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    #16
    Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
    Even at clubs like Stars or NEFC, they tend to focus on the top 2 or 3 players per team and bad habits are often not checked early or with enough vigor. for bottom half players they simply dont care and wont take the time to help them and for top players, if results are fairly positive in terms of wins and losses, then it also isnt really worth it. Most clubs are simply happy winning games in whatever realm they belong to and never try to get over the hump and on to the next level. At times, kids need to be instructed, corrected, pulled from a game for an explanation of repeated mistakes and then pulled from a half until they comply ..... I have never seen this happen on any of my kids teams (3 of them at bigger and better clubs) .... not to the weaker kids and certainly not to the "stars" who get the most touches and still make the most mistakes (the same ones all of the time). It is disheartening to see the same mistakes from the same kids week after week and they continue to go uncorrected.
    dont agree with this take. its more common that the top 2 or 3 players are the ones who actually care and put in the level of effort required. parents of kids who dont find it easier to think its "special attention"

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      #17
      Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
      dont agree with this take. its more common that the top 2 or 3 players are the ones who actually care and put in the level of effort required. parents of kids who dont find it easier to think its "special attention"
      I agree with this, but it also develops more clearly over time.

      Every kid I've come across that is really good, is also really dedicated. Are they dedicated because they are good? Or, are they good because they are dedicated?

      Some do develop into being better players just by sure will. I know of a kid who was a "B" teamer for 5+ years. But, she never missed anything, went to every single invite for anything extra, and worked hard. Eventually, she came onto our team and kudos to her, she earned and has stuck. I doubt she'll ever be a 1%-er, but if I were to name the top 5 players on the team over the last few years, she makes that cut every time.

      Conversely, we have a whole list of people who think they should be on the top team, or getting top minutes, who seem to have a lot of mysterious illnesses and other activities that pull them away.

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        #18
        Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
        You have to approach it knowing that the onus is on your kid to maximize whatever the Club offers. Be aggressive in making sure you get vfm.
        I like this comment and will add include "fun" (in additions to training, life lessons, leadership, etc.) as part of VFM

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          #19
          Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
          I like this comment and will add include "fun" (in additions to training, life lessons, leadership, etc.) as part of VFM
          I hate this sort of post. Kids need to derive their "fun" from training and playing a game they love not because the games and training sessions are turned to focus on giving them "fun". It's a big difference and one of the major problems with this generation of kid.

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            #20
            Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
            Not true..... I have had two kids go thru different clubs. One D is U15 with Stars and the other is U14 NEFC Boys. Both have who I consider to be good coaches thru the years. Both have been with the programs since U10. I have seen countless kids go thru there weekly trainings and still have no touch, low Soccer iq, no pace, no drive etc etc. Go to any game on a Sunday you will see lots of low level play from players that have been with a club for YEARS. Some players will NEVER become a quality player regardless of the training. Club soccer is not the answer for the majority of players.... But parents like me allow there kid to play club (and cost me an assload of money) and enable this club world to continue.
            But if the nucleus of the team (50% of the team?) has touch, iq, and the coaching is there then club is a whole lot better than travel or high school kickball in my experience. I think seeing the way the more skilled/better iq players operate also tends to raise the game of the other kids on the team over time.

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              #21
              Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
              And this is different from any other youth sport? Seems like the level of expectation is way too high, but then again I am a realist.
              Given the $ outlay, expecting kids to learn to have improved touch, know when to get wide, play more cohesively, look for the pass or execute a 1-2 doesn't seem like a high expectation for a club program you're shuttling them to 3-5 times a week.

              Comment


                #22
                Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                But if the nucleus of the team (50% of the team?) has touch, iq, and the coaching is there then club is a whole lot better than travel or high school kickball in my experience. I think seeing the way the more skilled/better iq players operate also tends to raise the game of the other kids on the team over time.
                Yes, totally agree with this. And it doesn't have to be 50% of the team. There are two center mid-field players on my kid's team that when they are both on the field, the team settles down and passes beautifully, playing real soccer and making good opportunities for scoring. Take them out, and the team plays a completely different style of over the top kick ball, and the whole game turns into a ping pong match.

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                  #23
                  50% is really stretching it. Maybe 10-20%. There is just Not that much talent around. The bigger point for me is that you just can’t make every kid into a strong player. If you go to say a perceived top team practice and then to a lower level team practice you will see a much different environment. Club coaching stops at the lower level teams. They dismiss the majority of kids all together as they have been labeled as talentless. This is a strong generalization as there are coaches out there who continue to work with weak players, but this has been what I have seen with the bigger clubs over the years. A club like stars/NEfc would much rather recruit a stud from the outside than develop there large pool of “talentless players”. I think it is a strong indictment of the level of coaching with the lower club teams.

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                    #24
                    Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                    Yes, totally agree with this. And it doesn't have to be 50% of the team. There are two center mid-field players on my kid's team that when they are both on the field, the team settles down and passes beautifully, playing real soccer and making good opportunities for scoring. Take them out, and the team plays a completely different style of over the top kick ball, and the whole game turns into a ping pong match.
                    How many kids from the team are playing club soccer? Only two? If there are more than two club kids would t you agree that the issue is club Soccer? Isn’t that a pretty obvious statement that if you have two skilled mid field players that the level of play increases? Playing real soccer? So you are saying that nobody should play the game unless it is beautiful? What club team does your kid play on? I’d love to see the beautiful passing. I am free Sunday. Send me the address.

                    Comment


                      #25
                      Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                      I was recently reflecting on soccer a bit - the expense of club soccer - my kids development - and looking at what happens in high school. I've got multiple kids in programs and one about to graduate - here are my observations/conclusions.

                      - The expectations I had when I was a younger were off base - spent way too much time thinking my kid was the next big thing.

                      - Fact is many kids including kids on his team that went to Revs - eventually ended up being role players on high school team or stopped playing.

                      - High School Soccer is a joke - quality is simply not there - kick run and run people over. It isn't the Holy Grail - and few people have an interest beyond parents and people who know the kids.

                      What does this mean? Well, above all, make sure your kid is HAVING fun and that he or she ENJOYS the club they belong to!!! If they're happy, you're in a good place! If you think they would be happier somewhere else - get your kid there no matter what soccer boards say or other parents.

                      So make sure you get the most for your money and that your kid has fun!

                      The best thing to come from club soccer is confidence and friendships - some they get from being on teams but really most comes from time spent with you on Sat/Sundays at the games - learning to win/lose and all else that comes with it.

                      That's my take!
                      100% spot on. You’ve summed up club soccer in one post. Thanks

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                        50% is really stretching it. Maybe 10-20%. There is just Not that much talent around. The bigger point for me is that you just can’t make every kid into a strong player. If you go to say a perceived top team practice and then to a lower level team practice you will see a much different environment. Club coaching stops at the lower level teams. They dismiss the majority of kids all together as they have been labeled as talentless. This is a strong generalization as there are coaches out there who continue to work with weak players, but this has been what I have seen with the bigger clubs over the years. A club like stars/NEfc would much rather recruit a stud from the outside than develop there large pool of “talentless players”. I think it is a strong indictment of the level of coaching with the lower club teams.
                        I made up the 50% but it has to be more than 2-3 players or its beautiful when those 2-3 players connect and crap after the ball leaves the foot of the 2-3. Can't make a kid a strong player but you can make a kid a stronger player.

                        Comment


                          #27
                          Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                          I made up the 50% but it has to be more than 2-3 players or its beautiful when those 2-3 players connect and crap after the ball leaves the foot of the 2-3. Can't make a kid a strong player but you can make a kid a stronger player.
                          Stronger does not equal more talented.

                          Comment


                            #28
                            Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                            dont agree with this take. its more common that the top 2 or 3 players are the ones who actually care and put in the level of effort required. parents of kids who dont find it easier to think its "special attention"
                            So if I’m understanding you correctly, it’s only the top two or three players that work hard to progress? So if a club has 6 teams in an age group only 2 or 3 players are actually working hard? Out of curiosity what age are your kids in club soccer? My perspective has changed as the years go on. I have one kid who’s got enough talent to make the top team and another (older player) that does not. My older players works equally as hard as my younger (actually much harder), but the reality is that the club will label players within there own system as a mid level player and they stay where they are.

                            Comment


                              #29
                              Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                              So if I’m understanding you correctly, it’s only the top two or three players that work hard to progress? So if a club has 6 teams in an age group only 2 or 3 players are actually working hard? Out of curiosity what age are your kids in club soccer? My perspective has changed as the years go on. I have one kid who’s got enough talent to make the top team and another (older player) that does not. My older players works equally as hard as my younger (actually much harder), but the reality is that the club will label players within there own system as a mid level player and they stay where they are.
                              Not what im saying. The 2/3 was taken from the op. At some clubs its more, some less. I HATE the way everything is defined on a relative basis. Im not having a go at you but you said...

                              I have one kid who’s got enough talent to make the top team

                              why is that relevant if the top team is not very good? Or maybe if they are excellent its no failing of your other kid not to be on one.

                              its how Clubs operate and it follows on from my point. How hard you work and how driven you are to succeed is on the player. Clubs tend to appear to be favoring kids that have talent and work hard because they tend to appear to get most of the opportunities. I believe thats because most earn them.

                              Players need to own their own development and take responsibility for the results. Practice in a focused manner. Watch games on TV. Do things on your own to get better and use the Clubs facilities to your own advantage.

                              if you are not helping yourself then you can blame anyone else. Not you, but too many families expect the Clubs to hand them success on a silver platter. It carries on as well .

                              Parents say things like, my kid plays D1 - she may be getting nothing to sit on the bench at a team with a 300RPI or starting for Stanford. Those things are clearly not the same.

                              Comment


                                #30
                                Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                                But if the nucleus of the team (50% of the team?) has touch, iq, and the coaching is there then club is a whole lot better than travel or high school kickball in my experience. I think seeing the way the more skilled/better iq players operate also tends to raise the game of the other kids on the team over time.
                                In my experience, there is little, if any, difference at U14 between a mid tier NEP team, at a good club, and a good Town Travel D1 team. In theory the best players would all migrate to NEP, but in reality 1/3rd of the Town Travel players also play club. That said I do see a lack of soccer iq in high school soccer with some players on the team, that results into a "boot it" mentality. So they don't turn it over on the defensive side of the field.

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