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Are Clubs a Cartel?

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    #31
    So yes-it’s a cartel. Whether or not to play into depends on the goal and confidence of the player knowing these realities.

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      #32
      Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
      So yes-it’s a cartel. Whether or not to play into depends on the goal and confidence of the player knowing these realities.
      Or, put another way, basically like all other youth sports in this country.

      Comment


        #33
        Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
        It depends what level of college soccer he aspires towards.

        D1 is moreso than ever recruiting from DA. The exceptions to this rule are your high school all Americans, all New England, and the top players on NPL teams that compete at National Tournaments (Class of 2017 was Stars, Class of 2018 is GPS).

        D2 and elite D3 teams (Tufts Brandeis Amherst Messiah etc). Likewise recruit from DA more than past. They are also populated by High school all New England/all state, the remnants of the aforementioned Nationally competitive club teams, and the top players of other high quality regional club teams. If your son is one of the best players on a competitive Prep team he may be in position to bypass the club route if he reaches out to coaches to receive adequate and early enough visibility to these competitive programs.

        Mid-Low level D3 Still includes high school conference all stars, former quality club players off of low NPL/NEP level, and a blend of other athletes such as multi sport competitors. The lack of widespread competitive recruitment leads to walk on opportunities being prevalent and club background to be thereby irrelevant. For Mid Level D3 a quality high school program should be adequate so long as he again Pursues the team in question and they personally come to a match, they typically extend preseason tryout invitations as opposed to true “commitments”.
        All you have to do is stop with the exception to your first point. The reality is if your kid can play soccer very well things like accolades follow them regardless of who they play for and where they play and those accolades more so than anything will dictate where a player lands. Talent is the key ingredient that all the coaches look for and it is actually amazing how they know how to find it. You can't manufacture talent that isn't there and spending a lot of money on club soccer in no way ensures that a kid without talent will land anywhere. You are simply pushing the DA's club's agenda when you push the idea that the DA the ingredient that is helping marginal players land in D3 programs. The truth of the matter is the primary factor behind landing on a D3 roster is basically a desire to attend the school and a desire to be on the soccer team, because 99% of the players get absolutely zero special consideration with admissions and so there really is no such thing as recruitment for soccer at that level. When you boil it down, at the D3 level what the coaches are really doing is recruiting for the admissions department, not vice versa.

        Comment


          #34
          Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
          All you have to do is stop with the exception to your first point. The reality is if your kid can play soccer very well things like accolades follow them regardless of who they play for and where they play and those accolades more so than anything will dictate where a player lands. Talent is the key ingredient that all the coaches look for and it is actually amazing how they know how to find it. You can't manufacture talent that isn't there and spending a lot of money on club soccer in no way ensures that a kid without talent will land anywhere. You are simply pushing the DA's club's agenda when you push the idea that the DA the ingredient that is helping marginal players land in D3 programs. The truth of the matter is the primary factor behind landing on a D3 roster is basically a desire to attend the school and a desire to be on the soccer team, because 99% of the players get absolutely zero special consideration with admissions and so there really is no such thing as recruitment for soccer at that level. When you boil it down, at the D3 level what the coaches are really doing is recruiting for the admissions department, not vice versa.
          Thus speaketh, BTNT. Classic. Hey Amherst, Williams, Messiah, Trinity (TX), Haverford, Rowan, Montclair State, Ohio Wesleyan hopefuls.....quit your club teams, play with your high school squad two months a year, just tell the school you want to attend and tell the coach you want to play, and you'll be a D3 All American. This is really good news.

          Comment


            #35
            Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
            All you have to do is stop with the exception to your first point. The reality is if your kid can play soccer very well things like accolades follow them regardless of who they play for and where they play and those accolades more so than anything will dictate where a player lands. Talent is the key ingredient that all the coaches look for and it is actually amazing how they know how to find it. You can't manufacture talent that isn't there and spending a lot of money on club soccer in no way ensures that a kid without talent will land anywhere. You are simply pushing the DA's club's agenda when you push the idea that the DA the ingredient that is helping marginal players land in D3 programs. The truth of the matter is the primary factor behind landing on a D3 roster is basically a desire to attend the school and a desire to be on the soccer team, because 99% of the players get absolutely zero special consideration with admissions and so there really is no such thing as recruitment for soccer at that level. When you boil it down, at the D3 level what the coaches are really doing is recruiting for the admissions department, not vice versa.
            Do you believe your post is objectively true and fair, or, more a reflection of your extremely injured narcissism?

            Comment


              #36
              Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
              Do you believe your post is objectively true and fair, or, more a reflection of your extremely injured narcissism?
              Not OP, but a little of both I’d say, it’s true that if you have talent and sustain it then your set. But club only helps with getting more touches and exposure. The more important soccer is to the college situation (importance of program strength, using it as a vessel to get into reach schools) the more valuable it would be to have increased exposure.

              Comment


                #37
                Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                All you have to do is stop with the exception to your first point. The reality is if your kid can play soccer very well things like accolades follow them regardless of who they play for and where they play and those accolades more so than anything will dictate where a player lands. Talent is the key ingredient that all the coaches look for and it is actually amazing how they know how to find it. You can't manufacture talent that isn't there and spending a lot of money on club soccer in no way ensures that a kid without talent will land anywhere. You are simply pushing the DA's club's agenda when you push the idea that the DA the ingredient that is helping marginal players land in D3 programs. The truth of the matter is the primary factor behind landing on a D3 roster is basically a desire to attend the school and a desire to be on the soccer team, because 99% of the players get absolutely zero special consideration with admissions and so there really is no such thing as recruitment for soccer at that level. When you boil it down, at the D3 level what the coaches are really doing is recruiting for the admissions department, not vice versa.
                Your pontifications don't match with my families actual experience. At all. Soccer was the difference maker in both D1 (partial athletic scholarship) and D3 (Presidents Merit $) for both our kids.

                And their development was not solely a result of club soccer guys with funny accents. They played multiple sports plus soccer in HS, indoor futsal, local club soccer, local ethnic leagues with adults, as well as guesting with various clubs at local and showcase tournaments (Teams often looking for guest players.). Both showed well at college clinic days, where discussions began between sophmore and senior years. Commitments not consummated until senior years because neither was mature and ready to negotiate with college recruiters.

                Comment


                  #38
                  Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                  Not OP, but a little of both I’d say, it’s true that if you have talent and sustain it then your set. But club only helps with getting more touches and exposure. The more important soccer is to the college situation (importance of program strength, using it as a vessel to get into reach schools) the more valuable it would be to have increased exposure.
                  I think you missed the point. The issue isn't whether club is necessary but rather whether playing and training in a competitive environment for more than 2-3 months a year with a high school team is necessary, and also whether no talent at all is required to play at decent and higher levels of D3. In other words, do you agree that all you have to do is tell a school you want to go and show up for tryouts in order to be a viable player at a good D3 level? Coincidence or not, 95% of the players on rosters for top 50-75 D3 programs played club soccer and the majority of them at higher levels of club for more than 3-4 years minimum. And the impact players in good D3 programs generally were at least All State level with most being the equivalent of All New England.

                  Comment


                    #39
                    Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                    Do you believe your post is objectively true and fair, or, more a reflection of your extremely injured narcissism?
                    Over the years I have seen countless parents throw tens of thousands of dollars at things like club soccer, club hockey, AAU baseball and AAU basketball and it never move the dial one bit on their kid's trajectory towards their college landing spot. The key factor always is the amount of talent a kid has and their willingness to work on being the best player they can be, not the clubs they belong to and the leagues they play in. I just gave an example of a kid I coached in high school in similar thread that is the poster child for my point. The kid spent all of his time training for baseball and playing AAU baseball once he got to high school and all he basically did for soccer was play varsity soccer during the season. No doubt about it though, he was a very good soccer player in high school and his accolades prove it. Those accolades are what got him on a D1 college roster, not club soccer. More important, having been around a lot of kids as a high school coach I can truthfully say that he is not the only case like this that I know of. Make no mistake, club soccer is usually part of the equation but it will never take the place of talent and work ethic, it is simply a convenient place to do that work. That work can really be done in other places and in other ways you just have to have the desire to find them.

                    Comment


                      #40
                      Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                      Over the years I have seen countless parents throw tens of thousands of dollars at things like club soccer, club hockey, AAU baseball and AAU basketball and it never move the dial one bit on their kid's trajectory towards their college landing spot. The key factor always is the amount of talent a kid has and their willingness to work on being the best player they can be, not the clubs they belong to and the leagues they play in. I just gave an example of a kid I coached in high school in similar thread that is the poster child for my point. The kid spent all of his time training for baseball and playing AAU baseball once he got to high school and all he basically did for soccer was play varsity soccer during the season. No doubt about it though, he was a very good soccer player in high school and his accolades prove it. Those accolades are what got him on a D1 college roster, not club soccer. More important, having been around a lot of kids as a high school coach I can truthfully say that he is not the only case like this that I know of. Make no mistake, club soccer is usually part of the equation but it will never take the place of talent and work ethic, it is simply a convenient place to do that work. That work can really be done in other places and in other ways you just have to have the desire to find them.
                      Oh, you posted again over here! Too funny! Now you're saying takes talent plus a lot of hard work. Good for you. Evolving at a glacial pace.

                      Comment


                        #41
                        Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                        Oh, you posted again over here! Too funny! Now you're saying takes talent plus a lot of hard work. Good for you. Evolving at a glacial pace.
                        Got to start with what god gave you and work from there. If god wasn't kind to your kid then nothing is going to make up for that.

                        Comment


                          #42
                          Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                          Got to start with what god gave you and work from there. If god wasn't kind to your kid then nothing is going to make up for that.
                          Fixed it.

                          Got to start with what god gave you and work from there. If god wasn't kind to you, then nothing is going to make up for that.

                          God hasn't been kind intellectually. Now I can agree with you 100% ;)

                          Comment


                            #43
                            BTNT, why do you always make a point of denying who you are? Ignore if you wish, but the denials are not flattering in case you were wondering.

                            Comment


                              #44
                              Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                              It depends what level of college soccer he aspires towards.

                              D1 is moreso than ever recruiting from DA. The exceptions to this rule are your high school all Americans, all New England, and the top players on NPL teams that compete at National Tournaments (Class of 2017 was Stars, Class of 2018 is GPS).

                              D2 and elite D3 teams (Tufts Brandeis Amherst Messiah etc). Likewise recruit from DA more than past. They are also populated by High school all New England/all state, the remnants of the aforementioned Nationally competitive club teams, and the top players of other high quality regional club teams. If your son is one of the best players on a competitive Prep team he may be in position to bypass the club route if he reaches out to coaches to receive adequate and early enough visibility to these competitive programs.

                              Mid-Low level D3 Still includes high school conference all stars, former quality club players off of low NPL/NEP level, and a blend of other athletes such as multi sport competitors. The lack of widespread competitive recruitment leads to walk on opportunities being prevalent and club background to be thereby irrelevant. For Mid Level D3 a quality high school program should be adequate so long as he again Pursues the team in question and they personally come to a match, they typically extend preseason tryout invitations as opposed to true “commitments”.
                              Well said.

                              Comment


                                #45
                                Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                                All you have to do is stop with the exception to your first point. The reality is if your kid can play soccer very well things like accolades follow them regardless of who they play for and where they play and those accolades more so than anything will dictate where a player lands. Talent is the key ingredient that all the coaches look for and it is actually amazing how they know how to find it. You can't manufacture talent that isn't there and spending a lot of money on club soccer in no way ensures that a kid without talent will land anywhere. You are simply pushing the DA's club's agenda when you push the idea that the DA the ingredient that is helping marginal players land in D3 programs. The truth of the matter is the primary factor behind landing on a D3 roster is basically a desire to attend the school and a desire to be on the soccer team, because 99% of the players get absolutely zero special consideration with admissions and so there really is no such thing as recruitment for soccer at that level. When you boil it down, at the D3 level what the coaches are really doing is recruiting for the admissions department, not vice versa.
                                Even better point. If your kid has talent it is really amazing how all the college coaches end up knowing who they are. Ya just can't manufacture what isn't there no matter how much money ya spend.

                                Comment

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