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Why the USMNT lost Jonathan Gonzales

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    Why the USMNT lost Jonathan Gonzales

    Unfortunately, socceramerica has gone to a subscription model, but you can still read and article or two each day for free.

    And this one is important: https://www.socceramerica.com/public...athan-gon.html

    The important point, I think, is not that we lost Jonathan Gonzales to el Tri because of a phone call.

    It's because various parts of US Soccer tend to ignore the Latino community in various ways.

    * Pay-to-play clubs are not affordable by many poor and working-class Latino players. In some places, predominantly-upper-class clubs may even be indifferent or hostile to Latino players, especially lower-income ones. (Often times the problem is class rather than race, but racism certainly exists).
    * Many clubs like to emphasize, for lack of a better term, an "English" style of play (or bootball and other corruptions thereof), that focuses on athletic ability over technical ability.
    * US Soccer seems to have no clue about reaching the Latino community.
    * And quite a few MLS clubs have no clue either. The Timbers, despite having a lackluster academy program, are better than quite a few MLS clubs at this actually. But Gonzales, a kid who was a fixture with US youth teams for quite a few years and who won the Sueño, didn't get a sniff from MLS and ended up in Liga MX. And like a hot girlfriend who moves away from college--how soon before her heart starts to wander?

    #2
    It is Gonzalez, not Gonzales.

    Good article though.

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
      Unfortunately, socceramerica has gone to a subscription model, but you can still read and article or two each day for free.

      And this one is important: https://www.socceramerica.com/public...athan-gon.html

      The important point, I think, is not that we lost Jonathan Gonzales to el Tri because of a phone call.

      It's because various parts of US Soccer tend to ignore the Latino community in various ways.

      * Pay-to-play clubs are not affordable by many poor and working-class Latino players. In some places, predominantly-upper-class clubs may even be indifferent or hostile to Latino players, especially lower-income ones. (Often times the problem is class rather than race, but racism certainly exists).
      * Many clubs like to emphasize, for lack of a better term, an "English" style of play (or bootball and other corruptions thereof), that focuses on athletic ability over technical ability.
      * US Soccer seems to have no clue about reaching the Latino community.
      * And quite a few MLS clubs have no clue either. The Timbers, despite having a lackluster academy program, are better than quite a few MLS clubs at this actually. But Gonzales, a kid who was a fixture with US youth teams for quite a few years and who won the Sueño, didn't get a sniff from MLS and ended up in Liga MX. And like a hot girlfriend who moves away from college--how soon before her heart starts to wander?
      Or maybe the Mexico team is just better then USA squad with better $ opportunities and they invited him to join for World Cup, whilst US team stays home. Maybe that was the reasons.

      Don't let me stop you from whining about the other stuff though.

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
        Or maybe the Mexico team is just better then USA squad with better $ opportunities and they invited him to join for World Cup, whilst US team stays home. Maybe that was the reasons.

        Don't let me stop you from whining about the other stuff though.
        Because us soccer sucks. 350 million people and your team is not better than Iceland?
        Serious issues

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
          Don't let me stop you from whining about the other stuff though.
          Lol. So good of the problem to show up in the thread. Right on time.

          The whole idea is that soccer here would be improved if we could better integrate Latinos. Missing the World Cup is an effect of the problem, not the cause.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
            Lol. So good of the problem to show up in the thread. Right on time.

            The whole idea is that soccer here would be improved if we could better integrate Latinos. Missing the World Cup is an effect of the problem, not the cause.
            So true because Latinos have proven to be the superior athlete's in all other USA sporting endeavors. Killing it in Track and Field, thrashing people in football and dunking on everybody in basketball.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
              So true because Latinos have proven to be the superior athlete's in all other USA sporting endeavors. Killing it in Track and Field, thrashing people in football and dunking on everybody in basketball.
              And you're a Best Athletes Truther? We got a live one here, folks.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                So true because Latinos have proven to be the superior athlete's in all other USA sporting endeavors. Killing it in Track and Field, thrashing people in football and dunking on everybody in basketball.
                So far this thread would be exhibit A when discussing the state of soccer in America, some people acknowledge the problem but most deny it.
                I don't think anyone is suggesting that Latinos are superior athletes and better than everybody else ,I could explain that to you but you wouldn't get it.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                  So true because Latinos have proven to be the superior athlete's in all other USA sporting endeavors. Killing it in Track and Field, thrashing people in football and dunking on everybody in basketball.
                  Dude.

                  Nobody has suggest that Latinos (or any other race) are superior athletes. (Though I would note that Phil Knight just hired a Latino to run his football team...)

                  However, most every other country in the world, including pretty much anywhere in Latin America, can lay claim to a better soccer tradition than the US has. Some of the best soccer players who are found in this country weren't born here, or have parents who weren't born here. And especially for those who aren't working for Intel and living in Bethany--the US soccer structure does a pretty bad job of assimilating them.

                  And reading some of the posts in this forum, it becomes apparent that SOME parents LIKE having soccer be like tennis--a mostly-upper-class pursuit. Forget the pros or an international career, kids--it's all about getting into college.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                    Dude.

                    Nobody has suggest that Latinos (or any other race) are superior athletes. (Though I would note that Phil Knight just hired a Latino to run his football team...)

                    However, most every other country in the world, including pretty much anywhere in Latin America, can lay claim to a better soccer tradition than the US has. Some of the best soccer players who are found in this country weren't born here, or have parents who weren't born here. And especially for those who aren't working for Intel and living in Bethany--the US soccer structure does a pretty bad job of assimilating them.

                    And reading some of the posts in this forum, it becomes apparent that SOME parents LIKE having soccer be like tennis--a mostly-upper-class pursuit. Forget the pros or an international career, kids--it's all about getting into college.
                    Latinos are good at soccer valid point. But US Soccer struggles on men's side can't be blamed on ignoring the Latino community. Sorry not buying that, and from what I have seen the Latino community especially on the boys side of soccer is thriving in the USA.

                    I think it is proper and valid to say on the girls side Latinos are not as prominent. Don't know if that is a cultural issue in the Latino community or? But we win on girls side internationally so I guess it's not an issue then?

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                      Latinos are good at soccer valid point. But US Soccer struggles on men's side can't be blamed on ignoring the Latino community. Sorry not buying that, and from what I have seen the Latino community especially on the boys side of soccer is thriving in the USA.
                      Wait, are you suggesting that US Soccer wouldn't be improved by better integrating Latinos? Really?

                      And then, in the latter part of your comment, are you suggesting that the pay-to-play system doesn't perpetuate socioeconomic disparities in a way that prevents Latinos from having as much access as other groups?

                      Man, it's amazing to watch people try so hard to jam their heads in the sand. These aren't controversial topics. Why don't you head out to some of these fields that feature the best surfaces, best equipment, and best training and watch for a bit. Then tell me: is it the best players being given the best access? Or is it some clumsy kids climbing out of range rovers that are getting the best bites at that apple.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                        Wait, are you suggesting that US Soccer wouldn't be improved by better integrating Latinos? Really?

                        And then, in the latter part of your comment, are you suggesting that the pay-to-play system doesn't perpetuate socioeconomic disparities in a way that prevents Latinos from having as much access as other groups?

                        Man, it's amazing to watch people try so hard to jam their heads in the sand. These aren't controversial topics. Why don't you head out to some of these fields that feature the best surfaces, best equipment, and best training and watch for a bit. Then tell me: is it the best players being given the best access? Or is it some clumsy kids climbing out of range rovers that are getting the best bites at that apple.
                        My personal view is Latinos are being integrated well on the boys side and are welcomed in. DA it seems has worked hard at including Latino community. US Soccer is not good because our best athletes simply dont play soccer. To much competition with other sports and activities in the USA which are simply easier to play.

                        I think you may have a point on the girls side and it is worth talking about. Is this a issue in Latino Community, or is pay to play limiting access? I can't imagine pay to play leadership at any club not making spots available for kids and families that need assistance.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                          US Soccer is not good because our best athletes simply dont play soccer. To much competition with other sports and activities in the USA which are simply easier to play.
                          You should understand how far outside the debate your "Best Athletes" opinion is. We don't need better athletes: we need better soccer players. "Best Athletes" can pick up a basketball when they're 15 and still make the NBA. Soccer - like it or not - is not that kind of sport. All it takes is one look at the top players in the world and you can see that athleticism is just a small part of what allows someone to excel in soccer. Or, if you need an example closer to home, go watch our big, strong corn-fed Oregonians get smacked around by smaller kids in southern california.

                          The US is already renowned for its players' athleticism, fitness, and work rate. We're also known for being not very good technically and tactically. It's the latter areas where our largest soccer-first demographic can help us if we integrate them more thoroughly.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                            My personal view is Latinos are being integrated well on the boys side and are welcomed in. DA it seems has worked hard at including Latino community. US Soccer is not good because our best athletes simply dont play soccer. To much competition with other sports and activities in the USA which are simply easier to play.

                            I think you may have a point on the girls side and it is worth talking about. Is this a issue in Latino Community, or is pay to play limiting access? I can't imagine pay to play leadership at any club not making spots available for kids and families that need assistance.
                            Depends on where you are.

                            Timbers are good at reaching out to local Latino community (though they somehow missed out on Gaytan until he went and won the Sueno, though they quickly realized their mistake). I give them points for trying.

                            A few prominent DA teams have large numbers of Latino players on the roster, including some whose families are unable to afford club soccer without assistance.

                            A few other local DA teams seem to cater to the McMansion crowd.

                            One concern I have about the DA is--there's a lot of places where it isn't (south Texas, for instance)--and US Soccer seems to take the position that DA will be THE platform for boys going forward. If that effectively means that boys who don't HAVE a local DA team available will be given short shrift, that's a problem.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                              You should understand how far outside the debate your "Best Athletes" opinion is. We don't need better athletes: we need better soccer players. "Best Athletes" can pick up a basketball when they're 15 and still make the NBA. Soccer - like it or not - is not that kind of sport. All it takes is one look at the top players in the world and you can see that athleticism is just a small part of what allows someone to excel in soccer. Or, if you need an example closer to home, go watch our big, strong corn-fed Oregonians get smacked around by smaller kids in southern california.

                              The US is already renowned for its players' athleticism, fitness, and work rate. We're also known for being not very good technically and tactically. It's the latter areas where our largest soccer-first demographic can help us if we integrate them more thoroughly.
                              Corn feed and big have nothing to do with this. We are not building an offensive line. Quick, Fast and agile. You can see a top player with these skills on any soccer field in a second. Speed and quickness rule in any sport. We have good coaches and our system isn't broke. You may be to close to this to use a discerning eye.

                              Comment

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