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Cornell Men’s Head coach John Smith reneged on a verbal commit

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    #31
    Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
    Did you even read the article? Rea the last sentence - the kid admitted he did it to himself by not pushing hard enough. That's why the offer was pulled. Good god people. READ.

    "Almost a year ago, Mark Keiffer (Bedford, N.H.) verbally committed to Cornell.

    A junior in high school, he found himself in a fortuitous situation. Then gearing up for his club season with GPS New Hampshire, it was comforting to know an Ivy League student-athlete experience awaited.

    But this past summer, the Big Red's coaches said it was no longer the right fit. Keiffer's spot in their Class of 2019 was off the table.

    "I allowed myself to plateau and not push myself to that next level," Keiffer said. "Now it's been extra motivation to prove them wrong."
    Please. How many variables are in this story. And how and why did it even get to this journal? The team found someone they think is better for their needs and backed out of their offer. Do you really think the kid got worse in his spring club season AND Cornell re-scouted him and said 'thanks but no thanks?'

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      #32
      Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
      Please. How many variables are in this story. And how and why did it even get to this journal? The team found someone they think is better for their needs and backed out of their offer. Do you really think the kid got worse in his spring club season AND Cornell re-scouted him and said 'thanks but no thanks?'
      You just can't trust these coaches. Harvard Univ also has reputation on taking back offers.

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        #33
        Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
        Please. How many variables are in this story. And how and why did it even get to this journal? The team found someone they think is better for their needs and backed out of their offer. Do you really think the kid got worse in his spring club season AND Cornell re-scouted him and said 'thanks but no thanks?'
        completely agree. Actually watched him in a Northwood game. The kids a decent player. Very smart on and off the ball. Cornell coaches are douches.

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          #34
          It's all verbal until it's on a signed contract and that only applies if you're getting athletic money. Ivies and D3s can reneg at any time also. Coaches don't often reneg because then they develop a reputation for it which hurts recruiting. But if a player can't get admitted, slacks off, maybe gets into trouble in school or even with the police, an offer can be yanked. Coaches also just change their minds and look for excuses. Douchey for sure but it happens. Players can change their minds also.

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            #35
            Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
            It's all verbal until it's on a signed contract and that only applies if you're getting athletic money. Ivies and D3s can reneg at any time also. Coaches don't often reneg because then they develop a reputation for it which hurts recruiting. But if a player can't get admitted, slacks off, maybe gets into trouble in school or even with the police, an offer can be yanked. Coaches also just change their minds and look for excuses. Douchey for sure but it happens. Players can change their minds also.
            Could be that the coach did the harder proper thing by being upfront about not supporting the player. I wouldn't be shocked if some coaches decided to not support a recruit with the admissions office, let the player apply early, and get rejected. Then the coach can say the application wasn't strong enough or the admissions office was the bad guy. If the player gets in, great, it's a "free" recruit that maybe works out, or maybe gets cut. Probably even easier to do with an Ivy where there is not athletic scholarship at play.

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              #36
              Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
              Could be that the coach did the harder proper thing by being upfront about not supporting the player. I wouldn't be shocked if some coaches decided to not support a recruit with the admissions office, let the player apply early, and get rejected. Then the coach can say the application wasn't strong enough or the admissions office was the bad guy. If the player gets in, great, it's a "free" recruit that maybe works out, or maybe gets cut. Probably even easier to do with an Ivy where there is not athletic scholarship at play.
              Ivies give pre reads on admissions and coaches to give commits without that.

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                #37
                Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                great, who pays for that PG year?

                ALL commitments are verbal until an NLI is signed, most in November of your senior year. NLIS only apply if you're getting athletic money and Ivies don't give athletic money. If you're getting only financial aid, merit$ or nothing at all there is no binding contract 9other than the school itself agreeing to give you x). Obviously with D3s there's no binding contract either. MOST coaches will stick with their commitments. If they develop a reputation for withdrawing then it becomes harder for them to attract talent. But, they can and do change their minds. Some players can't get admitted (a particular issue with top academic schools). Some players don't develop/mature the way a coach had hoped, often because the player stops putting an effort in. Sometimes the coach learns something negative about the player they don't like (social media has gotten many a player in trouble).

                Players can and do change their minds too, leaving coaches scrambling to fill spots. By and large the honor system works but it is good to know what can happen.
                If you get one of the few and covered PG spots there is little if anything to pay.

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                  #38
                  Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                  It's all verbal until it's on a signed contract and that only applies if you're getting athletic money. Ivies and D3s can reneg at any time also. Coaches don't often reneg because then they develop a reputation for it which hurts recruiting. But if a player can't get admitted, slacks off, maybe gets into trouble in school or even with the police, an offer can be yanked. Coaches also just change their minds and look for excuses. Douchey for sure but it happens. Players can change their minds also.
                  Why would he "reneg" at an Ivy? He had nothing to offer except for a jersey and a locker.

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                    #39
                    Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                    It's all verbal until it's on a signed contract and that only applies if you're getting athletic money. Ivies and D3s can reneg at any time also. Coaches don't often reneg because then they develop a reputation for it which hurts recruiting. But if a player can't get admitted, slacks off, maybe gets into trouble in school or even with the police, an offer can be yanked. Coaches also just change their minds and look for excuses. Douchey for sure but it happens. Players can change their minds also.
                    And let that be a lesson to all. Verbals mean absolutely nothing to either party. As a player if school A offered my kid a 50% verbal and a year later school B offered them 75% and the schools were similar academically I would encourage my kid to take the better offer. This is a coach's full-time job and they do this stuff year after yearto countless kids (most of which we never hear about). They have made it a cut throat world and NCAA allows it so parents should not be trapped by the newness of the situation and how, intuitively, it feels like breach if a contract ..... Players and parents should understand up front that a verbal is not an enforceable contract by anyone and should not be deterred by it (a verbal is such a 1-way deal in the college coach's favor). Until you sign a document with specific details then people all doors are open ..... Please do not forget that.

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                      #40
                      Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                      And let that be a lesson to all. Verbals mean absolutely nothing to either party. As a player if school A offered my kid a 50% verbal and a year later school B offered them 75% and the schools were similar academically I would encourage my kid to take the better offer. This is a coach's full-time job and they do this stuff year after yearto countless kids (most of which we never hear about). They have made it a cut throat world and NCAA allows it so parents should not be trapped by the newness of the situation and how, intuitively, it feels like breach if a contract ..... Players and parents should understand up front that a verbal is not an enforceable contract by anyone and should not be deterred by it (a verbal is such a 1-way deal in the college coach's favor). Until you sign a document with specific details then people all doors are open ..... Please do not forget that.
                      It's just a huge business at every level.

                      https://www.forbes.com/sites/jerryba...ateral-damage/

                      Comment


                        #41
                        Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                        And let that be a lesson to all. Verbals mean absolutely nothing to either party. As a player if school A offered my kid a 50% verbal and a year later school B offered them 75% and the schools were similar academically I would encourage my kid to take the better offer. This is a coach's full-time job and they do this stuff year after yearto countless kids (most of which we never hear about). They have made it a cut throat world and NCAA allows it so parents should not be trapped by the newness of the situation and how, intuitively, it feels like breach if a contract ..... Players and parents should understand up front that a verbal is not an enforceable contract by anyone and should not be deterred by it (a verbal is such a 1-way deal in the college coach's favor). Until you sign a document with specific details then people all doors are open ..... Please do not forget that.
                        What are you talking about? There's no thing as a 50% or 75% verbal. You either get offered a verbal commitment or you don't. With the Ivys you will get a preread from admissions before the verbal is offered. So unless the player screws up badly later on, most coaches hold to their verbals. The coaches that don't develop reputations and soon players start avoiding them.

                        Comment


                          #42
                          Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                          What are you talking about? There's no thing as a 50% or 75% verbal. You either get offered a verbal commitment or you don't. With the Ivys you will get a preread from admissions before the verbal is offered. So unless the player screws up badly later on, most coaches hold to their verbals. The coaches that don't develop reputations and soon players start avoiding them.
                          BS, you know where you are on the scale, verbally. If you didn't you are messed up and a fool. If that was policy every coach would offer verbals to a million different kids, wait until the NLI signing day and then toss out 10% letters. Don't be naive.

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                            #43
                            Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                            BS, you know where you are on the scale, verbally. If you didn't you are messed up and a fool. If that was policy every coach would offer verbals to a million different kids, wait until the NLI signing day and then toss out 10% letters. Don't be naive.
                            Forgot to add, the specifics of how the 75% are paid out, get send later in the details after you submit all paperwork including financials.

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                              #44
                              Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                              BS, you know where you are on the scale, verbally. If you didn't you are messed up and a fool. If that was policy every coach would offer verbals to a million different kids, wait until the NLI signing day and then toss out 10% letters. Don't be naive.
                              Not BS. Both my kids got verbals there was no percentage applied to it. They accepted and one is playing the other is joining in the fall. One is an Ivy school, the other is a D1 school - no money from the Ivy as expected (except some need based financial aid). With the other the verbal was given with a "guesstimate" on what the athletic and merit would be. He ended up getting about 90% of that which was fine with us.

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                                #45
                                Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                                What are you talking about? There's no thing as a 50% or 75% verbal. You either get offered a verbal commitment or you don't. With the Ivys you will get a preread from admissions before the verbal is offered. So unless the player screws up badly later on, most coaches hold to their verbals. The coaches that don't develop reputations and soon players start avoiding them.
                                Where do I find out about coaches who renege on verbal commits or have bad reputations?

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