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Timbers announce departure of youth technical director Larry Sunderland

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    #16
    Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
    Who determines if it is crap.
    People who know about football? People who know about developing good footballers?

    It's fine to chase results as the kids get older because crap can't win with any consistency. Do it at u15 and below at your own risk.

    Comment


      #17
      Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
      It depends how you win. If you win by playing crap then you're going to produce crap.
      It depends on the age.

      The closer to middle school you are, the more effective it is to win games by playing bootball, but that is not an effective way to train potential pros.

      As kids age, and encounter better and better competition (particularly skilled defenses that aren't going to get beat by a steady procession of longballs into space), such tactics fail.

      Obviously the Timbers first team, which sells tickets, should play to win. It's a professional team.

      T2... you still want to see winners, but the fans in the stands (and some do come, even if T2 won't ever sell out Prov Park) know that this is a development roster.

      But in general, the primary purpose of an academy is to develop players, not win trophies. Trophies and victories are an important barometer of development, but not the only one--and if you have a handful of top prospects and a pile of crap, you do what you can to train the prospects and don't worry so much about the scoreboard. An academy that wins a U15 trophy but sees all the players cut by U19, didn't accomplish its primary goal.

      Comment


        #18
        Thank you !

        Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
        People who know about football? People who know about developing good footballers?

        It's fine to chase results as the kids get older because crap can't win with any consistency. Do it at u15 and below at your own risk.
        You are right !! U15 and above winning is important, it shows what you developed at U14 and below, winners or losers.

        The TA focus is U15 above that is why the US Development academy has standings. Those standings for U15 - U16/17 and U18/19 were posted on this thread and they are not doing well. That equals changes.

        Why did you waste everyone's time with your development question. Let me guess you didn't get a juice box at U15 you just got a seat in the stands.

        Comment


          #19
          Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
          Winning isn't important says the loser. If you are developing players you will win and those players will be winners and will advance to the first team because they are good.
          Hahahahahahahhahahahahhaha

          Wait a second...……..

          No I'm going again hahahahahahahahha

          Love that logic keep it coming :)

          Comment


            #20
            Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
            It depends on the age.

            The closer to middle school you are, the more effective it is to win games by playing bootball, but that is not an effective way to train potential pros.

            As kids age, and encounter better and better competition (particularly skilled defenses that aren't going to get beat by a steady procession of longballs into space), such tactics fail.

            Obviously the Timbers first team, which sells tickets, should play to win. It's a professional team.

            T2... you still want to see winners, but the fans in the stands (and some do come, even if T2 won't ever sell out Prov Park) know that this is a development roster.

            But in general, the primary purpose of an academy is to develop players, not win trophies. Trophies and victories are an important barometer of development, but not the only one--and if you have a handful of top prospects and a pile of crap, you do what you can to train the prospects and don't worry so much about the scoreboard. An academy that wins a U15 trophy but sees all the players cut by U19, didn't accomplish its primary goal.


            Key wording here is primary goal. Deviate from that based on wins and loses and your no longer developing players. Leave the wins and losses at all cost to the pro game it's what they are paid for.

            Comment


              #21
              getting paid

              Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
              Key wording here is primary goal. Deviate from that based on wins and loses and your no longer developing players. Leave the wins and losses at all cost to the pro game it's what they are paid for.
              Your club coach is getting paid, your DOC is getting paid lots, Win baby, or give the money back.

              Comment


                #22
                Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                You are right !! U15 and above winning is important, it shows what you developed at U14 and below, winners or losers.

                The TA focus is U15 above that is why the US Development academy has standings. Those standings for U15 - U16/17 and U18/19 were posted on this thread and they are not doing well. That equals changes.

                Why did you waste everyone's time with your development question. Let me guess you didn't get a juice box at U15 you just got a seat in the stands.
                No the OP BTW.

                Do you think a professional club cares that they have a 'winning' u14 or u15 team? Or that the 2/3 players from each group they have targeted as potential pro's are developing the habits they wish to see at each stage of development ?
                I think you'll find it's the latter. No one at a pro club cares if you win that u14 or u15 cup if it's at the expense of the 2/3 targeted players development being stifled. If you mange to win and do both it's seen as a bonus and of course the ideal situation.

                I've seen a U17 coach in Spain win a tournament with much bigger la Liga clubs than them in it and instead of being congratulated the coach was lambasted as one of the top targeted players in this case a CB was not driving out with the ball from CB to create overloads and numerical advantages. He played safe and won the tournament but at the expense of development in the eyes of the academy director.


                Always look at the bigger picture.

                Comment


                  #23
                  winners win

                  Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                  No the OP BTW.

                  Do you think a professional club cares that they have a 'winning' u14 or u15 team? Or that the 2/3 players from each group they have targeted as potential pro's are developing the habits they wish to see at each stage of development ?
                  I think you'll find it's the latter. No one at a pro club cares if you win that u14 or u15 cup if it's at the expense of the 2/3 targeted players development being stifled. If you mange to win and do both it's seen as a bonus and of course the ideal situation.

                  I've seen a U17 coach in Spain win a tournament with much bigger la Liga clubs than them in it and instead of being congratulated the coach was lambasted as one of the top targeted players in this case a CB was not driving out with the ball from CB to create overloads and numerical advantages. He played safe and won the tournament but at the expense of development in the eyes of the academy director.


                  Always look at the bigger picture.
                  Again you made my point U14 ????? Not listed. Yes I do think a pro academy club cares about winning, I know they do. The coach was not lambasting his CB because they were winning and not developing, but because he knew they could win by more.

                  Comment


                    #24
                    Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                    Again you made my point U14 ????? Not listed. Yes I do think a pro academy club cares about winning, I know they do. The coach was not lambasting his CB because they were winning and not developing, but because he knew they could win by more.
                    OK, if you say so :)

                    Comment


                      #25
                      Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                      Again you made my point U14 ????? Not listed. Yes I do think a pro academy club cares about winning, I know they do. The coach was not lambasting his CB because they were winning and not developing, but because he knew they could win by more.
                      While the OP was hard to read, I think what happened was the academy director lambasting the U14 coach, not the U14 coach lambasting the player.

                      In too much of youth soccer, centerbacks are told to get rid of the ball ASAP, not to dribble. Nice to hear of a director who cares about his defenders' ball skills rather than just telling them to hoof it.

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                        While the OP was hard to read, I think what happened was the academy director lambasting the U14 coach, not the U14 coach lambasting the player.

                        In too much of youth soccer, centerbacks are told to get rid of the ball ASAP, not to dribble. Nice to hear of a director who cares about his defenders' ball skills rather than just telling them to hoof it.
                        Larry got Lambasted in this case.

                        Comment


                          #27
                          It doesn’t matter who is the technical director.....the job is built for someone to fail.

                          It’s starts above Larry and how everything is set up.

                          Comment


                            #28
                            Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                            It doesn’t matter who is the technical director.....the job is built for someone to fail.

                            It’s starts above Larry and how everything is set up.
                            This right here is 100% correct

                            Comment


                              #29
                              Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                              Local tiny tot DA ran for a total of 3 years. I’m sure long enough for your son to be “overlooked” 3 different times.

                              So much negativity around a program that was aimed at youth development, weird. Amazing how many back seat coaches and what not are here on TS. I’m sure you would have done it much much better and of course your son would have been a star.

                              We keep repeating over and over again the same negativity about the same mistakes. Change won’t just happen, it will come through people actually doing something to make soccer better.

                              You’ve done what exactly?
                              Said no to bring a part of the chit show- as soon as we found out who and how it was being funded 2 years ago we passed. And based on what I have seen come out and what is still there we are still glad we said no. It was and continues to be a compromised and unethical situstion

                              Comment


                                #30
                                Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                                Again you made my point U14 ????? Not listed. Yes I do think a pro academy club cares about winning, I know they do. The coach was not lambasting his CB because they were winning and not developing, but because he knew they could win by more.
                                Did you see the U14s playing on ESPN today at the Nexen Man City Cup in Oceanside? National TV. Was great to hear the commentator talking about the strong showing from the MLS clubs. One west coast MLS team was, not surprisingly, absent.

                                Don’t tell me that doesn’t attract talent. Every kid wants to play on TV.

                                Btw Sounders beat LAFC and Surf today.

                                Comment

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