Propoganda Wars: Understanding TS Bias and Bashing

[Unregistered]

What has been going on over the last couple of years is directly related to these two lists. As the bigness of the college names has decreased so has the increase in attacks on the non ECNL players. It is all about the dispersal of talent.

Actually, its misstatements like yours that have caused the attacks. There has be no decrease in the bigness of names. What you had was a one year blip upward coupled with a fairly level 6 year trend.

[Unregistered]

Agree but those two clubs did make a pretty big deal about that blip, no?

[Unregistered]

Timeline
TS Fist MA thread - 5/16/2007
DAP Started - 2007
Red Bull League - 2007-2009
Encl Started - 2009
NEFC Formed - 2009
NEP Started - 2009
ECNL Clubs Drop Out of State Cups - 2011
DAP Moves to 10 Month Schedule - 2012
NE NPL Leagues Formed - 2013

Yearly posting data
2007 - Threads: 545 - Posts: 23,927 - Views: 1,895,556
2008 - Threads: 804 - Posts: 38,809 - Views: 2,209,014
2009 - Threads: 914 - Posts: 42,264 - Views: 2,770,797
2010 - Threads: 1,306 - Posts: 64,159 - Views: 4,348,321
2011 - Threads: 1,254 - Posts: 62,205 - Views: 3,866,099
2012 - Threads: 1,047 - Posts: 55,616 - Views: 3,541,823
2013 - Threads: 1,033 - Posts: 60,453 - Views: 3,575,314
2014 - Threads: 188 - Posts: 9,244 - Views: 533,248

Age group posting data
U18 - Threads: 60 - Posts: 1,857 - Views: 113,444
U17 - Threads: 88 - Posts: 5,606 - Views: 341,869
U16 - Threads: 75 - Posts: 8,577 - Views: 458,378
U15 - Threads: 87 - Posts: 8,381 - Views: 425,646
U14 - Threads: 162 - Posts: 20,375 - Views: 1,124,557
U13 - Threads: 173 - Posts: 20,828 - Views: 1,282,017
U12 - Threads: 146 - Posts: 21,684 - Views: 1,196,478
U11 - Threads: 125 - Posts: 17,634 - Views: 822,475
U10 - Threads: 69 - Posts: 4,508 - Views: 298,835

Club posting data
NEFC - Threads: 161 - Posts: 9,252 - Views: 680,743 - Attacking: 54%
Scorpions/Breakers - Threads: 144 - Posts: 10,860 - Views: 813,873 - Attacking: 40%
Stars - Threads: 133 - Posts: 7,533 - Views: 502,958 - Attacking: 32%
MPS - Threads: 109 - Posts: 7,646 - Views: 484,142 - Attacking: 44%
Revs - Threads: 76 - Posts: 5,939 - Views: 352,067 - Attacking: 34%
Bolts - Threads: 74 - Posts: 4,071 - Views: 233,286 - Attacking: 36%
Blazers - Threads: 34 - Posts: 1,345 - Views: 91,411 - Attacking: 68%

League posting data
MAPLE - Threads: 226 - Posts: 12,275 - Views: 733,628 - Attacking: 39%
DAP - Threads: 127 - Posts: 11,722 - Views: 628,457 - Attacking: 25%
NEP - Threads: 127 - Posts: 6,642 - Views: 421,552 - Attacking: 54%
Region 1 - Threads: 115 - Posts: 5,628 - Views: 420,453 - Attacking: 18%
ECNL - Threads: 92 - Posts: 8,298 - Views: 454,758 - Attacking: 42%
MASC - Threads: 21 - Posts: 295 - Views: 22,745 - Attacking: 29%
NPL - Threads: 20 - Posts: 1,225 - Views: 62,310 - Attacking: 45%
Super Y - Threads: 20 - Posts: 1,025 - Views: 66,695 - Attacking: 15%

ID Program posting data
ODP - Threads: 111 - Posts: 7,466 - Views: 543,648 - Attacking: 32%
ID2 - Threads: 11 - Posts: 318 - Views: 24,527 - Attacking: 9%
NTC - Threads: 16 - Posts: 632 - Views: 48,871 - Attacking: 0%
PDP - Threads: 3 - Posts: 227 - Views: 13,151 - Attacking: 0%

Scorpions
First Thread - Scorpions Soccer Continues it's U18 Fee Structure for 07-08 (6/7/2007)
First Positive Thread - Congratulations to Region 1 Champions - Scorpions U-14 (7/17/2009)
First Negative Thread - Could the Scorpions empire be crumbling?? (9/30/2009)

Bolts
First Thread - Bolts Tryouts (7/7/2007)
First Positive Thread - SoccerAmerica rankings: Bolts Boys #10 (2/9/2008)
First Negative Thread - Bolts parents worst in country (2/12/2009)

Stars
First Thread - Good luck Stars tomorrow (8/1/2007)
First Positive Thread - Good luck Stars tomorrow (8/1/2007)
First Negative Thread - Stars lose every game today (7/9/2009)

MPS
First Thread - Monitoring The MPS Impact (4/17/2008)
First Positive Thread - MPS U16 and U17 Boys Going to Nationals! (7/4/2008)
First Negative Thread - Will MPS Win a SC Title This Spring? (1/28/2009)

Blazers
First Thread - BU17 Tournament Results FC Blazers win Nomads (4/11/2008)
First Positive Thread - BU17 Tournament Results FC Blazers win Nomads (4/11/2008)
First Negative Thread - What is up with the Blazers? (6/10/2009)

Revs
First Thread - New England Revolution Youth Academy (2/3/2009)
First Positive Thread - Revs DA player to Malaga? (8/21/2010)
First Negative Thread - WHY DON'T THE REVS EXPAND THEIR YOUTH ACADEMY TEAMS (2/19/2009)

NEFC
First Thread - NEFC: Must be a joke (7/17/2009)
First Positive Thread - In 4 years NEFC will be the only show in town (10/7/2009)
First Negative Thread - NEFC: Must be a joke (7/17/2009)

Loser ! What did your nurse take your finger paintings away from you today?

[Unregistered]

One thing that is quite disturbing is how the attacks have started to become personal. Back in the early days of TS it was very common to read congratulatory threads about teams and in particular the state's top end players. It was very common to post links to press releases and details of their exploits in ODP and with the National Team. Basically all of these players were Stars and Scorpions and there was never really any criticism of the players, let alone their parents. The tone of that very clearly changed in 2009 and now those sort of players and more specifically their parents get openly attacked.

A perfect example of how disgusting this has become is occurring right now in the "U14 Girls Rankings". What it appears that happened is someone criticized the Scorpions U17 recruiting success in the "u17 Scorpions ECNL" thread and the next thing you know a series of searing critiques appear targeting the parent of an NEFC U14 national team hopeful. It really seems all too closely related to be coincidental. If you all will remember, another parent from this same NEFC team was also soundly criticized last spring for posting a link to a local newspaper story about her child going to a national team camp. Similar to this situation, that child's parent was also portrayed as wildly obsessive and arrogant then soundly criticized in a thread. This is distinctly different treatment than the Mewis sisters, Bock, and Andrews historically received her on TS and it is pretty clear that their club affiliation has more to do with than any parent's personality.

I do not think there is any correlation between the U17 and U14 threads and think it is irresponsible to even try to connect the two. The Scorps one seems to linked to the character who every 4-6 weeks or so goes on a rampage against them, usually resurrecting old threads and targeting this age group in particular. He has very distinctive markings in his writings which makes him easy to spot and he has been doing it for years. The U14 thing has been ongoing since last spring against that one Mom, but that team/parent group in particular has been rising the ire of other team's parent's going back to at least U10 on this board.

Moreover, to even compare that player to the Mewis', Andrews and Brock is beyond comprehension. There have been many dominate players at the younger ages around here over the years that did not sustain the same level year in and year out, whether due to injuries, burnout or body change or whatever. Many of those are still playing now, just off the NT radar. This kid isn't even in HS yet and you even making those comparisons is somewhat disgusting and shows an agenda.

As an old timer on this forum, it seems to me that every other year has an extremely over zealous parent group, that peaks in the U14 year and then trails off. Not sure on the current U12 group yet to see if the trend continues.

[Unregistered]

Agree but those two clubs did make a pretty big deal about that blip, no?

Why wouldn't they and why wouldn't any other business (not club soccer org, but a business) do the same? Have you ever worked in the private sector a day in your life?

I really don't get this argument that a few years ago Stars and Scorps made a big deal about some significant power teams they had. It's not like it didn't happen. Should the Yankees not say they are 27 time World Champs because only 1 happened since 2000? or the Celtics 17 times because they only have 1 in the past 30 years? Am I missing something here?

[Unregistered]

Why wouldn't they and why wouldn't any other business (not club soccer org, but a business) do the same? Have you ever worked in the private sector a day in your life?

I really don't get this argument that a few years ago Stars and Scorps made a big deal about some significant power teams they had. It's not like it didn't happen. Should the Yankees not say they are 27 time World Champs because only 1 happened since 2000? or the Celtics 17 times because they only have 1 in the past 30 years? Am I missing something here?

Exactly. This is a business, and publicizing your results when they are especially strong is only natural. That does NOT make it hype or spin; it's just a business letting customers know that they've been successful - just like a car company touts "Best in Class" results, crash safety data, re-sale value, etc.

The flip side is that the competition will jump on you if/when the results start to slip a bit. That's natural, too.

[Unregistered]

Exactly. This is a business, and publicizing your results when they are especially strong is only natural. That does NOT make it hype or spin; it's just a business letting customers know that they've been successful - just like a car company touts "Best in Class" results, crash safety data, re-sale value, etc.

The flip side is that the competition will jump on you if/when the results start to slip a bit. That's natural, too.

So why do all the Stars/Scorpions Bo Bo's then feel the need to complain about their treatment here and then use it as justification for all their nastiness?

[Unregistered]

So why do all the Stars/Scorpions Bo Bo's then feel the need to complain about their treatment here and then use it as justification for all their nastiness?

You are asking why they should use other people's nastiness as justification for nastiness - really???

[perspective]

There was a post last week where someone mentioned that there is a pro Stars bias here on TS that got me started thinking about how the clubs use it to control their public persona and marketing message. After literally culling through all of the 7,091 threads created in the Massachusetts forum through the middle of last week I found some pretty interesting things:

#1-The old line clubs (Bolts, Scorpions, Stars) have less threads attacking them than the upstarts do (NEFC, MPS, Blazers)

#2-ODP gets attacked significantly more than any of the other ID programs

#3-The US Club Soccer leagues (ECNL, NEP, NPL) get attacked significantly more than the US Youth Soccer leagues (MAPLE, Region 1, MASC) do. Relatively speaking DAP gets attacked far less than either of those groups do.

#4-Threads about the middle school years (U12-14) are significantly more active than the high school years. There is a remarkable 67% drop off in page views between threads about U13 age groups and the U15 age group.

#5-The was a remarkable (and disgusting) negative shift in tone on TS that really first appeared in 2009. Prior to 2009 most of the threads where generally informative in nature and it was quite accepted to create threads that applauded club and team as well as individual success. Today, any such posts is treated extremely harshly.

This is what happens when someone decides to do some "research" and then presents "results" as "fact" instead of making transparent his or her interpretative bias. Most of the above is not just wildly biased but also factually quite wrong. One of the most glaring untruths above is that all was nice and rosy on TS until 2009. In real truth, the most prolific and prominent posters either left or went underground PRECISELY BECAUSE TS was just as it is today. No difference at all.

#1 above is also untrue. The second part of that equation (bashing the alleged upstarts (who really were only upstarts in the sense of having a new uniform) doesn't happen unless the first part (so-called "old-line clubs getting bashed) happens first. MPS an "upstart"? Really???

#2 is not really significant at all since hardly anyone knows there are any other ID programs so of course ODP has gotten by far the most negative (and positive) attention.

#4 does not spell out the intended implication, but whatever it was is probably wrong. There are any number of factors that explain a drop-off in posting from U13 to U15, most of them having nothing to do with recruiting, and some of that effect erroneous because of not including high school threads and threads like commitmentsss (and many others) in the calculation.

The premise cited as fact in the first paragraph referenced as the impetus for engaging in the "research" also is dubious. It's not a given at all that most of TS is a function of clubs leveraging TS as marketing, although one group did openly claim to do this. Most of what has happened here over the years doesn't rate as marketing but rather as low level "hockey mom" huffing and puffing about my kid is better than yours. A little too primitive to count as marketing.

[perspective]

One thing that is quite disturbing is how the attacks have started to become personal. Back in the early days of TS it was very common to read congratulatory threads about teams and in particular the state's top end players. It was very common to post links to press releases and details of their exploits in ODP and with the National Team. Basically all of these players were Stars and Scorpions and there was never really any criticism of the players, let alone their parents. The tone of that very clearly changed in 2009 and now those sort of players and more specifically their parents get openly attacked.

A perfect example of how disgusting this has become is occurring right now in the "U14 Girls Rankings". What it appears that happened is someone criticized the Scorpions U17 recruiting success in the "u17 Scorpions ECNL" thread and the next thing you know a series of searing critiques appear targeting the parent of an NEFC U14 national team hopeful. It really seems all too closely related to be coincidental. If you all will remember, another parent from this same NEFC team was also soundly criticized last spring for posting a link to a local newspaper story about her child going to a national team camp. Similar to this situation, that child's parent was also portrayed as wildly obsessive and arrogant then soundly criticized in a thread. This is distinctly different treatment than the Mewis sisters, Bock, and Andrews historically received her on TS and it is pretty clear that their club affiliation has more to do with than any parent's personality.

Grossly irresponsible inferences in this post. First of all, even if there was something to U17 Scorps folks retaliating in a U14 thread (which there is no basis for at all), then what the above argues is that bashing the Scorps for D1 commitments was perfectly OK and the only transgression was what happened in the U14 thread.

As for the comparison of superstars, then and now, what some of us appreciated was how the parents of the superstars in the past carried themselves (i.e. with class, dignity, and humility...and mostly silence...and not acting like "hockey moms" engaging in below juvenile woofing on the sidelines and in soccer forums).

[Unregistered]

Grossly irresponsible inferences in this post. First of all, even if there was something to U17 Scorps folks retaliating in a U14 thread (which there is no basis for at all), then what the above argues is that bashing the Scorps for D1 commitments was perfectly OK and the only transgression was what happened in the U14 thread.

As for the comparison of superstars, then and now, what some of us appreciated was how the parents of the superstars in the past carried themselves (i.e. with class, dignity, and humility...and mostly silence...and not acting like "hockey moms" engaging in below juvenile woofing on the sidelines and in soccer forums).

This new guy brings so much more to the table than you. Your shtick is getting old. At least the new guy brings facts and figures. You have unsubstantiated opinion. No contest here.

We should call the new guy Perceptive.

[Unregistered]

Here is your answer. A lot of venom seems to get hurled at NEFC and there is pretty clear line that that shows when the dispute started. First blood was pretty clearly drawn by Scorpions. Here are the first 10 threads ever started about NEFC on TS. Basically 8 of them invited criticism of the club.

NEFC: Must be a joke - 7/17/2009
NEFC recruiting practice- 9/11/2009
NEFC in Big Trouble??- 9/11/2009
When is the NEFC hearing?- 10/20/2009
When will NEFC file the lawsuit against the parent? - 9/12/2009
Happy with NEFC - 9/12/2009
NEFC Week 1 Predictions - 9/17/2009
NEFC parents are answering the call - 9/11/2009
NEFC killed JFK - 9/12/2009
NEFC love the NY Yankees and hate puppies - 9/13/2009

The first negative attack on the Scorpions started with these threads a few months later.

Jited Scorpions Parents Club Baby Seals In Their Spare Time - 9/13/2009
Could the Scorpions empire be crumbling?? - 9/30/2009
When is ther Scorpions Hearing? - 10/16/2009

The start of all this coincides with BB & PM moving to NEFC along with most of the Scorpions Youth Acadamey in the Spring of 2009. It is pretty clear that this was not one group of parents attacking another but rather one group of coaches arguing with another. Here are the remaining 7 of the first 10 attack threads aimed at Scorpions

Scorpions are breaking up! - 1/25/2010
Scorpian Coach Language - 11/18/2010
NEFC taking a bulk of the Scorpion kids. - 12/15/2010
Scorps declining? - 4/22/2010
scorpions downhill - 5/26/2010
What happened to the Scorpions U14 Girls? - 6/2/2010
U13 Scorps @ Delco? - 6/9/2010

Just to be fair, here are the first 10 attack threads specifically aimed at the Stars. It is pretty clear that criticism directed at the Stars came quite a bit later with the ramp up of the ECNL and in many ways is tamer than what was going on between the Scorpions and NEFC

Stars lose every game today - 7/9/2009
NEFC taking down Stars?- 10/7/2009
The not so promising future of Stars - 6/10/2010
Stars chances at Nationals? - 6/22/2010
Stars Parent apology - 6/22/2010
Disappointing Stars Girls Teams - 7/10/2010
Stars "poor us" pity post - 9/2/2010
why not go to Stars? - 9/2/2010
U13 Stars United choose the weakest bracket - 9/5/2010
Blazers or Stars who's worse? - 10/15/2010

The interesting thing about the tone of the Stars posts is in the early days of TS they most definitely liked to draw attention to their success with posts like these below and that in the early days it was quite common to read threads like these. Could you imagine if one of these clubs started a post like one of these today?

Good luck Stars tomorrow -8/1/2007
Will Stars win in every age group? - 6/16/2008
Stars go to another National Final - 7/27/2008
The Unbeatable Juggernaut that is U13 girls Stars - 9/30/2008

Pretty much all right there. What was said and when it was said.

[perspective]

Pretty much all right there. What was said and when it was said.

Nice try.

[perspective]

This new guy brings so much more to the table than you. Your shtick is getting old. At least the new guy brings facts and figures. You have unsubstantiated opinion. No contest here.

We should call the new guy Perceptive.

Sure...whatever. I guess you just really liked the narrative because I missed your critical analysis of the "new guy's" data, or for that matter, any challenge of the actual content in my post. Let's start with a "new guy" wouldn't be an expert in a position to opine on how things were pre-2009, or have a ready working knowledge of the BB/PM change in clubs.

[perspective]

The interesting thing about the tone of the Stars posts is in the early days of TS they most definitely liked to draw attention to their success with posts like these below and that in the early days it was quite common to read threads like these. Could you imagine if one of these clubs started a post like one of these today?

Good luck Stars tomorrow -8/1/2007
Will Stars win in every age group? - 6/16/2008
Stars go to another National Final - 7/27/2008
The Unbeatable Juggernaut that is U13 girls Stars - 9/30/2008

Just reviewed all of these alleged "nice" threads from back in the day. All hatchet jobs or clearly troll set-ups. Nice try. It's a b&%ch when someone actually does do the homework.