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    Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
    There aren't many D2s that compete academically with NESCAC schools. Come on, you're not this thick. Do some research, starting with basic lists and putting your kids gpa and test scores into the countless college search websites on line. NESCAC schools are also very small and don't offer the breadth of programs bigger schools do. What does your kid want to study? Start with that.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...occer_programs

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...I_institutions



    P.S. Your child should be doing this, not you.
    Ignoring the useless insults - thanks for any info from posters that have been through this.

    Comment


      Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
      yes thank you. players has A plus grades and soccer resume but will have siblings hitting college together. For this family, costs will have to be factored in.
      The nytimes did an article, now a few years old, that listed the colleges awarding the most merit aid. It probably helps if you venture further away, geographically. Leaving the soccer piece out, I know SMU, Skidmore, Hobart, Denison, and Lewis and Clark offer significant merit aid.

      Comment


        Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
        The nytimes did an article, now a few years old, that listed the colleges awarding the most merit aid. It probably helps if you venture further away, geographically. Leaving the soccer piece out, I know SMU, Skidmore, Hobart, Denison, and Lewis and Clark offer significant merit aid.
        Wow. potentially useful information with a source given wherein to seek more information! what are you doing on TS!

        Comment


          Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
          Granted that with all of the watering down of club soccer you probably do find D3 level prospects contributing on teams but the reality still persists that if a kid had good D1 money offers to quality academic institutions on the table most wouldn't be going D3 simply because human nature is such that everyone takes their "best deal." All of the talk about Bridgeport vs NESCAC doesn't represent a real world scenario. Kids with NESCAC level brains aren't looking at Bridgeport any more than those kids with TRUE D1 potential aren't looking at it either. They're probably looking at schools BU, Colgate, Lehigh, Holy Cross etc from the Patriot League so if someone wants to make a realist argument it should be 75% from a Patriot League school vs a NESCAC one. Most families would take that money and run but that definitely doesn't fit the narrative here.
          I agreed up until a point. There are many true D1 talent that don’t have academics to get admitted into BU, HC or Colagate. Just as there are definitely families who have players stellar academics but without the talent of D1 or the financial ability for NESCACS (and I don’t mean the true need based cases. There are plenty of two teacher household families making just enough to be over the need based cut off‘s, but not wealthy enough to afford NESCAC’s with multiple children heading to college).

          Comment


            Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
            Granted that with all of the watering down of club soccer you probably do find D3 level prospects contributing on teams but the reality still persists that if a kid had good D1 money offers to quality academic institutions on the table most wouldn't be going D3 simply because human nature is such that everyone takes their "best deal." All of the talk about Bridgeport vs NESCAC doesn't represent a real world scenario. Kids with NESCAC level brains aren't looking at Bridgeport any more than those kids with TRUE D1 potential aren't looking at it either. They're probably looking at schools BU, Colgate, Lehigh, Holy Cross etc from the Patriot League so if someone wants to make a realist argument it should be 75% from a Patriot League school vs a NESCAC one. Most families would take that money and run but that definitely doesn't fit the narrative here.
            Your last part is true and is where the real tension is, if there is in fact any.

            75% to Colgate or Holy Cross or a Davidson? How many players get 75% or more to those schools?

            Let's say 40-50%. For BU, being in a city at a big school with greater variety of programs, and 50%, might win the day for some over at least some NESCACs (definitely Conn Coll, Trinity and maybe at least the next tier up....Bates, Colby, Hamilton, Tufts, Wesleyan).

            50% to HC or Bucknell versus any NESCAC? I'd personally have a hard time not taking that but I'm sure some families especially if they got good FA might still go with Williams, Amherst, Midd and Bowdoin in the end.

            50% to Davidson or Colgate? I'm taking that all day long, although there are definitely some for whom money isn't an issue who still might go with one of the top 4 NESCACs.

            Comment


              Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
              That is the point, though, and that's why what BTNT presents is so, so distorted. When some, and it's only some, posters say their kid plays for a NESCAC but could have played D1, they aren't talking about D1 at the Duke, UVA, UCLA or Harvard levels. They are talking about mid-majors and/or the kind of schools when the brochure comes in the mail the family basically throws it in the wastebasket. They are only saying a kid could have gotten money at a Quinnipiac or St Peter's or in the best cases some Patriot League school. These straw men are what destroys the discussions and the site....NO ONE is saying Williams plays better or tougher soccer than Harvard. NO ONE.
              Please stop your foolishness. The reality is there are plenty of fine academic institutions ranked in the bottom third of D1.

              Richmond is a highly regarded academic D1. They are ranked 301 out of 335.
              Davidson is a highly regarded academic D1. They are ranked 287 out of 335.
              Loyola Maryland is a highly regarded academic D1. They are ranked 280 out of 335.
              Cornel is a highly regarded academic D1. They are ranked 279 out of 335.
              Lafayette is a highly regarded academic D1. They are ranked 273 out of 335.
              Holy Cross is a highly regarded academic D1. They are ranked 260 out of 335.
              Vermont is a highly regarded academic D1. They are ranked 228 out of 335.

              Comment


                Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                Your last part is true and is where the real tension is, if there is in fact any.

                75% to Colgate or Holy Cross or a Davidson? How many players get 75% or more to those schools?

                Let's say 40-50%. For BU, being in a city at a big school with greater variety of programs, and 50%, might win the day for some over at least some NESCACs (definitely Conn Coll, Trinity and maybe at least the next tier up....Bates, Colby, Hamilton, Tufts, Wesleyan).

                50% to HC or Bucknell versus any NESCAC? I'd personally have a hard time not taking that but I'm sure some families especially if they got good FA might still go with Williams, Amherst, Midd and Bowdoin in the end.

                50% to Davidson or Colgate? I'm taking that all day long, although there are definitely some for whom money isn't an issue who still might go with one of the top 4 NESCACs.
                Agree; this is a more realistic assessment! it's not a simple equation - you have to be specific about which D1 and which NESCAC is being considered, and the individual financial situation has a huge impact.

                Comment


                  Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                  Please stop your foolishness. The reality is there are plenty of fine academic institutions ranked in the bottom third of D1.

                  Richmond is a highly regarded academic D1. They are ranked 301 out of 335.
                  Davidson is a highly regarded academic D1. They are ranked 287 out of 335.
                  Loyola Maryland is a highly regarded academic D1. They are ranked 280 out of 335.
                  Cornel is a highly regarded academic D1. They are ranked 279 out of 335.
                  Lafayette is a highly regarded academic D1. They are ranked 273 out of 335.
                  Holy Cross is a highly regarded academic D1. They are ranked 260 out of 335.
                  Vermont is a highly regarded academic D1. They are ranked 228 out of 335.
                  What's your point? I didn't say anything contradictory to that. I said Patriot-level schools, and sure, throw in Davidson, Colgate, Richmond, etc. I would guess it's tougher to get money at those schools than lesser academic D1s because so many kids would love to attend those schools.

                  Let's be real. My kids went to public school but the top club teams are filled with kids going to fancy New England prep schools. Most aren't sending their kids to Milton Academy or Nobles or Rivers or Loomis Chaffee or Choate or Exeter for their kids to end up at Fairfield or Bryant, much less Iona, FDU, St Peters, LIU, etc, etc

                  Comment


                    At the end of the day every situation is different. My daughter is good enough to play NESCAC, but from an academic perspective is not a strong enough student. She's good enough to play low level D1, but wanted to play for a more competitive program. She chose to play at a very competitive (soccer wise) D2 school that has her major, received 75% merit/athletic $$, and she is able to keep up academically. If my daughter had the academic chops, I would have pushed her towards NESCAC. Unfortunately, not EVERY kid has a GPA of 4.0 and can get into a NESCAC, there are many options out there that can work for your kid.

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                      Agree; this is a more realistic assessment! it's not a simple equation - you have to be specific about which D1 and which NESCAC is being considered, and the individual financial situation has a huge impact.
                      There are also very different sizes, environments, depth of programs etc. Going to a school smaller than some high schools in the middle of nowhere won't appeal to everyone. If you want a more specialized major that isn't offered everywhere you are likely to be looking at bigger schools.

                      Before you start looking seriously, take your kid to a mix of schools (big vs small, urban, suburban and rural) just to get an idea of the type. Then start diving deep on the academic fit, then lastly soccer.

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                        What's your point? I didn't say anything contradictory to that. I said Patriot-level schools, and sure, throw in Davidson, Colgate, Richmond, etc. I would guess it's tougher to get money at those schools than lesser academic D1s because so many kids would love to attend those schools.

                        Let's be real. My kids went to public school but the top club teams are filled with kids going to fancy New England prep schools. Most aren't sending their kids to Milton Academy or Nobles or Rivers or Loomis Chaffee or Choate or Exeter for their kids to end up at Fairfield or Bryant, much less Iona, FDU, St Peters, LIU, etc, etc
                        This cuts right to the heart of the matter. If your kid has the level of soccer talent a particular program is looking for you'll be amazed how easily things line up. If the coach there is pursuing (as in truly recruiting) your child it is not hard at all to get money from those schools. That's what recruiting is all about. We are not talking about merit aid. Merit aid could potentially couldn't be layered on top of the athletic scholarship to sweeten a deal even more.

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                          This cuts right to the heart of the matter. If your kid has the level of soccer talent a particular program is looking for you'll be amazed how easily things line up. If the coach there is pursuing (as in truly recruiting) your child it is not hard at all to get money from those schools. That's what recruiting is all about. We are not talking about merit aid. Merit aid could potentially couldn't be layered on top of the athletic scholarship to sweeten a deal even more.
                          The actual problem is not every kid has the "athletic chops" to be pursued so it limits their options to just D3. The rest of the back and forth about academics is just a smoke screen because there are plenty of high end academic choices in other the other divisions.

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                            Agree; this is a more realistic assessment! it's not a simple equation - you have to be specific about which D1 and which NESCAC is being considered, and the individual financial situation has a huge impact.
                            Here's the point about targeting. When the player's level of soccer talent is actually above what the program is normally able to recruit, that's when they start seeing offers like 75%. They don't have to be NT level, just better than what the program normally gets. For example if you have a player that a mid tier program like Maryland is offering legit money (ie 50%) but they want more academic rigor, the are going to find that coaches at lower ranked programs like Richmond are going to offer them much more money in order to drop down.

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                              There are also very different sizes, environments, depth of programs etc. Going to a school smaller than some high schools in the middle of nowhere won't appeal to everyone. If you want a more specialized major that isn't offered everywhere you are likely to be looking at bigger schools.

                              Before you start looking seriously, take your kid to a mix of schools (big vs small, urban, suburban and rural) just to get an idea of the type. Then start diving deep on the academic fit, then lastly soccer.
                              I agree that your plan is the ideal way to go about this. Unfortunately, the recruiting timing for soccer makes it hard to figure out the academic targeting for many kids. I know for my kids, it was hard to get real specific about courses of study or specialized majors when they were 15-16 (never mind the one that was being recruited at 13-14 under the old rules). Some kids know what they want to study at a pretty young age, or perhaps have shown what kinds of subjects they're unlikely to study. Others simply don't know what they want or even what they're best at, so having some schools with broad offerings and where kids can make later decisions as to academic focus is pretty important.

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                                Here's the point about targeting. When the player's level of soccer talent is actually above what the program is normally able to recruit, that's when they start seeing offers like 75%. They don't have to be NT level, just better than what the program normally gets. For example if you have a player that a mid tier program like Maryland is offering legit money (ie 50%) but they want more academic rigor, the are going to find that coaches at lower ranked programs like Richmond are going to offer them much more money in order to drop down.
                                This ^^^^^^

                                If I were counseling a player who's getting looks from good soccer programs (e.g., upper half of their conference but not top 30 type schools), this would be the most important point that I'd want them to understand. Trade down a level in program quality if you want to maximize your value to the program and the $'s they'll offer.

                                Comment

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