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    #16
    In terms of things that make all referees' jobs difficult, beyond coaching behavior:

    1. Lack of parent education. Many parents played the game; many did not, yell ridiculous things from the sideline. It is an issue for coaches (parents dump instructions) as it is for referees.

    2. Administrative Decisions. This single ref idea for 9v9 was idiotic. Yes it is a recommendation from US Soccer, but one in a long list of poor directives from bureaucrat. it is impossible to call offsides in some cases from the center! You are watching play around the ball, not focusing on the last line and suddenly it gets popped forward: honestly parents/coaches have a better view of whether it is offsides then the single ref; usually at the development level parent/coaches go with the flows, but it puts refs in a tough spot.

    Similar issue with a single ref in futsal (pros have 2) - can't always see the opposite line as well as players, parents, coaches on that sideline. In both cases these are admin decisions to manage cost, but make refs jobs harder.

    Still think there are gender issues in the way the game is called and it can put coaches in a tough spot, which is the subject of this thread, but also recognize other things at play.

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      #17
      Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
      In terms of things that make all referees' jobs difficult, beyond coaching behavior:

      1. Lack of parent education. Many parents played the game; many did not, yell ridiculous things from the sideline. It is an issue for coaches (parents dump instructions) as it is for referees.

      2. Administrative Decisions. This single ref idea for 9v9 was idiotic. Yes it is a recommendation from US Soccer, but one in a long list of poor directives from bureaucrat. it is impossible to call offsides in some cases from the center! You are watching play around the ball, not focusing on the last line and suddenly it gets popped forward: honestly parents/coaches have a better view of whether it is offsides then the single ref; usually at the development level parent/coaches go with the flows, but it puts refs in a tough spot.

      Similar issue with a single ref in futsal (pros have 2) - can't always see the opposite line as well as players, parents, coaches on that sideline. In both cases these are admin decisions to manage cost, but make refs jobs harder.

      Still think there are gender issues in the way the game is called and it can put coaches in a tough spot, which is the subject of this thread, but also recognize other things at play.
      I have a different point when it comes to 9v9 having 1 ref. I actually prefer this. At that age, if your biggest concern is close Offsides calls (they still get the easy ones right) then your focus is on the wrong thing. These same refs can learn offsides by being an assistant Ref for older games where one of their main focuses is offsides. I like the 1 ref as long as their is a Ref coach there. When there was 3 refs at that age they still blew offsides because any ref doing 9v9 is usually a new ref and not good. And people would get ticked off at the bad reffing, yell at the refs, and nobody got any better, instead just burned out the young refs. Now the Ref coach can help keep parents under control if they start getting to abusive, plus if your a coach you can go and point out when the ref makes a blunder and at least know they are going to be coached on that and hopefully improve.

      We all want good refs, but we aren't willing to recognize at the younger ages we are going to get terrible refs, and we need to accept that they will not be good, but they will get better, If we allow them to stay with it and get better.

      Comment


        #18
        Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
        I have a different point when it comes to 9v9 having 1 ref. I actually prefer this. At that age, if your biggest concern is close Offsides calls (they still get the easy ones right) then your focus is on the wrong thing. These same refs can learn offsides by being an assistant Ref for older games where one of their main focuses is offsides. I like the 1 ref as long as their is a Ref coach there. When there was 3 refs at that age they still blew offsides because any ref doing 9v9 is usually a new ref and not good. And people would get ticked off at the bad reffing, yell at the refs, and nobody got any better, instead just burned out the young refs. Now the Ref coach can help keep parents under control if they start getting to abusive, plus if your a coach you can go and point out when the ref makes a blunder and at least know they are going to be coached on that and hopefully improve.

        We all want good refs, but we aren't willing to recognize at the younger ages we are going to get terrible refs, and we need to accept that they will not be good, but they will get better, If we allow them to stay with it and get better.
        Remember. It's just not the players being trained.

        Comment


          #19
          Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
          I have a different point when it comes to 9v9 having 1 ref. I actually prefer this. At that age, if your biggest concern is close Offsides calls (they still get the easy ones right) then your focus is on the wrong thing. These same refs can learn offsides by being an assistant Ref for older games where one of their main focuses is offsides. I like the 1 ref as long as their is a Ref coach there. When there was 3 refs at that age they still blew offsides because any ref doing 9v9 is usually a new ref and not good. And people would get ticked off at the bad reffing, yell at the refs, and nobody got any better, instead just burned out the young refs. Now the Ref coach can help keep parents under control if they start getting to abusive, plus if your a coach you can go and point out when the ref makes a blunder and at least know they are going to be coached on that and hopefully improve.

          We all want good refs, but we aren't willing to recognize at the younger ages we are going to get terrible refs, and we need to accept that they will not be good, but they will get better, If we allow them to stay with it and get better.
          Part of the issue on close offsides - trying to teach kids the laws of the games, when the adults struggle mightily to call it right; outside state cup or finals of a tournament, way less concerned with impact on score than teaching kids how it works. Additionally, kids don't get that many looks at goal; hate, hate, seeing a valid opportunity at goal stopped because a ref misreads the game as offsides. Every single 9v9 game I've seen, there are a couple of offsides blown calls.

          The ref coach is a nice thing, and I've seen the interaction between coaches and senior officials as positive (sometimes senior official will acknowledge blown call, coach moves on). However, it is a good chunk of the ref dollars spent on senior refs for those games.

          US soccer does not allow (unlike hs soccer), but would be nice if the senior ref could ref on the field with junior, be in charge of managing difficult parents/coaches (honestly, very few ones at 9v9), mentor junior at high time and afterwards. Suggesting this because monitoring the entire field is not easy; 2 set of eyes trying to get calls right is better than 1 set of eyes.

          An alternative is that if it is close for offsides with 1 ref, tell refs to keep their whistles in their pocket. Have coaches help with out of bounds calls, other than state cup or tournament semis/finals (still think a 2nd or 3rd ref should be required for those few games).

          Comment


            #20
            Originally posted by Unregistered View Post

            We all want good refs, but we aren't willing to recognize at the younger ages we are going to get terrible refs, and we need to accept that they will not be good, but they will get better, If we allow them to stay with it and get better.
            Exactly. Many parent (and even coaches) can't conceive of that unfortunately. They think a local U11 game is frigging FIFA. Also, too often, young refs get little to no mentorship and followup training/observation. They do their training course and then are thrown to the wolves. It's no wonder so many quit.

            Comment


              #21
              Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
              Moving this over from another thread, as the subject is more than just about GPS:

              _____________________
              However, I really believe referees have a problem enforcing the laws of the game consistently in girls soccer. Way too many pushes from behind, high elbows, kicking of the goalies, not enough cards. Simply put, refs give too much benefit of the doubt to girls that they don't to boys.

              There may be some coaching issues as well - girls take longer to learn how to properly tackle or complete a legal charge. Makes referring harder.

              I also think girls are not as assertive enough in being their own advocate on the field. Through in this whole reverse sexism - parents kind of expect each other and coaches to be a little more polite than in the boys game.

              So it puts girls' coaches in a tough place. Players need advocates; seeing your players repeatedly get mauled gets old. Is it better for a coach to address their choice words towards the player (a minor), an opposing coach?

              ****** However, refs mailing it in for girls games is not acceptable. If refs won't enforce the laws of the game and it impacts player safety, not sure a coach should be silent.
              Bad parents are a problem
              Bad refs overall are a problem
              Most refs (good or bad) enforcing the laws of the game for boys games but not for girls is more than a problem - it’s unacceptable and should be remedied immediately by OYSA.

              Comment


                #22
                Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                Bad parents are a problem
                Bad refs overall are a problem
                Most refs (good or bad) enforcing the laws of the game for boys games but not for girls is more than a problem - it’s unacceptable and should be remedied immediately by OYSA.
                Referee decisions are extremely subjective. You have possible one million variables for every play. If you were in charge, what would be your steps to correct this?

                Comment


                  #23
                  I know the first thing I would do is focus on parents. Get them used to never ever making a comment to or about the refereeing.

                  This might help improve the quality of refereeing in the future. Right now, with the abuse most refs take, you are definitely reducing the number of people that want the job.

                  Training referees would help. But that is easier said than done. Training is expensive.

                  Comment


                    #24
                    Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                    I know the first thing I would do is focus on parents. Get them used to never ever making a comment to or about the refereeing.

                    This might help improve the quality of refereeing in the future. Right now, with the abuse most refs take, you are definitely reducing the number of people that want the job.

                    Training referees would help. But that is easier said than done. Training is expensive.
                    Gosh you're weak and this way of thinking is weak. You sound like you should be on CNN. "I would start by never telling anyone they aren't doing a good job because then they won't want to do it anymore. . . blah blah blah".

                    How about this? We pay referees more. People will put up with crap if there's enough money in it. This will expand the referee pool and result in higher caliber refs to choose from. It's basic economics really.

                    Comment


                      #25
                      Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                      Gosh you're weak and this way of thinking is weak. You sound like you should be on CNN. "I would start by never telling anyone they aren't doing a good job because then they won't want to do it anymore. . . blah blah blah".

                      How about this? We pay referees more. People will put up with crap if there's enough money in it. This will expand the referee pool and result in higher caliber refs to choose from. It's basic economics really.
                      How much would you have to get paid to become a referee?

                      I know a lot of people who have tried refereeing but they get sick of whiney parents that don't know the rules howling at them. Most did it because they love soccer. Not because they wanted to make money.

                      How much would it take to get you out there? I'll make sure I show up at all your games and scream "off sides!!" at every through ball and yell "what game are you watching!" every 90 seconds.

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                        Gosh you're weak and this way of thinking is weak. You sound like you should be on CNN. "I would start by never telling anyone they aren't doing a good job because then they won't want to do it anymore. . . blah blah blah".

                        How about this? We pay referees more. People will put up with crap if there's enough money in it. This will expand the referee pool and result in higher caliber refs to choose from. It's basic economics really.
                        I agree with this. Start paying center referees $300 per game and AR's $150 per game each. If I could work 8 games and get $2,400 in a weekend I'd do it. For that parents can yell whatever they want at me. I'd probably start yelling back, but that might fun.

                        Raise per team league fees by about $3,200 each team and that is only 2-300 per player per season.

                        Finally we have a solution that addresses the concern.

                        Comment


                          #27
                          Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                          I agree with this. Start paying center referees $300 per game and AR's $150 per game each. If I could work 8 games and get $2,400 in a weekend I'd do it. For that parents can yell whatever they want at me. I'd probably start yelling back, but that might fun.

                          Raise per team league fees by about $3,200 each team and that is only 2-300 per player per season.

                          Finally we have a solution that addresses the concern.
                          eight games per weekend is a lot. if you could pull it off you'd bag a cool ten thousand dollars a month during the season. that is some nice coin and you could get a new car. you'd probably have people fighting over games. the more demand the better the referees would be. not a bad side hustle. wonder if it would be possible to cash instead of a check. anyone know?

                          Comment


                            #28
                            Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                            How much would you have to get paid to become a referee?

                            I know a lot of people who have tried refereeing but they get sick of whiney parents that don't know the rules howling at them. Most did it because they love soccer. Not because they wanted to make money.

                            How much would it take to get you out there? I'll make sure I show up at all your games and scream "off sides!!" at every through ball and yell "what game are you watching!" every 90 seconds.
                            $50 per game. That should increase the referee pool considerably. Refs get yelled at during youth football and basketball games as well. This isn’t a soccer phenomenon. Getting yelled at doesn’t hurt. I promise. Referees have total authority to control the players, coaches and sidelines if they choose to excercise those options. Stop with this weak line of thinking. It’s contagious.

                            Comment


                              #29
                              Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                              $50 per game. That should increase the referee pool considerably. Refs get yelled at during youth football and basketball games as well. This isn’t a soccer phenomenon. Getting yelled at doesn’t hurt. I promise. Referees have total authority to control the players, coaches and sidelines if they choose to excercise those options. Stop with this weak line of thinking. It’s contagious.
                              Have you ventured out of the house since 1986?

                              There is a near crisis with a lack of referees for basketball. They are taking people all over the city that are not certified.

                              Football is the only sport that is not hurting for lack of referees. Of course on the football field you are separated from the whiney parents.

                              It has nothing to do with being weak. It has everything to do with not wanting to listen to whiney idiot parents who don't know the rules.

                              So you are saying for a $50 increase per game you would sign up? Let us know when your first game is and I will bring my bullhorn and cow bell and heckle every call you make.

                              Comment


                                #30
                                Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                                $50 per game. That should increase the referee pool considerably. Refs get yelled at during youth football and basketball games as well. This isn’t a soccer phenomenon. Getting yelled at doesn’t hurt. I promise. Referees have total authority to control the players, coaches and sidelines if they choose to excercise those options. Stop with this weak line of thinking. It’s contagious.
                                Easy for an adult to say. You've had time to mature and grow a thicker skin. Not the case with most 15 year olds. The sport needs youth refs so they can develop into adult refs. There aren't enough adult refs to go around and they generally cost more.

                                Comment

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