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The Odds of Landing an Athletic Scholarship < odds being admitted to Harvard ??

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    #16
    Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
    Good statistics.

    The NCAA allows each Division I college to give out up to 85 football scholarships! The next highest allotment of scholarships is women’s rowing at a maximum of 20 scholarships per school. Men's football programs definitely relegate male non football athletes to the poor step child category. But we still need to consider the following:

    More Men Receive Athletic Scholarships than Women

    Female athletes at the typical Division I-FBS (formerly Division I-A) school receive roughly: 28% of the total money spent on athletics, 31% of the recruiting dollars, and 42% of the athletic scholarship dollars.

    It is what it is
    Mens sports generate the vast majority of the revenue and even then, that's mostly football. There are really three difference types of sports programs: mens, womens, and football.

    Comment


      #17
      Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
      Remember, that is what they CAN offer. They don't HAVE to offer that many.
      Good point. At the end of the day I think parents of any athlete who may be counting on scholarship dollars are likely in for a rude awakening.

      Comment


        #18
        Bad math.....really bad math

        Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
        Just 3.3 percent of high school seniors playing men's basketball will have roster positions on NCAA teams as freshmen—with or without scholarships, according to NCAA data. For women, the figure is 3.7 percent.The odds are almost as slim in men's soccer, football, and baseball. The chance of getting an athletic scholarship is even smaller, even for students whose parents can devote the hundreds of hours--and thousands of dollars--that high-level youth sports often require.

        Put another way, the odds of landing a college scholarship in many major sports are lower than the chances of being admitted to Harvard, Yale, Princeton or Stanford.

        Overall, colleges and universities awarded more than $3 billion in athletic scholarships in 2013, but very few of those were full rides. In most sports, coaches are allowed to divvy up scholarships. In 2013, the average amount of money awarded to NCAA Division 1 athletes was $13,821 for men and $14,660 for women. Other divisions offer less, and Division 3 schools offer no athletic scholarships at all.

        "There's this great myth about how many scholarships there are out there," said Earhart.

        There's also a lot of pressure on those who do get athletic scholarships. Long practice hours, diminished fan attendance, and life on a different schedule from most students can take their toll on young athletes—as can the physical intensity of the sport itself.

        http://www.cnbc.com/id/101980451

        College athletes as a percentage of high school athletes:
        Men's soccer 9%
        Women's soccer 9.5%

        Full rides are almost mythical
        I have no reason to doubt the percentages cited above for soccer but lumping ALL HS soccer players in the pool is disingenuous. That would be like lumping all Seniors in the pool for Harrrrvard.

        A better measure would be to screen out the HS players who have no ambitions to play college soccer and focus on the number of players who play club soccer at a high level and would have a reasonable expectation to be considered for a scholarship. In our local market that would shrink the pool by 75%. If we hold the percentage of awards above constant it would increase the number to 40%. Further the information does not acknowledge the reality that many of the divisions ALSO award academic aid to the athletes many times doubling the value of the aid or substituting for athletic aid so the number is far from a complete or accurate picture of the opportunities.

        Lastly, the odds of a student with qualifying grades and or SAT/ACT and social activities getting into a specific Ivy League school, Stanford, Cal Tech or MIT is less than 10% so the headline is bogus. In 2011 Harrrvard accepted a little over 6.2% of the top students who applied and that does not represent the total pool of top students and that pool would represent about .00006% of all HS Seniors.

        http://www.thecrimson.com/article/20...students-year/

        Comment


          #19
          Originally posted by Slow Xavi View Post
          Doesn't change the thesis of this thread (scholarships are rare), but comes at it at a different angle (just d1 scholarships as a % of HS athletes). I do not believe the following captures % of student-athletes that receive academic scholarships, only D1 athletic scholarships.

          Following does call out the dramatic differences in available d1 scholarships for women than men, outside of football. However, odds still long.

          Article. When considered across all of Division I, that means that the maximum number of possible scholarships offered to women in the sport in Division I outnumber those available to men by a ratio of greater than 2-1 (4340 to 1950.3). According to the latest participation data from the National Federation of State High School Associations, almost 384,000 boys and 345,000 girls participated in soccer in the nation's high schools in the 2008-09 academic year. However, the odds against obtaining a Division I college scholarship for men are far longer (197-1) than they are for women (79-1).


          Odds of getting scholarship (source).


          Girls basketball - .9%
          Boys cross country/track and field - . 5%
          Girls cross country/track and field - .9%

          Football - 1.4%
          Boys Golf - .6%
          Girls Golf - 1.6%


          Boys Soccer - .4%
          Girls Soccer - 1%

          Softball - .7%

          Boys swimming and diving - .8%
          Girls swimming and diving - 1.2%


          Boys tennis - .6%
          Girls tennis - 1.1%
          Plus you've got to remember that "scholarship" does not mean "free ride" most of the time.
          Depending on the school and grades and number of quality applicants, etc... it often is a partial scholarship.

          Comment


            #20
            Please get facts

            Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
            Title 9 makes athletic scholarships a lot easier for girls.

            The ECNL comment is just a desperate TA fool going on about the fallacy they made up. ECNL will give athletes more exposure. That's it. ECNL will also give competitors the opportunity to compete at a higher level.

            This is a good article that puts athletic scholarships into perspective.
            Title IX does not make it easier for women, (they are called girls in high school, not college), to obtain scholarships. Women on college campuses out number men 55% to 45%, but get 40% of the scholarship dollars, or less. Football has 85 up to full scholarships whereas women's soccer has 14 that can be divided partially between players while soccer men have 9.9. Title IX is an attempt to make athletics more fair between men and women athletes. With more women trying to obtain athletic scholarships than men due to enrollment numbers, and having fewer dollars to chase, it's actually harder for women to obtain athletic scholarships than men.

            Comment


              #21
              Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
              I have no reason to doubt the percentages cited above for soccer but lumping ALL HS soccer players in the pool is disingenuous. That would be like lumping all Seniors in the pool for Harrrrvard.

              A better measure would be to screen out the HS players who have no ambitions to play college soccer and focus on the number of players who play club soccer at a high level and would have a reasonable expectation to be considered for a scholarship. In our local market that would shrink the pool by 75%. If we hold the percentage of awards above constant it would increase the number to 40%. Further the information does not acknowledge the reality that many of the divisions ALSO award academic aid to the athletes many times doubling the value of the aid or substituting for athletic aid so the number is far from a complete or accurate picture of the opportunities.

              Lastly, the odds of a student with qualifying grades and or SAT/ACT and social activities getting into a specific Ivy League school, Stanford, Cal Tech or MIT is less than 10% so the headline is bogus. In 2011 Harrrvard accepted a little over 6.2% of the top students who applied and that does not represent the total pool of top students and that pool would represent about .00006% of all HS Seniors.

              http://www.thecrimson.com/article/20...students-year/
              People use statistics in all sorts of ways generally to prove a point. I doubt very seriously if 40% of all competitive soccer players receive D1 athletic scholarships so that might be bad math as well. Even if you surmise that the article is twisting statistics to overstate a point, you can't ignore the implication; ATHLETIC D1 scholarships are not plentiful for any athlete, male or female football or otherwise.

              Comment


                #22
                Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                I have no reason to doubt the percentages cited above for soccer but lumping ALL HS soccer players in the pool is disingenuous. That would be like lumping all Seniors in the pool for Harrrrvard.

                A better measure would be to screen out the HS players who have no ambitions to play college soccer and focus on the number of players who play club soccer at a high level and would have a reasonable expectation to be considered for a scholarship. In our local market that would shrink the pool by 75%. If we hold the percentage of awards above constant it would increase the number to 40%. Further the information does not acknowledge the reality that many of the divisions ALSO award academic aid to the athletes many times doubling the value of the aid or substituting for athletic aid so the number is far from a complete or accurate picture of the opportunities.

                Lastly, the odds of a student with qualifying grades and or SAT/ACT and social activities getting into a specific Ivy League school, Stanford, Cal Tech or MIT is less than 10% so the headline is bogus. In 2011 Harrrvard accepted a little over 6.2% of the top students who applied and that does not represent the total pool of top students and that pool would represent about .00006% of all HS Seniors.

                http://www.thecrimson.com/article/20...students-year/
                It would be interesting to see how the 6.1% acceptance rate extrapolates across the diversity spectrum. I bet it is much lower for some and much, ,much higher for others.

                Taken from your article:
                Those accepted to the Class of 2015 represent an increasingly diverse spectrum of students from around the country and the world: 17.8 percent of the accepted class is Asian-American, 11.8 percent is African-American, 12.1 percent is Latino, 1.9 percent is Native American, and 0.2 percent is Native Hawaiian. Harvard said in a press release that the number of Latino and African-American students in the Class of 2015 will most likely be these groups’ highest representation in any class yet.

                Comment


                  #23
                  Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                  Title IX does not make it easier for women, (they are called girls in high school, not college), to obtain scholarships. Women on college campuses out number men 55% to 45%, but get 40% of the scholarship dollars, or less. Football has 85 up to full scholarships whereas women's soccer has 14 that can be divided partially between players while soccer men have 9.9. Title IX is an attempt to make athletics more fair between men and women athletes. With more women trying to obtain athletic scholarships than men due to enrollment numbers, and having fewer dollars to chase, it's actually harder for women to obtain athletic scholarships than men.
                  Your point assumes that men and women pursue athletics at an equal rate of participation versus the fact that more women than men attend college. I don't think the numbers bear that out; and the quick research I did supports that conclusion. The female participation rate jumped dramatically when Title IX was enacted, but largely leveled off although it's still increasing slightly. For males, it's pretty flat across the board. Put it this way, it's hard for either men or women to obtain athletic scholarships.

                  Comment


                    #24
                    Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                    People use statistics in all sorts of ways generally to prove a point. I doubt very seriously if 40% of all competitive soccer players receive D1 athletic scholarships so that might be bad math as well. Even if you surmise that the article is twisting statistics to overstate a point, you can't ignore the implication; ATHLETIC D1 scholarships are not plentiful for any athlete, male or female football or otherwise.
                    Soooo! All those on this forum claiming to have received D1 scholarships are full of sh*t.
                    Not surprised.

                    Comment


                      #25
                      Speaking of Elite Colleges... One needs wealth to be elite

                      Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                      It would be interesting to see how the 6.1% acceptance rate extrapolates across the diversity spectrum. I bet it is much lower for some and much, ,much higher for others.

                      Taken from your article:
                      Those accepted to the Class of 2015 represent an increasingly diverse spectrum of students from around the country and the world: 17.8 percent of the accepted class is Asian-American, 11.8 percent is African-American, 12.1 percent is Latino, 1.9 percent is Native American, and 0.2 percent is Native Hawaiian. Harvard said in a press release that the number of Latino and African-American students in the Class of 2015 will most likely be these groups’ highest representation in any class yet.
                      The Battle for Elite College Admissions

                      As a direct consequence, the war over college admissions has become astonishingly fierce, with many middle- or upper-middle class families investing quantities of time and money that would have seemed unimaginable a generation or more ago, leading to an all-against-all arms race that immiserates the student and exhausts the parents. The absurd parental efforts of an Amy Chua, as recounted in her 2010 bestseller Battle Hymn of the Tiger Mother, were simply a much more extreme version of widespread behavior among her peer-group, which is why her story resonated so deeply among our educated elites. Over the last thirty years, America’s test-prep companies have grown from almost nothing into a $5 billion annual industry, allowing the affluent to provide an admissions edge to their less able children. Similarly, the enormous annual tuition of $35,000 charged by elite private schools such as Dalton or Exeter is less for a superior high school education than for the hope of a greatly increased chance to enter the Ivy League.5 Many New York City parents even go to enormous efforts to enroll their children in the best possible pre-Kindergarten program, seeking early placement on the educational conveyer belt which eventually leads to Harvard.6 Others cut corners in a more direct fashion, as revealed in the huge SAT cheating rings recently uncovered in affluent New York suburbs, in which students were paid thousands of dollars to take SAT exams for their wealthier but dimmer classmates.7

                      But given such massive social and economic value now concentrated in a Harvard or Yale degree, the tiny handful of elite admissions gatekeepers enjoy enormous, almost unprecedented power to shape the leadership of our society by allocating their supply of thick envelopes. Even billionaires, media barons, and U.S. Senators may weigh their words and actions more carefully as their children approach college age. And if such power is used to select our future elites in a corrupt manner, perhaps the inevitable result is the selection of corrupt elites, with terrible consequences for America. Thus, the huge Harvard cheating scandal, and perhaps also the endless series of financial, business, and political scandals which have rocked our country over the last decade or more, even while our national economy has stagnated.

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                        It would be interesting to see how the 6.1% acceptance rate extrapolates across the diversity spectrum. I bet it is much lower for some and much, ,much higher for others.

                        Taken from your article:
                        Those accepted to the Class of 2015 represent an increasingly diverse spectrum of students from around the country and the world: 17.8 percent of the accepted class is Asian-American, 11.8 percent is African-American, 12.1 percent is Latino, 1.9 percent is Native American, and 0.2 percent is Native Hawaiian. Harvard said in a press release that the number of Latino and African-American students in the Class of 2015 will most likely be these groups’ highest representation in any class yet.
                        Never check the Asian American box.....

                        Comment


                          #27
                          Because facts matter:

                          2013 total HS attendance 14.7 million with a 35%+ dropout rate resulting in a senior class of approximately 2.39 million graduates with 6,500 getting into Harrrrvard or .27%.

                          314 D1 schools awarding on average 3.5 girls scholarships annually = 1,099.
                          223 D2 schools with women's soccer awarding on average 2.5 scholarships annually =557

                          HS girls Soccer participation including all divisions is 345,000 which would result in a Senior Class of 32,035 because the gross pool is inflated buy 3 years of JV teams and a 35% drop out rate.

                          It is my understanding that those D1 & 2 scholarships are typically divided by .5 over the life of the athlete therefore there are actually on average 3,313 scholarship offers available which translates to a gross availability of 10.34% or FORTY TWO TIMES greater than Harrrrvard for the entire graduating class.

                          Now lets adjust the qualifications for each group to recognize there are minimum qualifications that need to be met, Taking the top 2% of Seniors as being eligible to apply to Harrravrd and you get 47,800. If 6,500 are admitted you get a 13.6 % acceptance rate for the QUALIUFIED students.

                          Adjusting the qualifications for the 32,035 pool of Senior female soccer players I think it would be fair to say that at best 33% want to or have the requisite physical qualifications when you look out over all divisions and account for rural vs. urban soccer. Therefore ,you have 10,571 qualified players vying for 3,313 scholarships which results in an acceptance rate of 31.34%.

                          So for the QUALIFIED in each group you are more than twice as likely to get that soccer scholarship than you are to get "into" Harrrvard!

                          Now trying to make an apples to apples comparison the top 10 girl soccer programs in each division have on average 60 openings each year. To have the same odds of getting on one of those teams you have for getting into Harrrvard you have to be in the top 143 of Senior players nation wide. On a population basis that would translate 1.4 players per year from Oregon and is about what we have experienced over the past decade excluding the U of P program.

                          Without dismissing the value of getting "into" Harrrvard the comparison is economically invalid. Currently 60% of all Harvard students get aid in varying amounts so if you were trying to determine the economic value of either choice you would need to exclude 40% of the Harvard acceptances who are paying the full COA of $65,000 for the 2013/14 year. If we assume the same 50% scholarship value for the other 60% receiving aid it reduces the comparison figure to 8.16% of qualified applicants receiving money to attend college.

                          So when looking at just what the odds are of getting money to attend college if you're a girl in the top 1/3 of soccer skills in your age group you have nearly FOUR TIMES the likelihood of getting scholastic aid via soccer than a person in the academic top 2% of getting into and money to attend just Harrrvard.

                          Of course when you factor in all of the academic scholarships available to attend the top 20 colleges nationwide as we have aded together all the soccer scholarships the number likely exceeds exceeds 45,000 meaning that if your DD is in the top 2% of her class there is a scholarship waiting!

                          However,if she is not in that top 2% academically but in that top 1/3 of her soccer class she should not despair.

                          Comment


                            #28
                            Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                            But if you are not trying to get a scholarship by playing ECNL, then why are you doing it?
                            For the higher level of competition.

                            Comment


                              #29
                              Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                              Competition moron. Granted, I wouldn't expect a fat ass who never played competitive sports to understand this simple concept.
                              Hahahahahhahah look how mad these ecnl nutjobs get when they figure out they are dumber than posts and are starting to realize they got duped by the rest of the sheep and the fc recruiting gang.

                              Hahaha haha so mad!

                              Hurts when all the propaganda that you were sold on doesn't add up. But hey, you keep throwing money at problems and yelling at your kid. It will work out....

                              Hahahajaja

                              Comment


                                #30
                                Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                                2013 total HS attendance 14.7 million with a 35%+ dropout rate resulting in a senior class of approximately 2.39 million graduates with 6,500 getting into Harrrrvard or .27%.

                                314 D1 schools awarding on average 3.5 girls scholarships annually = 1,099.
                                223 D2 schools with women's soccer awarding on average 2.5 scholarships annually =557

                                HS girls Soccer participation including all divisions is 345,000 which would result in a Senior Class of 32,035 because the gross pool is inflated buy 3 years of JV teams and a 35% drop out rate.

                                It is my understanding that those D1 & 2 scholarships are typically divided by .5 over the life of the athlete therefore there are actually on average 3,313 scholarship offers available which translates to a gross availability of 10.34% or FORTY TWO TIMES greater than Harrrrvard for the entire graduating class.

                                Now lets adjust the qualifications for each group to recognize there are minimum qualifications that need to be met, Taking the top 2% of Seniors as being eligible to apply to Harrravrd and you get 47,800. If 6,500 are admitted you get a 13.6 % acceptance rate for the QUALIUFIED students.

                                Adjusting the qualifications for the 32,035 pool of Senior female soccer players I think it would be fair to say that at best 33% want to or have the requisite physical qualifications when you look out over all divisions and account for rural vs. urban soccer. Therefore ,you have 10,571 qualified players vying for 3,313 scholarships which results in an acceptance rate of 31.34%.

                                So for the QUALIFIED in each group you are more than twice as likely to get that soccer scholarship than you are to get "into" Harrrvard!

                                Now trying to make an apples to apples comparison the top 10 girl soccer programs in each division have on average 60 openings each year. To have the same odds of getting on one of those teams you have for getting into Harrrvard you have to be in the top 143 of Senior players nation wide. On a population basis that would translate 1.4 players per year from Oregon and is about what we have experienced over the past decade excluding the U of P program.

                                Without dismissing the value of getting "into" Harrrvard the comparison is economically invalid. Currently 60% of all Harvard students get aid in varying amounts so if you were trying to determine the economic value of either choice you would need to exclude 40% of the Harvard acceptances who are paying the full COA of $65,000 for the 2013/14 year. If we assume the same 50% scholarship value for the other 60% receiving aid it reduces the comparison figure to 8.16% of qualified applicants receiving money to attend college.

                                So when looking at just what the odds are of getting money to attend college if you're a girl in the top 1/3 of soccer skills in your age group you have nearly FOUR TIMES the likelihood of getting scholastic aid via soccer than a person in the academic top 2% of getting into and money to attend just Harrrvard.

                                Of course when you factor in all of the academic scholarships available to attend the top 20 colleges nationwide as we have aded together all the soccer scholarships the number likely exceeds exceeds 45,000 meaning that if your DD is in the top 2% of her class there is a scholarship waiting!

                                However,if she is not in that top 2% academically but in that top 1/3 of her soccer class she should not despair.
                                Very good analysis. Thank you.

                                Comment

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