT with players well into their 30s confident they can retain their places.

UNC does grind you, but those players at least have high soccer iq and skill.

Would you agree that there are some coaches that coach similarly but lack the depth in talent as far as skill AND iq. That's club coaching not college coaching. What befuddling is the inability for these coaches to see it in youth play? Certain bad habits don't just develop. It questions the iq of some of the coaches and/or their assistants during the recruitment process.

Also, I disagree with your breakdown. UNC isn't just US kids and neither is FSU (although the US kids are doing a lot of contribution now like Jalen Howell and Jenna N) so maybe Coach K's thought process is changing.

But UVA ARE ONLY kids that were developed within the US system? So this is an example of a full team of kids developed within the US youth soccer system and are playing intelligent, technical soccer with squads of talented kids that the "system" has developed.

Stanford is another example, although some internationals. They play the same style as UVA; the US soccer style - build from the back; possession and some direct.

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so you believe that pushing is the answer? That you can make a kid develop?

I am not the OP, but yes, you can help a kid develop by getting him/her to the correct places.

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However, don't get fooled into making the next logical leap and conclude that club soccer is not critical to a player's development.

Among the top clubs in this market, one could argue that a focused, talented player will find her way to a good college destination coming from any one of them. But good luck getting a sniff from a P5 school or any top 150RPI program if you're not coming from a top club program.

Go ahead and name 1 or 2 kids over the last 10 years who might be the exceptions, but parents who have a talented kid with aspirations of playing in college should be much smarter than to hope that little Mia is that one in a million exception.

It's not the next logical leap and it's nothing I've seen anyone argue.

You're certainly highlighting that the marketing plan of club soccer has succeeded.

I applaud you for the phrasing of "aspirations of playing in college" because I've seen A LOT of "smart" parents invest in getting that sniff, and most of the time those aspirations even manage to earn the opportunity, and after the club posts on Instagram about their pathway, merit wins out and the player has to earn the minutes and most don't.

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it is in the Clubs interest to pretend that you can "buy" all those intrinsic attributes. Speed and agility, technical training. A fancier uniform and more and more travel to find "better" competition. parents who cant or wont "buy" these things are not in the club. Sold as somehow doing their kids a disservice. Its a vicious cycle that leads to the enrichment of a few and the focus continuing to be the same for all. The way certain Clubs market the collective with slogans like PDA Family or Stars Nation is to appeal to the tribal nature in all of us. Guilting parents into spending more and more so their kids can be part of the in crowd. Buying a friend group. Its BS. They realize that if enough parents wise up and say, im not travelling across the country to play in games becasue its not the best use of my kids soccer development time, the jig is up. They need to create that peer pressure to keep it going. Very little of this si driven by the Club making its sole focus improving kids at the game. MONEY drives it. i get it


Development starts at home for me and always will. The Clubs are a tool in that process to be used. They are not the owners of a players development. The player is.

Spot on. FOMO.

[Unregistered]

UNC does grind you, but those players at least have high soccer iq and skill.

Would you agree that there are some coaches that coach similarly but lack the depth in talent as far as skill AND iq. That's club coaching not college coaching. What befuddling is the inability for these coaches to see it in youth play? Certain bad habits don't just develop. It questions the iq of some of the coaches and/or their assistants during the recruitment process.

Also, I disagree with your breakdown. UNC isn't just US kids and neither is FSU (although the US kids are doing a lot of contribution now like Jalen Howell and Jenna N) so maybe Coach K's thought process is changing.

But UVA ARE ONLY kids that were developed within the US system? So this is an example of a full team of kids developed within the US youth soccer system and are playing intelligent, technical soccer with squads of talented kids that the "system" has developed.

Stanford is another example, although some internationals. They play the same style as UVA; the US soccer style - build from the back; possession and some direct.

ok. So one team and parts of a few more. Is that an adequate return for all the $$ spent?

Note i did not say UNC or FSU was only US kids. In fact the opposite. in FSU case. I said their brains are non US based and they are. have been for some time. The skill sets on the personnel at UNC is consistent with how they play. They started to add European players recently after WVU showed them that one Buchanan could derail their direct play.

College soccer will have kids from all over, but my point stands.

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so you believe that pushing is the answer? That you can make a kid develop?

No, I think pushing is absolutely wrong for the vast majority of kids. I tried not to push my kids, because I wanted to make damn certain that the soccer journey was their initiative and not me living out some parental fantasy.

I don't think that you can really MAKE a kid develop - at least over a long enough period of time to make a difference. I think that you can PREVENT a kid from developing, which is what I believed happened to my niece. In the case of my niece, I think my brother and his wife were way too dismissive of the value of good coaching and challenging competition. They opted for a local team with a coach that they knew from town who was a good guy and was coaching his own kid and whoever else wanted to play. My sister in law in particular was unwilling to spend bigger $'s and more weekend time on soccer. I'm certain that she thought that our family was nuts spending the $ and time we did on club soccer.
They had no idea how little she was developing, because all they generally saw were the kids on her team and the level of competition they played at every week.

All of a sudden it was too late.

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Development starts at home for me and always will. The Clubs are a tool in that process to be used. They are not the owners of a players development. The player is.

Our soccer culture and pay-to-play, how it operates and how it's marketed to consumers and, as a result, how players develop and teams play, is completely at odds with these statements.

Check back in 5 years to see how our national teams are doing and what the participation rate trends in the sport at younger ages look like.

The pipeline from Lancaster to Chestnut Hill will be thriving though.

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ok. So one team and parts of a few more. Is that an adequate return for all the $$ spent?

Note i did not say UNC or FSU was only US kids. In fact the opposite. in FSU case. I said their brains are non US based and they are. have been for some time. The skill sets on the personnel at UNC is consistent with how they play. They started to add European players recently after WVU showed them that one Buchanan could derail their direct play.

College soccer will have kids from all over, but my point stands.

You did say FSU wasn't brains that are US based that is why I pointed out that some of their top players now, are US brains.