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Are clubs really needed for DIII teams?

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    #16
    Agreed- these kids will work very hard at both academics and their sport. As a parent, I'd support/encourage my kid putting in the work for soccer during high school because it has all kinds of health, spiritual and other benefits, including helping the kid to get into Williams. At least with my kids though, you couldn't push them enough to do the amount of work that would be required to gain admission and play soccer at Williams- they have to have their own motivation to do that.

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      #17
      It's rather amazing how almost every TS thread becomes some debate having nothing to do with the initial topic or question.

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        #18
        Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
        Agreed- these kids will work very hard at both academics and their sport. As a parent, I'd support/encourage my kid putting in the work for soccer during high school because it has all kinds of health, spiritual and other benefits, including helping the kid to get into Williams. At least with my kids though, you couldn't push them enough to do the amount of work that would be required to gain admission and play soccer at Williams- they have to have their own motivation to do that.
        Well said. And to the other poster, yes, those kids habe the energy and passion to be top performers BOTH academically and in soccer. Yes, not many kids can do this, that's why Williams admission is so hard, and why so few are admitted.

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          #19
          Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
          You mustn't have a kid that fits the Williams profile. These kids tend to be very driven in everything they do. They usually don't need "encouragement" from their parents.
          No doubt, but there are only so many hours in a day and most of those types of students will prioritize their academics over their sport so how many hours are actually left for them to throw at a sport? I'm sure that there are kids that will attempt to do just that but if they are only putting in a hour or so a day how far is that actually going to get them? Juxtapose that to what a typical D1 bound athlete is spending. It better not just be an hour or so a day.

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            #20
            Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
            No doubt, but there are only so many hours in a day and most of those types of students will prioritize their academics over their sport so how many hours are actually left for them to throw at a sport? I'm sure that there are kids that will attempt to do just that but if they are only putting in a hour or so a day how far is that actually going to get them? Juxtapose that to what a typical D1 bound athlete is spending. It better not just be an hour or so a day.
            These kids can do it. Some don't even play soccer year round

            90 min a day+practices and games goes a long way. It's not necessarily the time, but the intensity of the training.

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              #21
              Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
              The part that has never computed is why would you want to encourage a kid to put all of the work that you are saying is necessary to play soccer for Williams? Most people pick that type of school for it's education, not because of it's sports teams and the sort of passion that you insist is necessary to make one of their athletic teams is usually directed towards academics. Are you trying to make the case that the students that go a school like Williams are so gifted and talented that they don't have to work on their academics and have tons of extra time to spend trying to make their soccer team instead?
              You left out that this has never computed FOR YOU. No one else has trouble understanding, BTNT. Why do kids play sports at Philips Exeter??? At Harvard? At Brown? Athletics at a place like Williams is considered PART OF the college and educational experience, not separate. Are you suggesting that a kid cannot be a serious student AND a dedicated athlete? Or is that only possible at a D1? Or are you saying academics are not important to at least some portion of kids at D1 places?

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                #22
                Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                You left out that this has never computed FOR YOU. No one else has trouble understanding, BTNT. Why do kids play sports at Philips Exeter??? At Harvard? At Brown? Athletics at a place like Williams is considered PART OF the college and educational experience, not separate. Are you suggesting that a kid cannot be a serious student AND a dedicated athlete? Or is that only possible at a D1? Or are you saying academics are not important to at least some portion of kids at D1 places?
                The sound you year is a mic drop! :-)

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                  #23
                  BTNT, do you believe all these kids screwed up devoting themselves to their soccer teams?

                  D3 Academic All-Americans

                  FIRST TEAM
                  Pos. Name School Yr. GPA Major
                  GK Andres Medina Rutgers-Newark So. 4.00 Finance / Accounting
                  D Brent Mandelkorn Trinity (Texas) Sr. 3.97 Engineering
                  D Jack McCambridge Carnegie Mellon Jr. 4.00 Mechanical Engineering
                  D Mike Swiercz (2) Johns Hopkins Sr. 3.90 Mechanical Engineering
                  D Austin Read (3) U.S. Coast Guard Academy Sr. 3.90 Electrical Engineering
                  M Nick Joslyn Simpson (Iowa) Sr. 4.00 Physics / Mathematics
                  M Jason McCartney (3) Emory Sr. 3.92 Biology
                  M Jacob Witte Calvin Jr. 3.88 Speech Pathology
                  F Garrett Lee Edgewood Sr. 3.91 Business Management
                  F Garrett Pochop (1) Simpson (Iowa) Sr. 3.92 Economics (Finance) / Management
                  F Danny Ruple Baldwin Wallace So. 3.88 Accounting / Finance
                  SECOND TEAM
                  Pos. Name School Yr. GPA Major
                  GK Gillen Beck Washington & Lee Sr. 3.95 Mathematics / Physics
                  D Nikolas Angyal Rochester Jr. 4.00 Chemical Engineering
                  D Brad Deckel Springfield (Mass.) Jr. 3.97 Criminala Justice
                  D Nate Gibbons (3) Lebanon Valley Sr. 3.96 Physics / Mathematics
                  D Cole Rosenberger Johns Hopkins Jr. 3.94 Environmental Engineering
                  D Ryan Stuntz (2) (*) MIT Sr. 3.92 Computer Science
                  M Chris Garbig Ohio Northern Sr. 4.00 Accounting
                  M Henry Myers Kenyon Sr. 3.72 Mathematics & Economics
                  M Jon Stopple Wisconsin-Platteville Sr. 4.00 Electrical Engineering / Industrial Control Systems
                  F Nick Kapetanos (1) Benedictine (Ill.) Sr. 3.65 Finance
                  F Kirby Robbins Messiah Sr. 3.85 Biology
                  F Nick Rutherford (1) Plymouth State Sr. 3.96 Finance
                  THIRD TEAM
                  Pos. Name School Yr. GPA Major
                  GK Ben Woodhouse Brandeis University Sr. 3.92 Economics & Business
                  D Daniel Ioos SUNY Oneonta So. 4.00 Business Economics
                  D Tobias Muellers Williams College Sr. 3.91 Chemistry
                  D Christoffer Staahl Manhattanville Sr. 3.93 Finance
                  M Braden Andryk (1) MSOE Sr. 3.53 Architectural Engineering
                  M Steven Collins (1) Rensselaer Polytechnic Sr. 3.92 Chemical Engineering / Quantitative Finance (G)
                  M Ian Schomer Maryville (Tenn.) Jr. 4.00 Mathematics
                  F Brian Galfond Catholic University Jr. 3.90 Mechanical Engineering
                  F Mark Robinson Rhodes Sr. 3.94 Business
                  F Adam Yaghmour Dominican (Ill.) Sr. 3.84 International Business / Business Administration

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                    #24
                    I think most players will need club training to play D3

                    Trying to get back on topic, I think the answer to the original question is yes, the typical potential DIII soccer player will need to play club at some level.

                    DAP, ECNL, NPL players will fill the majority of the DI and DII slots plus a fair amount of the DIII slots as well.

                    Given there are still plenty of decent players in the NEP that could play DIII, I would think it would be difficult to play DIII without any club training and only relying on town and HS for development.

                    IMHO

                    Comment


                      #25
                      Not clear on purpose of above posts. It seems like you are underscoring the point that D3 is about Academics first, and that sports are part of the "experience". Isn't that exactly BTNT's point?

                      D3 sports complement college life. D1 sports define college life

                      No one has stated that one is better than the other, only that a player should know which experience they want.

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                        Trying to get back on topic, I think the answer to the original question is yes, the typical potential DIII soccer player will need to play club at some level.

                        DAP, ECNL, NPL players will fill the majority of the DI and DII slots plus a fair amount of the DIII slots as well.

                        Given there are still plenty of decent players in the NEP that could play DIII, I would think it would be difficult to play DIII without any club training and only relying on town and HS for development.

                        IMHO
                        You are correct and actually underselling the truth. BTNT is going to flip out, but among typical high end non-DAP club teams (think perennial state cup semifinal clubs teams and higher), 1-2 will go D1, a couple might choose D2, and 6-8 might go D3. Half of the rosters of higher end club teams won't play college soccer at all. In addition to club or some equivalent, you actually have to be pretty good. There are notable DAP players over the past 5-7 years who have mostly grabbed bench at top-end D3s (including at least a handful of Revs DAP kids).

                        Comment


                          #27
                          Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                          Not clear on purpose of above posts. It seems like you are underscoring the point that D3 is about Academics first, and that sports are part of the "experience". Isn't that exactly BTNT's point?

                          D3 sports complement college life. D1 sports define college life

                          No one has stated that one is better than the other, only that a player should know which experience they want.
                          No, BTNT's point (ad nauseum) is why anyone would play D3 at all since even the time it takes to commit to playing D3 takes away from the what he believes should be the all-important academic pursuits at D3. He wants to tell us in what proportion to value things. His other point is that anyone can literally walk off the street with no training or real competitive challenges and be an impact player in the NESCAC.

                          Comment


                            #28
                            Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                            No, BTNT's point (ad nauseum) is why anyone would play D3 at all since even the time it takes to commit to playing D3 takes away from the what he believes should be the all-important academic pursuits at D3. He wants to tell us in what proportion to value things. His other point is that anyone can literally walk off the street with no training or real competitive challenges and be an impact player in the NESCAC.
                            Really? Hasn't the point actually always been stated in response to parents claiming that they never had any scholarship goals and were choosing D3 schools because they felt the academics were the most important thing.

                            Comment


                              #29
                              Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                              Trying to get back on topic, I think the answer to the original question is yes, the typical potential DIII soccer player will need to play club at some level.

                              DAP, ECNL, NPL players will fill the majority of the DI and DII slots plus a fair amount of the DIII slots as well.

                              Given there are still plenty of decent players in the NEP that could play DIII, I would think it would be difficult to play DIII without any club training and only relying on town and HS for development.

                              IMHO
                              Not the question that was asked. "Would private coaching sessions..."

                              Putting aside all of the replies that didn't answer the question, it's quite simple -- Anyone suggesting a player looking at playing D3 college who has played club soccer at the NEP level (not NPL/ECNL/DA), which means a D3 program that was available to them (not a player with NPL/ECNL/DA ability) needs to continuing playing club after playing for years, and can't maintain or even further develop with private coaching (instead of their NEP team coaching) is completely full of ****.

                              Comment


                                #30
                                Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                                Not clear on purpose of above posts. It seems like you are underscoring the point that D3 is about Academics first, and that sports are part of the "experience". Isn't that exactly BTNT's point?

                                D3 sports complement college life. D1 sports define college life

                                No one has stated that one is better than the other, only that a player should know which experience they want.
                                .
                                D1 sports define college life? Well not really for most, at least in a positive way.
                                Talk to some D1 players who get up at 6 in the dead of winter and don't actually get much playing time. Many of the blowhards in here rant about D1 because it makes them feel better to belittle a much more rewarding college experience. This might appear to lessen the misery they went through or will go through. But nobody else really cares ... so congrats on that D1!

                                Comment

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